G E Predator said:Vaderisnothayden said:G E Predator said:C3PX said:G E Predator said:What we see in the official DVD's is what GL envisioned.
Vaderisnothayden already covered this, but yeah, you can't really say that is what Lucas "envisioned". That makes it sound like what we have now was somehow his plan all along, and clearly it wasn't. If he had had the whole thing planned out all along, you can bet things would have been much better thoughtout. Instead we end of with a lot of afterthoughts, convoluted plot points, and massive gaps in the plot. Honestly, I could have forgiven the prequels for a good deal of their awfulness if they actually possessed the ability to go along side the original trilogy to some extent. But it takes an awful lot of over thinking and self delusion to plaster over all the cracks in order to come up with a smooth enough surface to safely walk across without tripping. It is really hard to suspend your disbelief enough to make these fims work, for those that are able to, more power to you, but for some of us it is simply impossible.
Well I'm not in self-delusion, but I have done a lot of thinking about the prequels that helps me see that they do make sense. Maybe they are what GL envisioned. Maybe they're not. I don't know for sure because I'm not GL. What I was implying that there is a difference between hating the films and bashing the artist for making the films. GL did graduate from USC with a BA in fine arts, and he is one of the American film industry's most financially successful independent directors/producers, with an estimated net worth of $3.9 billion. The reason I defend him is because he has more experience in film making that we do. So while we don't have to agree with he vision of the Prequels or his idea about the OT:SE, it is not his fault if we choose not to like them.
It's his fault that he made awful films. There was no need whatsoever to do that. We didn't just come along and dandily say "Well, I think I'll dislike this film, because it'll entertain me to do so." We love Star Wars. We had every reason to want to love these films. But for all that, George made it impossible to love them, because he made them so far out awful. That's his fault.
And they aren't just awful -they also totally crap on the Star Wars story. It's perfectly reasonable for us to be pissed off with him for that. Just like his SE revisions totally crap on the original films. There was every reason to dislike those. And it's his fault that there was every reason to dislike them, because it was George Lucas who made them like that.
With the SE he mutilated the OT, and then there was all this talk from him about how the originals will vanish and all that will be left will be his horrible mutilated versions and sorry you fell in live with a half-finished movie. And the OOT isn't getting restored and can't get a decent dvd release and probably won't be on blu-ray or future formats, so we probably won't be able to watch it on the long term. Between the SE and the PT and the treatment of the OOT, this guy totally destroyed Star Wars. And we have good reason, plenty justification, to be pissed off at him for that.
The prequels don't make sense. I've done a lot of thinking about the prequels too and they don't work and they don't add up.
Lucas's finanicial success is not in any way an argument that he's not responsible for screwing up with the prequels or that he shouldn't be held responsible. The same goes for him having a BA in fine arts, which is a pretty common degree by the way.
So what if he has more experience in filmmaking than we do. That doesn't mean he understands Star Wars better than us. Quite the opposite. The SE changes proved that he doesn't understand Star Wars anymore, as does the nature of the PT. He lost his understanding of Star Wars and screwed up the whole thing and no amount of filmmaking experience absolves him of the guilt for that. He crapped all over a beloved classic. Something beloved of millions should not be destroyed to satsify the whims of one man.
How can you say that he doesn't understand Star Wars more than us? He created Star Wars. It's his artwork. And George did not make it impossible to love them. "Love" and "Hate" are ideal opinions.
How can I say it? Easily. Because I think the changes he made in the SE showed a blatant lack of understanding of the films and how they worked (see below). Because I think the portrayal of Anakin in the prequels showed a lack of understanding of what he'd already established in the OT for the character (both Vader and Anakin sides). Because a whole collection of things in the prequels showed what I think is a lack of understanding of how Star Wars works. As for "He created Star Wars. It's his artwork.", I disagree. The YOUNGER George Lucas created Star Wars. Then, like everybody does, he developed and changed as a person as he got older. The person we are at one time is not the same person we are even a decade later. It's easy to lose touch with something you did years ago when you were a different person. So no, I don't think it's his artwork -I think it's the artwork of the younger Lucas, who no longer exists, because he has been replaced by the older Lucas. And just as I am not the same person I was back then, I don't think he is the same person he was back then. I think he's lost touch with what he did back then. And I think some of us have lost touch with it less.
Don't get caught up in the mistaken practice of worshipping an artistic creator figure and thinking their judgement with regard to their work is infallible. Creative types misunderstand their work and fuck it up all the time and sometimes people on the sidelines can see it more clearly than they do.
Examples of SE changes that in my opinion demonstrate a lack of understanding of how the films work: Turning Jabba into a silly cartoon that was a total betrayal of the character and was at odds with the whole feel of the film, compromising the character and the believability of the film's fictional reality. Fucking up Han Solo's character development for the sake of artificial pseudo-morality (Han shoots second). Putting in a new ROTJ music number in Jabba's palace that was totally at odds with the whole nature of the film, including putting in cartoon characters whose totally unreal nature compromised the way the old films tried hard to make its imagined reality believable. Making the dying Anakin look less human and less relatable by excising his eyebrows, when the humanity and relatability of the dying Anakin was essential to the functioning of the whole trilogy. Replacing the ghost of old Anakin with young Annie despite the fact that the ghost of old Anakin is essential for making the emotional connection with the film's redemption theme that is a crucial part of the trilogy. Breaking of the crucial emotional flow from Vader funeral pyre to Endor celebrations that was a crucial part of the graceful closing of the whole trilogy (by stuffing in those other-world celebrations), which suggests to me that he doesn't understand how that part of the film works. These changes in my opinion demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of how the films work and of how Star Wars works.
Similarly, I think the casting of Hayden Christensen and the writing of Anakin in the prequels demonstrates a lack of understanding of what he'd established Anakin to be in the OT (most notably through the crucial Sebastian Shaw scenes) and of what Vader had been established to be in the OT and of how important this established stuff was to the functioning of the story. The nature of Anakin and of Vader is absolutely central to Star Wars. Also, the inclusion of totally cartoonish characters in the prequels was against a crucial principle the old films clearly function by -that they should try to make their imagined reality feel believable in terms of presentation of imaginary creatures and things. The old films functioning by that rule established it as a fundamental rule of the Star Wars fictional reality. If you're going to put something in the same fictonal reality then it has to function by the same rules. That's basic. The cartoon creatures were totally against this principle and totally undermined the fictional reality of the prequels and their connection with the old films. Demonstrating to my kind a lack of undersatanding of how the Star Wars fictional reality works. Another example is the virgin birth, which was totally at odds with the kind of story Star Wars is and the kind of standards it set for its fictional reality.
There were other things in the SE and PT that to my mind demonstrate a lack of understanding of Star Wars and of the films. Some of them are more complicated to explain and some of them are more minor. But all around I think it's a damning testimony. I think it demonstrates that Lucas forgot how Star Wars works.
And George did not make it impossible to love them. "Love" and "Hate" are ideal opinions.
Huh? Yes he did. Oh, if somebody looks at the prequels and SEs with a rose-tinted vision or doesn't look at them too deeply or completely then yeah they can like them. But if you look at them clearly and see them for what they are then you will dislike them. And this is because George made them crap. So yeah I think he did make them impossible to like, except for those people whose perceptions on the matter are blurred one way or another. It's impossible to see the SEs and PT as what they are and like them, and that's because George made them the way they are. We didn't "choose" to dislike them. We had no option. Our choice was made for us by the nature of the thing. And the nature of the thing (the SE and PT) is down to George. So I think he gave us no option and is indeed responsible for us disliking the damn things.
Note, there are some positive things about the SE and PT (like some elements of TPM and the semi-restoration of the Biggs scene in the SE), so it is possible to see them for what they are and like some elements, but liking the PT overall or the SE overall is I think impossible if you recognize their true nature and what they mean for Star Wars. At least if you care about Star Wars and give a damn about the OT. Our love of Star Wars leaves us no option but to hate this travesty of Star Wars.