The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 120

EyeShotFirst:

The biggest problem with making a prequel is when the casting director goes for who looks the most like the character in the original.

Then you have a movie like Star Trek with that horrible Chris Pine. He didn't even bother to try to be William Shatner. He had the look fairly close but really didn't capture the essence of William Shatner's performance (it isn't that hard LOL).

Sorry, ESF, but that is absolute nonsense. First of all, I have met several massive casting directors in my time, I even worked for Mary Selway (god rest her mighty soul) and I don't know any casting director that would ever consider an actor on looks first. Never.

And as for Chris Pine, you're absolutely right, he didn't even bother trying to be Shatner. He was trying to be Kirk. Sorry for sounding angry, but you're entirely missing the point if you think he should be trying to be Shatner. That's something a C-grade actor might try to do, an impersonation. That's like saying all the five Bonds since Connery have failed because they didn't impersonate him. While some are better than others, and all very distinct, they are all still James Bond.

Octorox, I agree with you. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Shatner. But I think people remember all the wrong aspects of his performances, when he's actually given some very, very good ones. Look at him in Star Trek II, his lighter touch in Star Trek IV, his anger in Star Trek VI. And then look at his performance as Denny Crane in Boston Legal. He deserved both Emmys he got for that character, and who would have thought he'd be in his mid-70s and giving the best performance of his entire career.

Darth Venal said:

And then look at his performance as Denny Crane in Boston Legal.

LOL - never thought I'd read the words "Boston Legal" in a PT thread.

There is a lot of Kirk which is Shatner and Pine still managed to get those aspects by trying to play Kirk. His body language is very much like Shatner even though he isn't trying to emulate him because so much of the character was defined by the orginator of the role (shame about the film being so-so).

McGregor resembles Sir Alec's performance more in ROTS because he seems to be playing Obi-Wan more (a character created and largely defined by how he was portrayed in ANH).

The rest of the time he seems to be reading his lines while doing mental arithmetic only stopping to smile or frown on cue (the same with Neeson, Portman and just about everyone).

Jake and Hayden played themselves (not their characters) very well and I didn't like either of them.

LOL. You might as well have done, seeing as you didn't post anything about Star Wars. PM me and tell me what you think. :-)

Bingowings said:

Not bad, he looks enough like him to get the idea across and he is a fun actor who could have given the role the necessary coldness.

Nobody seems to care that Ewan doesn't look or even sound exactly like a younger Sir Alec.

If they were serious about putting Tarkin in the prequels they should of written a role for him and hired someone like Nighy who could have played him without OTT make-up.

I actually thought he was nailing Alec. Ewan's performance in all the movies is honestly why I continued through the entire trilogy. Which brings me to another point... What an amazing cast. I mean really. That was one thing that wasn't lacking... However, if this had been the first time I had seen some of these people act, I would have thought they were horrible actors. Was George that horrible of a director. I don't want to hear "It's because they had to act to green screen." Sky Captain while not perfect, still had great acting despite the fact that it was almost entirely CGI... So, what was his problem here?

Christopher Lee appeared to give an uncharacteristically flat performance and he is theatrically trained, worked a lot on radio and has worked well on other green screen heavy films.

Maybe he gave a good performance that was massaged to death in the editing or not very well photographed (we don't have all the footage so it's impossible to tell).

mrbenja0618:

Sky Captain while not perfect, still had great acting despite the fact that it was almost entirely CGI... So, what was his problem here?

I think a lot of people will strongly disagree with you, for exactly the same reasons the actors were wooden in the PT. While Neeson can hold his own, you can't be comparing anyone else in the PT with Paltrow, Jolie and even Law? Ewan McGregor, again, a top notch guy, but he is really, really not that great an actor. And Natalie Portman is only good when she has a strong director. So yes, the complaint about green screens and Lucas being a lousy actor's director are perfectly valid.

Bingowings:

Christopher Lee appeared to give an uncharacteristically flat performance and he is theatrically trained, worked a lot on radio and has worked well on other green screen heavy films.

Maybe he gave a good performance that was massaged to death in the editing or not very well photographed (we don't have all the footage so it's impossible to tell).

Well, he only really has one scene where he's talking with another actor at length, when Obi Wan is strung up. The rest of his scenes are either against CG characters or just odd lines with no real structure in the middle of action scenes. I think his class still shows out in the scene with McGregor. Other than that, he doesn't really register much because his character is totally undeveloped. In the Lord of the Rings movies, he does at least act with real actors in all his scenes, and pretty good ones at that.

Darth Venal said:

Bingowings said:

Christopher Lee appeared to give an uncharacteristically flat performance and he is theatrically trained, worked a lot on radio and has worked well on other green screen heavy films.

Maybe he gave a good performance that was massaged to death in the editing or not very well photographed (we don't have all the footage so it's impossible to tell).

Well, he only really has one scene where he's talking with another actor at length, when Obi Wan is strung up. The rest of his scenes are either against CG characters or just odd lines with no real structure in the middle of action scenes. I think his class still shows out in the scene with McGregor. Other than that, he doesn't really register much because his character is totally undeveloped. In the Lord of the Rings movies, he does at least act with real actors in all his scenes, and pretty good ones at that.

 

There were more scenes with Dooku, some of which have never seen the light of day and even a good performance can be made to look flat by bad camera work and sloppy editing. I would really love to see all the footage most of the actors are really talented and some are used to acting with minimal or no scenery. Lee's story readings (no scenery, no other actors) are also often brilliant so I find it hard to believe that green screenery is entirely to blame.

Bingowings said:

If anything it's the PT that have hidden or ghost writers, Carrie Fisher and Tom Stoppard apparently contributed to the PT.

The scriptwriting credits for the OT if anything point the opposite way giving him less credit than he could claim (though he didn't write the novelisation credited to him that was Alan Dean Foster).

I've been thinking about the prophecy regarding the chosen one.

I know this is seen as unpopular to some people but I think it's one of the elements that don't work because of it's execution.

I loved the way that the television adaptation of I Claudius uses the Delphic prophecy to bookend the series and I also like the idea of assuming that a prophecy points one way when it may point in the opposite direction.

A scene where we see an ancient recording of the prophecy being played before the council and some of the council like Dooku and Qui-Gon reading portents in events like the invasion of Naboo could sell the idea better and sow the seeds of doubt that Palpatine would later exploit.

No, only Stoppard. And that was for ROTS and it was some small bits.

Fisher was also rumored to have worked on dialogue.

Bingowings said:

Darth Venal said:

Bingowings said:

Christopher Lee appeared to give an uncharacteristically flat performance and he is theatrically trained, worked a lot on radio and has worked well on other green screen heavy films.

Maybe he gave a good performance that was massaged to death in the editing or not very well photographed (we don't have all the footage so it's impossible to tell).

Well, he only really has one scene where he's talking with another actor at length, when Obi Wan is strung up. The rest of his scenes are either against CG characters or just odd lines with no real structure in the middle of action scenes. I think his class still shows out in the scene with McGregor. Other than that, he doesn't really register much because his character is totally undeveloped. In the Lord of the Rings movies, he does at least act with real actors in all his scenes, and pretty good ones at that.

 

There were more scenes with Dooku, some of which have never seen the light of day and even a good performance can be made to look flat by bad camera work and sloppy editing. I would really love to see all the footage most of the actors are really talented and some are used to acting with minimal or no scenery. Lee's story readings (no scenery, no other actors) are also often brilliant so I find it hard to believe that green screenery is entirely to blame.

I am really going to bite my tongue here because Ben Burtt is such an amazing artist. He created classic sounds and everything in all the SW films, all of them.

BUT......the AOTC's final act was a complete **** up. I don't know who butchered the score in the third act and buried it in the final mix, but it was a complete shambles in the film's final act. Whole portions of William's original score were replaced with retreads from TPM....when you could hear them.

But I don't blame Burtt. He's not the one who made the final call on that.

edit Lest I sound too hard on Burtt(which is not my intent at all), I loved Wall E. He helped make that film the gem it is. I'm so glad he's at Pixar now.

Bingowings said:

Fisher was also rumored to have worked on dialogue.

That was just a rumor. It never happened.

Fair enough but still I can't help but wonder what a Star Wars prequel trilogy written by Tom Stoppard (to Lucas' outline) would have been like.

Bingowings said:

Fair enough but still I can't help but wonder what a Star Wars prequel trilogy written by Tom Stoppard (to Lucas' outline) would have been like.

Well, the opera scene might be a clue.

shanerjedi said:

Bingowings said:

Fair enough but still I can't help but wonder what a Star Wars prequel trilogy written by Tom Stoppard (to Lucas' outline) would have been like.

Well, the opera scene might be a clue.

 Definitely, he would have made all those council/senate scenes less stuffy and the romance much more believable, he is one of my favorite writers.

We can make the romance work more by CUTTING two-thirds of it out. Really.

There are only two aspects of the romance that don't work, the words and the pictures :-D

Once again a redub as well as an edit would push it further but we'd still have to look at Hayden's face.

Bingowings said:

There are only two aspects of the romance that don't work, the words and the pictures :-D

Once again a redub as well as an edit would push it further but we'd still have to look at Hayden's face.

Trooperman's redo Shroud of the Dark Side had some good reordering and trims of existing scenes.

I think the romance in AOTC can be salvaged, if we use the deleted scenes on the DVD. Sure, those aren't *that* great, but I think those scenes are a lot more natural than what we got in the final movie. Here is how I would edit it:

- Cut the scene aboard the refugee freighter. Anakin comes on way to strong here, and Padme is obviously uncomfortable with it.

- Insert the extended arrival on Naboo. Anakin and Padme just talk in this scene, and we actually get to know them, especially Padme, a little better. I also like that it alluded to what happened between TPM and AOTC, which helps to connect these movies a little better.

- Cut their argument in front of the Queen. Just end the scene with Padme saying she'll stay in the lake country.

- Insert the scene at Padme's parents' house. It's a little cheesy, so it could be cut down a little, but overall I think it's a cute little scene. Especially the second part in the kitchen does a lot for Padme's character and the lovestory overall: Padme is falling for him, everyone is seeing it, but she is still in denial herself.

- Insert the scene in Padme's bedroom. Again, it gives a little more insight in Padme's character, and I like the contrast with the earlier packing scene on Coruscant. I would cut this scene down a little too, end it with Padme telling the story of how all the people she saved died, to make the scene a little less 'sweet' and to remind us that Anakin and Padme's relationship is just as doomed.

- Take out the kiss when they arrive at the lake house. I think this scene is best served with just establishing where they are, and then fade in to the meadow scene, without the Shaak riding of course. That would also help pacing issues, since there are more scenes with Anakin and Padme than with Obi-Wan on Kamino. Ending the meadow scene with Anakin's view on politics gives it a nice bit of foreshadowing.

- Cut as much of the fireplace scene as possible. There is a bit when Anakin is moving forward and Padme backs away. I was thinking that we add some whispered "Padme" to that shot, we could use that as Anakin thinking he can kiss Padme now, which would be kind of logical, since we built up their relationship a little better now.
Their first kiss should be in the arena, it's the right place for Padme to finally admit she has feelings for him.

If we build Anakin and Padme's relationship up like that, it would also help to feel more sympathy for Anakin when his mother dies, and when he doesn't tell Padme about the Tusken slaughter (which in my opinion he shouldn't).

Also, with this build up, Anakin is a lot nicer of a person, making the Tusken slaughter more shocking. When he doesn't tell Padme about it, we have our first indication that he is really f*cked up. This could turn Anakin in a more tragic character, who is always struggling with what he did (as we see in ROTS).

The line is cheesy but the kiss itself has a nice A Tale Of Two Cities feel to it, editing or altering the spoken lines could go some way to restoring the idea. Putting back the declaration of sentence of death scene would add to the comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZuPQlBxCKI

I might edit AotC so that the stripey cat kills Padme, just for saying that line.

And the saga ends there. Let's call it an alternate timeline. Gah.