Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 136

Post deleted because mock-up lost forever due to a cock-up on my part...opps!

I have some questions:

ROTJ:

3PO states in the opening that "Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place".

Wait a second. Chewie shows up with Leia. So what is 3PO talking about?

The Emperor arrives on the DS and tells Vader: "In time he will seek you out. And when he does you must bring him before me."

In the next scene with these two Palps tells Vader that Luke will come to him and Vader says: "He will come to me?". 

Wait a minute. You were just told he would come to you in the arrival scene. What the heck is Vader talking about?

Shanerjedi:

3PO states in the opening that "Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place".

Wait a second. Chewie shows up with Leia. So what is 3PO talking about?

You know, I remember thinking that about 25 years ago, and had since completely forgotten it! You're absolutely right. Chewie and Lando are clearly part of the plan, so it's not as if they've had no contact!

I worked out a varient of the Fan-o-matic idea where Luke has been on Dagobah finishing his training (it's been agreed that Leia will wait for Luke before hatching the escape plan). After Yoda's death Luke returns to Tatooine to rescue Han only to find she has lost patience and has rushed off with Chewie to do it alone (leaving Threepio at Ben's Hut).

So the Trojan horse in Artoo is a rescue plan for a rescue plan buggered up by the Skywalker trait of impatiently trying to save a loved one.

In that set up Threepio's statement makes sense, Lando has been at the Palace for sometime and Chewie has left with Leia (shame he doesn't mention her).

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-and-ROTJ-Wishlist/post/357719/#post357719

I know Ady doesn't want to have Threepio in the first two prequels so perhaps some of his dialogue can be moved from there to cover his half of the conversation.

Sorry Ripplin, I'm only a droid and not very knowledgeable about such things.

I tried fixing this shot but there is so much missing the only way around it I can see is to shoot the X-Wing again so Ady and chums I think you will have to put an X-wing on your list to Santa (so much for every element being restored and recomposited it looks not much better than one of my worse mockups) :

I know it's from a couple of pages ago, but about the Emperor's death, I think most people reckon he falls to the reactor core because of the whole "giant blue glowy explosion thing" that him falling onto the surface really wouldn't accomplish.

Also, I'm kida surprised at these screenshots of ROTJ, it seems to have aged way worse than I thought it had, and in dire need of a restoration. Then agian, that might just be the blue filter they had on 2004 DVDs making it look much worse than it should.

The lightsabers are definitely in dire need of a revamp, though, either way.

Ithilgore:

I think most people reckon he falls to the reactor core because of the whole "giant blue glowy explosion thing" that him falling onto the surface really wouldn't accomplish.

Well, you're assuming most people also reckon the blue energy released is also from the reactor core, and I don't think that's the case. I for one take the blue energy to be from Palpatine, an explosion of all his power when he dies. And yes, it looks like he's falling into some kind of reactor core, but logistically that's not possible. First of all, he's falling down the lift shaft, not a reactor core shaft, and second, he only falls for a few seconds, several hours too soon for him to reach the core. If he falls for six seconds before exploding, he would be travelling at 270,000 km per hour.

Darth Venal said:

Well, you're assuming most people also reckon the blue energy released is also from the reactor core, and I don't think that's the case. I for one take the blue energy to be from Palpatine, an explosion of all his power when he dies. And yes, it looks like he's falling into some kind of reactor core, but logistically that's not possible. First of all, he's falling down the lift shaft, not a reactor core shaft, and second, he only falls for a few seconds, several hours too soon for him to reach the core. If he falls for six seconds before exploding, he would be travelling at 270,000 km per hour.

You keep saying that he's falling down the lift shaft not the reactor core shaft. Please explain how you know it to be a "lift shaft". You also say it would be impossible for him to hit the core that quickly. Who says he did? I never saw it as him reaching the bottom, but coming into contact with, and disrupting, the energy a certain point down. You can't see a bottom to the shaft, nor does it look like the Emperor ever impacts on it.

brash_stryker:

You keep saying that he's falling down the lift shaft not the reactor core shaft. Please explain how you know it to be a "lift shaft".

It might be because he's right next to the lift!

And if you look at the scene it's crystal clear that the Emperor is electrifying Luke next to the railings on the lift shaft, and Vader throws him down it.

Watch the scene, it's indisputable.

(duplicate post)

Angel Blue01 said:

shanerjedi said:

The Emperor arrives on the DS and tells Vader: "In time he will seek you out. And when he does you must bring him before me."

In the next scene with these two Palps tells Vader that Luke will come to him and Vader says: "He will come to me?". 

Wait a minute. You were just told he would come to you in the arrival scene. What the heck is Vader talking about?

 

Vader's pretty distracted in the landing scene "I sense you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker", remember?

 

 

Yeah, and then I remember Palps telling him straight up that Luke would come looking for him. So then why in the very next scene with the two does Vader act surprised: "He will come to me?!"

Both Vader and Han were emasculated as characters in ROTJ.

The decorative Death Pit feature is on the top of a huge tower, falling to the bottom of the Toronto Tower would take about 10.8 seconds or less so it would take something in the same ball park (which matches what we see on the screen) to hit the bottom of the tower.

The air friction on a small object like the Death Star (with a surface gravity like Earth's) would be relatively greater so Palpatine would experience re-entry like friction effects after falling only a few hundred feet. In short he would explode (which is what we see).

The Death Star has an artificial Earth like gravity through most levels (as far as we know) and is full of air but it's about the size of a small moon, falling to the centre would possibly never happen.

On Earth gravity pulls things to centre of it's mass, the nearer you get to the centre the higher the pull.

The artificial gravity on the Death Star would bugger that up in the long term.

On the Death Star he would fall so far, slowed by the air and then reach a lower gravity zone and the air currents would cause him to slowly go up and down and up and down, essentially he would stop in mid air (assuming what we have seen of the station is carried through all layers).

Once again friction would be a factor so the poor guy wouldn't be bouncing for very long.

In any case it's complicated and almost certainly not what we see happening in the film.

Darth Venal said:

brash_stryker:

You keep saying that he's falling down the lift shaft not the reactor core shaft. Please explain how you know it to be a "lift shaft".

It might be because he's right next to the lift!

And if you look at the scene it's crystal clear that the Emperor is electrifying Luke next to the railings on the lift shaft, and Vader throws him down it.

Watch the scene, it's indisputable.

Let's say that the lift is directly by the shaft. We see Luke and Darth exit said lift, and it's just big enough for 2 people to stand in side by side, so it can be assumed that the shaft of the lift intself wouldn't be much bigger. I don't understand you referring to the shaft the emperor gets thrown down and the shaft of the lift as the same thing.  Does one lift need that whole entire shaft to accomodate it? No. So we can safely assume that this shaft is not primarily used for just one lift.

You'll notice there are also walkways going across said shaft near the top. This doesn't call the main purpose of the shaft into question either.

I don't really care if it's a shaft or a lift.

Maybe it's a shaft lift and they charge tourists a fee to ride it up to the top?

I wish there was a way to tart up the Death Pit to look a bit more like that shot but looking down.

It has some of the bridge, walkway things that the first Death Star had but it has a lighting scheme even darker than the Tractor Beam control that Ben wandered around.

I know the two stations aren't exactly the same but they should follow the basic design ethic.

I've never really liked the glow at the bottom either.

Call me old fashioned but I like my bottomless pits to be dark at the bottom and lighter at the top.

When prune face goes pop it would show up better if the bottom was dark rather than light.

vaderios said:

Its a damn lift . thats how vader and luke reached the tower.

Not debating that it's a lift that Luke and Vader came up in, but clearly the enormous shaft the emperor falls into isn't just to accomodate a 2 man lift...

The fact that there's a lift is incidental, and doesn't make it exclusively a lift shaft. If it was, it would only need to be wide enough to accomodate the lift itsef. Hence, reactor.

Anyway, in the words of Tarkin, this bickering is pointless.

It's neither as far as I can make out.

It's just another huge chasm (the first Death Star had them so why should this be any different) which runs down the centre of the tower, along side the lift shaft (just like the one in the picture Angel just posted from ANH).

Haven't a clue what it's for or why it opens up in the room (the Sith seem to hire computer game designers for architects, Palpatine is from Naboo and just look at their powerstations) but it's there and for the reasons I described before it's doubtful in the extreme that Palpatine was chucked into the reactor.

He was merely chucked down the centre of a really tall tower.

brash_stryker:

Not debating that it's a lift that Luke and Vader came up in, but clearly the enormous shaft the emperor falls into isn't just to accomodate a 2 man lift...

The fact that there's a lift is incidental, and doesn't make it exclusively a lift shaft. If it was, it would only need to be wide enough to accomodate the lift itsef. Hence, reactor.

Anyway, in the words of Tarkin, this bickering is pointless.

Then shut up about it. You're the one carrying it on, trying to convince yourself that it's not a lift shaft when clearly it is. The big central tube running down the middle is the damn lift shaft. Your logic is ridiculous and if anyone cares to post pictures from the scene it will be patently clear that Vader drops the Emperor down the hole at the side of the lift. Ergo, it's a lift shaft.

And the glow at the bottom is not the reactor core. Unless you're suggesting this lift runs 450km down to the core and the Emperor falls all that way in about six seconds.