Anchorhead said:
Vaderisnothayden said:
Not successfully demonstrated, not backed up with examples that prove the point.
There are plenty of examples in this thread (and others) of people's reasons for feeling the way they do. No need for me to quote them all.
And for the record, people's examples of what they dislike are not incorrect, myth, cliche', etc - they're people's examples of what they dislike.People's opinions of a film - of anything - are not incorrect. If someone doesn't dig Eggs Benedict, they really don't dig it - it's not a myth or a cliche - it's a meal they don't care to eat. Even if it's your favorite meal, it doesn't mean the people who don't like it are wrong.
You liking Return doesn't mean my reasons for disliking it are cliche - it means that in 1983 I didn't like the film. I've given you my reasons and I assure you, they are correct - they're actually the reasons I don't like it. They're not final say on what the film is - they're my reasons for not liking it.
You're appreciation of the film doesn't render my dislike of it as incorrect. You can rest assured that no matter how many times you tell me my opinion is incorrect - it's not. I've disliked Return for 26 years. That dislike is genuine.
...the later two prequels (which you really should see before you make generalizations about the prequels).
Regarding my not having seen the last two prequels or the SEs - I always preface my limited comments on them with the statement that I haven't seen them and that I can only base my opinions on the one prequel I have seen.
Re your ewok picture, picking on one creature that appears only briefly and is a very minor part of the film does not work as an argument to condemn the whole film
It doesn't have to work as an argument to condemn the whole film - it only has to work as one of the reasons I dislike the film.
V - I find some of your comments and posts to be very interesting & insightful. My problem isn't with you or your defense, enjoyment, and feelings regarding Return. My problem is you continually telling me that my thoughts & opinions are incorrect. They aren't. With God as my witness - I honestly don't like Return. I was disappointed by it about 30 minutes into in 1983 and that has never changed, nor will it ever.
I notice from your tone that you are getting a tad pissed off with me.
Not at all. However, if that ever does happen, you'll know immediately.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to pack. I'm getting in about 300 miles of riding tomorrow and then I'm off to California for a week.
The issue is not whether you or anyone else dislikes ROTJ. The issue is whether that makes it an inferior film. I can't believe you don't realize that such dislike and the reasons for it are presented as reasons why the film is actually in reality inferior. You yourself have presented such reasons for dislike as reasons why the film is simply bad. Obviously I'm not arguing whether or not people dislike the film. I'm arguing with the assumption that the reasons they dislike the film make it a bad film. Those arguments when presented as reasons why the film is a bad film can indeed be cliched and incorrect and the view of the film they promote (as being this bad film with all these supposed damning faults) can indeed be a myth. Similarly, while people can give examples why they dislike ROTJ, they cannot and have not given examples that successfully prove it is a bad or inferior film. Which was what I was talking about. The whole topic of this discussion is not whether or not people dislike ROTJ. It's whether or not ROTJ is a bad film in actual reality.
Regarding my not having seen the last two prequels or the SEs - I always preface my limited comments on them with the statement that I haven't seen them and that I can only base my opinions on the one prequel I have seen.
Not in this discussion. You compared ROTJ to "the prequels", clearly speaking of the prequels in general, with no reference to the fact that you had not seen two of them and thus could not accurately make that generalization. And not watching them leaves you out of the loop on a major area of Star wars knowledge. You really should watch them to get the full picture.
It doesn't have to work as an argument to condemn the whole film - it only has to work as one of the reasons I dislike the film.
I disagree. It was presented as an argument why your dislike of the film meant the film was bad. As such it does have to work as an argument against the whole film.
My problem is you continually telling me that my thoughts & opinions are incorrect. They aren't.
If your thoughts and opinions are presented as reasons why ROTJ is actually bad (as opposed to simply reasons why you dislike it) then I will certainly contend they are incorrect.