C3PX said:
EyeShotFirst said:
But really, I think it is better for Anchorhead to just end it with the OT. He is a happier guy for it. I wish I could be that way. But no, I am OCD, I have to see something complete. I love the Beatles, so I have all of there albums. I love Star Wars so I have them all. I wish I could love only one thing.
I agree with this. Anchorhead didn't miss anything by not wasting his time or money on watching any of the prequels beyond The Phantom Menace. That movie was an absolute dog, he had no reason to expect the second one to be any better. I think he may have mentioned elsewhere that he figured he'd go see it if it was met with fantastic reviews and everyone talking about how wonderful it was, but that was not the case.
I don't really get the mentality of watching things that suck so you better understand how they suck, or even the need to see something through to the end even when you don't enjoy it. These things exist to entertain us, if we are not entertained, why even bother? Should I go see everything that sucks and also happens to be mildly related to something I love just so I can understand how it sucks and be able to compare the two? As if that would somehow benefit me in someway. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I have only seen AOTC two times I think, and I feel that is far too many times. Fortunately I only vaguely remember that films, and I certainly don't minds its memory slipping deeper and deeper into the obscure corners of my brain. I really cannot imagine any way how I am better off having seen that film.
VINH, don't you think you might be riding Anchorhead a little too hard? It is perfectly fine he thinks Return of the Jedi is crap, he has explained to you why he doesn't like it, and you have written off those reason as irrelevant or inadequate. There is really nowhere else for this particular branch of discussion to go. I know you want to engage the subject more indepth, but I don't think Anchorhead wants to play ball with you on this one. He has said his piece and heard yours, and being the old wise sage type figure my mind's eye probably quite inaccurately precieves him to be, I doubt he will make another post on the subject.
Now, with that said, to step into the conversation myself, I don't think I like Return of the Jedi half as much as you do, but I also seem to like it a good deal more than Anchorhead did. To me it is kind of a mixed bag, on one hand it has some of my absolute favorite parts of the OT, such as the speeder bike chase, the throne room finale, the space battle...*cough* Leia is a gold bikini *cough*, and on the other hand it also contains the parts I personally feel are the absolute worst in the trilogy (I think we have already discussed these at length). To me it certainly isn't worth throwing out the baby with the bath water on ROTJ. I can tolerate choking on a little cheese and fluff in order to enjoy the delicious steak that comes with it.
I don't really get the mentality of watching things that suck so you better understand how they suck, or even the need to see something through to the end even when you don't enjoy it. These things exist to entertain us, if we are not entertained, why even bother? Should I go see everything that sucks and also happens to be mildly related to something I love just so I can understand how it sucks and be able to compare the two? As if that would somehow benefit me in someway. It just doesn't make sense to me.
There's a lot more to be gotten from movies than light entertaiment. Analysis of a movie to tease out its mentality and figure out how it does things can be quite fascinating. And who says it's not entertaining to analyze how the films fuck up and laugh at their awful screw-ups? And the prequels are big for me no matter how much I dislike them, because they're where the Star Wars I love gets conspicuously fucked over and they're what we got instead of the long-promised other Star wars films we wanted all those years. They're a big issue. So I find it relevant to understand them and how they go wrong. And if I'm going to criticise them, I should know the material I'm criticising. You may feel there's no benefit in better knowing the stuff that ruined the franchise we love, but I do find benefit in such knowledge and understanding.
VINH, don't you think you might be riding Anchorhead a little too hard? It is perfectly fine he thinks Return of the Jedi is crap, he has explained to you why he doesn't like it, and you have written off those reason as irrelevant or inadequate.
I wrote them off as inadequate as proof that the film sucks, but I readily acknowledge that they're perfectly good as proof that he doesn't like the film. And it's perfectly reasonable for me to write them off as inadequate in defense of the film I love, as I do feel they are inadequate. He is entitled to dislike ROTJ all he likes, but if he implies that his reasons for disliking it are proof that it is a bad movie then I have a right to defend it against that criticism.
I don't see how I ever rode him too hard. I merely defended ROTJ against his criticism of it and defended my position that common criticsms of it are unfounded and unjust. Also, in my last post, I had to defend and clarify what I was doing, seeing as he seemed to be saying I was saying something I wasn't. And I disagreed with him about what we were both saying, because I didn't share his view of the discussion and I felt the need to make my view of it known. But I don't see that I rode him hard. I thought my behavior was quite reasonable in the situation and quite restrained. I don't feel I was the aggressive one in that discussion.
On the other hand, I'm inclined to feel he rode me a bit too hard, with his unfounded accusations of trolling and baiting. Earlier on, he started his discussion with me on the ROTJ topic with what I felt was an angry and unnecessarily aggressive tone (though he denied that), but I still didn't expect accusations of trolling and baiting later on, as I felt I was being perfectly civil. I don't feel I wronged him anywhere on this board, but I do feel I have been wronged. I was pretty shocked and offended when I saw that accusation of trolling and baiting.
There is really nowhere else for this particular branch of discussion to go. I know you want to engage the subject more indepth, but I don't think Anchorhead wants to play ball with you on this one. He has said his piece and heard yours, and being the old wise sage type figure my mind's eye probably quite inaccurately precieves him to be, I doubt he will make another post on the subject.
And that is fine with me. My last response to him does not require any response from him. I was merely responding to what he said to me, as is my right. What he said to me needed answering.
And to be honest, I don't know if I'd reply to another aggressive post from Anchorhead. I don't come here for the arguments. I recently left a thread on this board because a poster was getting unnecessarily aggressive with me. I don't intend to leave this thread, but I may avoid replying to anybody who is repeatedly aggressive with me.
(Edit: Yes I asked him why he wouldn't see the later two prequels and tried to convince him to see them, but I don't consider that to be the same debate, because it's going off on a tangent. There was nothing hostile in my attempt to convince him to see them, merely a conviction that people are better off with knowledge than without. Nor was there any hostility in asking him why he wouldn't see them, just an interest in understanding his motivations. But if he doesn't want to discuss that stuff that's his right.)