Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 118

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM THE "HOW WOULD YOU DO ROTJ" THREAD. BINGO SAID I SHOULD POST IT HERE, JUST FOR TALKING POINTS. I THINK MOST OF THIS IS TOTALLY BEYOND THE SCOPE OF FAN EDITING:

My brother and I just had a four hour car ride, and this topic came up. Basically we dished on it for the entire trip.

Here are our conclusions.

ROTJ, like the prequals, although far less egregious, suffered from a flawed execution, and not (in our opinion) fundamentally bad ideas.

Changes we would see:

JABBAS PALACE-
It is Leia, not Luke, who organizes the rescue. In fact, dialogue dictates that a while back Luke sent R2 to Leia, and no one has seen Luke in a while.
Leia's plan needs R2 in the Palace to help her deactivate the carbonite. Lando has already snuck in, 3PO and R2 hand themselves over, and Leia comes in disguise. Just like in the film she and Han (and R2) get caught.

Then Luke shows up, all mysterious. My brother and I both thought some kind of visual to cue that Luke had changed was in order. We had four ideas.

-Long hair. Akin to Anakin in ROTS.
-Short hair, like Anakin had in AOTC, minus the rattail.
-An Obi-Wan-esque cropped beard.
-Make up to show the scarring he recieved at Vader's hands healed poorly.

This change shows he's different, and hopefully makes the audience a little more likely to suspect he'll fall to the Dark Side. Also, when he flips his hood back "You will bring captain Solo and the Wookie to me" its kind of a shock.

From here on in the Jabba sequence runs more or less like in the movie with two changes.

During the skiff battle Chewie should toss some dude like a football into the Sarlac. Seriously, Chewie never gets to cut loose.

Han get's his site back a little faster, which leads to a confrontation with Boba. Boba wraps Luke in the rope, then Han yells at him and the two have an old-West shootout moment. Boba is faster, but Han ducks and falls, spinning and shooting at Boba. He misses, but it richochets, igniting Fett's jetpack and sending him to his doom. It keeps the moment similar, while giving Han a Hero Moment and killing Fett slightly more satisfactorilly.

After the Barge goes boom, the lost Sandstorm scene is inserted. It provides another set, making the film feel bigger, and gives Han and Lando a moment to acknowledge Han's forgiving him.

Luke returns to Dagobah, where it seems he's been for some time, training. He rushes back because Yoda is ill. THe scene plays the same, but when Luke asks if Vader is his father, Yoda says "Ah, the question you've never asked." implying the issue had been an elephant in the hut for some time. This way we have a reason for why Luke is suddenly so badass, he's been with Yoda all this time.

At the Rebel Briefing, it's a much more diverse crowd. The Prune-faces are featured more, as well as a more ethnically and genderwise diverse human crowd. A whole contingent of guys in differnet uniforms (something vaguely Napoleonic to stand out) are sitting together, to give the impression of diverse forces joining together for this one big rush. And Lando's copilot should be there.

If possible, it would be nice to see Dodana or Reiken. Adds a little sense of EPIC SCALE to see them return.

Lando is only a commander... just to make it funny that Han outranks him.

Another contingent of people greet Leia. They are the surviving Alderaanians, converting their merchant vessels to warcraft for thsi attack. The leader tries to convince Leia to stay away from the battle, because 'she's all they have left.' Leia says that if they lose, none of them will have anything left. (A nice moment for Leia to show some leadership).

Otherwise the film would be mostly the same until we meet the Ewoks.

Ewoks need to be much more intense. Not scary, but not cuddly (cute is ok). They have bone-totems on their belts, and claws, and mud caked in their fur. The Ewoks have been apparently waging a guerrilla war against the Imperials the whole time. Moff Jerjerod keeps denying that there is any problem with 'the natives,' clearly indicating that there is a problem. When the gang is captured by the Ewoks, empty stormtrooper armor is piled next to the cooking fire.

When 3PO tells his story, the Ewoks pass around a horn bubbling with a noxious drink, and all the heroes drink it as an initiation (just to imply the Ewoks have some kind of culture of their own).

I wouldn't change a damn thing about the Emperor or any of the scenes of him, Vader and Luke. (except that he really needs a nicer shuttle). I think they're perfect.

ENDOR BATTLE:
No Ewok steals the speederbike. Let Chewie do it. He deserves some more action.
More Ewoks die. Not a bloodbath, but we should see some get shot. We should also see some stab Stormtroopers with spears and poison blowdarts.
Have the Force Field projector be on top of a mountain, and the bunker at the base... just to make the geography more clear.
The shuttle the heroes came in had a small force of maybe 40-50 people shoved in the back like a Normandy lander. Let them (including the Prune-faces) get some action.
Leia gets blasted in the shoulder and it WOUNDS HER badly. This is WAR dammit.
Mainly the battle should feel bigger.

SPACE BATTLE:
More ships. More types of ships. The Rebellion might have some repainted ships. Ships should crash together.
THere should be at least one Hero Shot of the Falcon flying with all guns blazing, blasting TIE fighters. Footage was shot of soldiers in the Falcon's guns firing away. That should be used.
Footage was also shot of Madine's death, as well as a female XWing pilot. These should go back in.
The guys in Napoleonic jackets can bite the dust heroically, as can some of the Alderanians. This is WAR dammit.
When Lando is escaping the Death Star, the firebursts out... and we hold our breath as a few seconds later the Falcon doesn't fly out, it tumbles out, totally scorched and barely holding together.

ENDING
Lando and Han reunite, and Han sees how totally damaged the Falcon is, black and scorched. This could be a fun moment.
Leia (arm in a sling) greets the surviving Alderanians and they kneel. A hopeful moment for the future.
Yub Yub is playing. Screw it, I love that song.
The Ewok Cheif, a translator, and a Rebel commander are talking. They're a proud people Ewoks, not all dancing teddy bears. (some can still dance)
Luke comes back. Everyone is happy. Luke looks over and sees ObiWan, Yoda, and Sebastian Shaw.

The camera pans up above the happy people, XWings drop fireworks in the sky, camera pans up to the stars, where, as the music crescendos, the AUDIENCE POV ITSELF is pulled into hyperspace as the credits roll. People cheer.

wow, brilliant ideas! i love the idea of the hyperspace ending. the tricky thing for ROTJ now is that it is under alot of pressure to conclude a 6 film saga now, whereas originally it was suited for a trilogy.

i have mentioned this a few times before, but i still think it wouldnt be too intrusive to the plot. if/when ady (or anyone else) decides to work on ROTJ and the PT, it would be good to think of any edits to make for ROTJ that can be linked to the PT. i think the whole JABBA affair at the beginning of the film, can be used more symbolically if JABBA is made a villain in the PT. rusty battledroids could stalk the Palace's corridors, and the eventual death of JABBA would be like closing off the last few loose ties of the Skywalker past.

i love the idea of bearded luke, if only there was a 'beard' filter on final cut.;)

What can be done from this brilliant list of ideas.

I already suggested a way for Leia to rush into saving Han after becoming impatient with Luke finishing his training on Dagobah (as in the fan-o-matic), so that part can be adapted.

Chewie throwing a guard into the Sarlacc might be doable by taking footage from the Endor battle and replacing a stormy for a skiff guard.

Yoda's new line could be added into the beginning of a fan-o-matic style cut or where it is in it's current form (suggesting he has been going back and forth but it might be a bit more vague that way).

It may be possible to replace conference members with a more diverse band (I've already voiced my dislike of the set as it currently exists).

Dropping the other generals in may be possible.

Alderaanians are already implied with the lone blockade runner but more could be added.

Making the Tydirium an Imperial transport rather than a shuttle would make more room for troops and equipment.

Chewie on the bike must be doable with a good model (but it might be difficult getting him to sneak past the troops).

I already did a mockup of the dish on a mountain ridge (all be it on the other side).

The blowdarts and Ewok deaths can be adapted from elements from the Ewok movies (there have already been posts about how to make their culture more complex and convincing as fighters).

More ships are certainly doable going by what Ady has in mind.

More pilots might be doable too (there are plenty of people with spot on costumes who would love to be in a cut of one of the films).

And I love your idea of the audience jumping to hyperspace at the end (nice touch).

So there's plenty that can be done there.

Great list. It's funny you mentioned haircuts because Hamill has mentioned how he wanted a buzzcut or something to show a change in appearance for ROTJ.

But I also like a subtle scar too.

edit:

The Ewoks have been apparently waging a guerrilla war against the Imperials the whole time. Moff Jerjerod keeps denying that there is any problem with 'the natives,' clearly indicating that there is a problem

Now this is an idea I've wanted to see for a long time. You have the idea of a war. You combine it with the idea that the ewoks have scored victories, but are slowly losing. Their numbers are dwindling. Then you have them forging an agreement with the rebel strike force to launch an all out attack before they're wiped out for good.

Drawing a consistent scar on Mark would be a real pain in the arse but once again doable if someone really wanted to (not me though).

Yes. You'd need someone skilled in paint work AND camera tracking(matchmoving) to pull that off.

I love this thread. As recently as 5 years ago, I never thought most of the stuff that has already been done by ady or contemplated by the rest of us would ever be remotely possible.

shanerjedi said:

The Ewoks have been apparently waging a guerrilla war against the Imperials the whole time. Moff Jerjerod keeps denying that there is any problem with 'the natives,' clearly indicating that there is a problem

 Now this is an idea I've wanted to see for a long time. You have the idea of a war. You combine it with the idea that the ewoks have scored victories, but are slowly losing. Their numbers are dwindling. Then you have them forging an agreement with the rebel strike force to launch an all out attack before they're wiped out for good.

This sort of thing has been brought up before too:

Yes bingo. That's a great idea. I cant remember was that your mockup or Angels?

The war would also help explain better why the ewoks have all these weapons available at a moments notice.

Also, alien languages with subtitles gives you room to maneuver dialogue around too and create subplots where none existed before.

That was one of mine (one of the few not too bad ones) I must have been in a sick mood that day.

That also makes the ewoks seem more fierce and less docile(what were they doing in the original? no threat. no concern = no tension or suspense)

These things all raise the stakes.

Are there any films out there with forest warfare against an largely invisible enemy? I'm just thinking of anything to add to the scope of the ground battle.

Bingowings said:

What can be done from this brilliant list of ideas.

Chewie throwing a guard into the Sarlacc might be doable by taking footage from the Endor battle and replacing a stormy for a skiff guard.

Yoda's new line could be added into the beginning of a fan-o-matic style cut or where it is in it's current form (suggesting he has been going back and forth but it might be a bit more vague that way).

It may be possible to replace conference members with a more diverse band (I've already voiced my dislike of the set as it currently exists).

Dropping the other generals in may be possible.

Chewie on the bike must be doable with a good model (but it might be difficult getting him to sneak passed the troops).

I already did a mockup of the dish on a mountain ridge (all be it on the other side).

 

The blowdarts and Ewok deaths can be adapted from elements from the Ewok movies (there have already been posts about how to make their culture more complex and convincing as fighters).

More pilots might be doable too (there are plenty of people with spot on costumes who would love to be in a cut of one of the films).

And I love your idea of the audience jumping to hyperspace at the end (nice touch).

So there's plenty that can be done there.

 I had a feeling that the projector on the mountain came from this thread. I'm blown away by how much of my pin-in-the-sky rambling is possible. This makes me want to master some of the techniques these are done, so I can contirbute more.

TheBoost idea that I like a lot is to make it clear that Luke spent a long time with Yoda for the last year or so. If he never saw Yoda since empire that means he was only trained by him for few days. Even with the best skills Luke could not became so powerful with so few training from a master IMO. I like the idea that Yoda never wanted to tell him the truth, but once he feel that he's dying, the truth needs to be told. Problem is it needs dubbing Yoda or finding a workable line from Hamill from another movie. (like "I need to ask you again" or something like that)

TMBTM said:

TheBoost idea that I like a lot is to make it clear that Luke spent a long time with Yoda for the last year or so. If he never saw Yoda since empire that means he was only trained by him for few days. Even with the best skills Luke could not became so powerful with so few training from a master IMO. I like the idea that Yoda never wanted to tell him the truth, but once he feel that he's dying, the truth needs to be told. Problem is it needs dubbing Yoda or finding a workable line from Hamill from another movie. (like "I need to ask you again" or something like that)

SSWR and the gang have been working on the idea for many moons, their basic take is to have Luke's part of the story start on Dagobah (with Yoda's death) so he's finished the training in the time between ESB and ROTJ, he then goes to Tatooine to assist in saving Han.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E688FB3C9E4D2FA3&search_query=SSWR1

There are many variations of that basic but ingenious idea.

(I was told this pic belongs on this thread instead of where I put it...)

This is slightly ahead of itself, but there isn't a Jedi thread and while we're all going full throttle with the matte paintings, here's one I'm working on for Jabba's palace.

I am probably going to put another canyon wall on the left, rather than leaving it as one entirely open plain, and will probably remove the rock feature in the distance. But the right-hand side and sky are pretty close to how I want them.

Cheers. I was saying on the other thread that it's not finished; I need to put a canyon wall on the left, rather than having it a totally open plain, and I'm going to remove the rock feature in the background as I've gone off it :-)

It might add to the already high realism of the matte to add just a tad of haze infront of the palace to blend it in with with the background and further the illusion of depth.

It would be a useful not just as a establishing matte but if it could be extended out you could even use it to show the barge party leaving for the Dune Sea.

This is a general ESB and ROTJ thread (not a Revisted one) though it has become more ROTJ recently with people posting most of their ESB ideas on Ady's thread at the moment.

There is a lot of great stuff to look at here so it's well worth a read.

Bingowings:

It might add to the already high realism of the matte to add just a tad of haze infront of the palace to blend it in with with the background and further the illusion of depth.

I tried it before but it didn't look right. I'm not sure something that close to the POV would really have much of a haze layer anyway, especially in a scape as deep as this.

I think blending the palace in with the background would have the opposite effect to creating more depth, and it's the one thing in the matte that should look like it's not in the background.

Maybe when I've finished the canyon on the left and removed the rock feature I can tinker with the depth layering but I don't think it needs it at the moment.

When Vader and Palpatine are having their hologram conversation, how about showing Vader on Coruscant as a hologram talking back.  It would make the conversation more realistic and it would be cool to see Coruscant in ESB.  This is totally pointless, but it would be cool to see.