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Indy BluRay pushed off til 2010, what does that mean for SW? — Page 2

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No, it's not possible to "scan" any fan edit, since none of them are done on film.  As for ANH:R, it was done at DVD resolution, so it's not even possible to make that HD.  He didn't use an HD broadcast for ANH, he just used the official DVD.

ESB will be 720p, from the German HD broadcast, not 1080p because it's just too big to work with and some effects back when he was attempting 1080p didn't turn out so great because the increased resolution limited what he could use (the wampa tusk test comes to mind).

2K is slightly better than 1080p resolution, and 4k is significantly better resolution than 2k.

SD (NTSC): 720x480 (width first, height second, and this uses non-square pixels - with square pixels, a true 4:3 image would be 640x480)
720p: 1280x720
1080p: 1920x1080
2K: 2048×1556 (full-aperture)
4K: 4096x3112 (full-aperture)

The Dark Knight had its 35mm scenes scanned at 4K and its IMAX (70mm) scenes scanned at 8K for its online edit.  Some other films have been scanned at 8K for Blu-Ray release (Baraka, The Wizard of Oz), though I imagine that's mainly for archival purposes and "future-proofing" than anything, since Blu-Ray tops off at 1080p.

But things that are done digitally are limited to the highest resolution that was worked with.  If I'm not mistaken, AOTC and ROTS were shot with 1080p digital cameras, so they'll never be able to look better than Blu-Ray.  Though I could be mistaken, as most/all digitally-shot films today are at least shot at 2K, and I don't think George is *that* big of an idiot.

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CO said:
Anchorhead said:
 I know for a fact he's lied about all things Star Wars77, so there's no believing him ever again.

 

No Anchorhead, it is Obiwan who is the liar in the Original Star Wars, not George Lucas:)

 

;-)

 

 

 

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Well, what we have learned about all this is that we need to protect films from their own creators if they act like Lucas and destroy their own works and deny future generations of the greatness of the OOT. WE might as well destroy every single reel of film ever produced in the last 120 years if it means the no one can no longer watch the OOT.

The Indy BluRay pushed back to 2010, BTW, means nothing to the release of the OT onto the same format. You guys just assume that Indy has to be released before SW because that was what happened with the DVD releases. To me this seems like misguided logic.

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generalfrevious said:

Well, what we have learned about all this is that we need to protect films from their own creators if they act like Lucas and destroy their own works and deny future generations of the greatness of the OOT. WE might as well destroy every single reel of film ever produced in the last 120 years if it means the no one can no longer watch the OOT.

 

No, I tend to think the rest of the industry sees what we see, that Lucas has become a blatant control freak and power monger.  They see what he does and hear what he says and put it in perspective.  They kiss his ass if they need his facilities like ILM or Skywalker Sound but beyond that they don't worry about his opinions that much.

 

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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The OT will never be released onto Blu-Ray. Sorry.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Everyone said the unaltered trilogy wasn't coming out on DVD. We got 'em.

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Darrell Kaiser said:

Everyone said the unaltered trilogy wasn't coming out on DVD. We got 'em.

 

Right. That shitty LD transfer sure showed Lucas who was boss didn't it? Lame weak argument.

 

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Darrell Kaiser said:

Everyone said the unaltered trilogy wasn't coming out on DVD. We got 'em.

 

Yeah, in VHS quality no less! Score!

When the fan made preservations are better than the official release, you know something isn't right. Sure "we got 'em", but only because we already had them.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 (Edited)

In fairness, though, it was a decent surprise to get the OUT even in that form. Not to say that it means that we'll get a Blu-Ray transfer or anything, but at least we no longer have to deal with the deteriorating mess that is a VHS tape.

I'm a glass half-full kind of guy. Sometimes.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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ChainsawAsh said:

But things that are done digitally are limited to the highest resolution that was worked with.  If I'm not mistaken, AOTC and ROTS were shot with 1080p digital cameras, so they'll never be able to look better than Blu-Ray.  Though I could be mistaken, as most/all digitally-shot films today are at least shot at 2K, and I don't think George is *that* big of an idiot.

 

 At the time AOTC and ROTS were made, there were no 2K cameras on the marketplace. So the "original (digital) negative" of Episodes II and III is 1080p resolution.  Very, very sadly. So what you see in the theatre, even IMAX, is basically just a projected Blu-Ray in some sense.

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zombie84 said:
ChainsawAsh said:

But things that are done digitally are limited to the highest resolution that was worked with.  If I'm not mistaken, AOTC and ROTS were shot with 1080p digital cameras, so they'll never be able to look better than Blu-Ray.  Though I could be mistaken, as most/all digitally-shot films today are at least shot at 2K, and I don't think George is *that* big of an idiot.

 

 At the time AOTC and ROTS were made, there were no 2K cameras on the marketplace. So the "original (digital) negative" of Episodes II and III is 1080p resolution.  Very, very sadly. So what you see in the theatre, even IMAX, is basically just a projected Blu-Ray in some sense.

Not sad to me.   Crappy movies shot on crappy HD video instead of on film.

At least the originals were not shot so crappy if they were no one would be fans.  The original films had real handcrafted artistry, models, puppets and glass matte paintings as well as specific photographic processes used, lenses and film stock chosen by the director/cinematographer to give the films their unique look.

Once you get to Episode II digital artists who probably did some shots in movies suddenly were doing all the shots but the live action.

All we are left with is some incredibly expensive video game cutscenes.  But without the interactivity of a game or a games sometimes awesome story.

At least Phantom Menace theatrical cut can be restored for blu ray for those who want it, i can't get by the first twenty minutes on my laserdisc the film is just awful.

But as terrible as episode 1 was you had a artist like Doug Chiang actually doing real paintings for the pre production art and not computer mock ups like Ryan Church.  It was shot on film.  It had real models shot and miniatures built, sets etc.  And Yoda was a puppet, not as good as the one used on the originals but a far cry from the bad cgi yoda in II and III that looked like a cartoon frog on speed when fighting.

At lot more effort was put into the screenplay even though the film does not show this.  Phantom took as long as the original star wars to write.

It was like once they got to clones and sith they were operating on auto pilot.  All the effort went into the set up chapter.  Other than the art department and cgi artists busy, the movies came together incredibly lazy.

All the prequels amounted to were a back story, but a back story where not much actually happens until the end of sith.  The entire thing is at least more than 5 hours of pure cgi filler and inane talking scenes, interparsed with frantic action.  But nothing really happens on the screen terrible moving or interesting.  In fact the galaxy goes to hell in a handbasket and anakin goes bad just to set up the original trilogy.

So Lucas original outline which was nothing more probably than a couple paragraphs, is really puffed up in the movies but not really developed.  Anakin is not developed as a character like Luke was in the original trilogy, what happened to Lucas?

It is really a shame what a good character director and writing team could have done with this concept, which is not a bad idea.  Lucas is sometimes a good generator of ideas.  It is just the pathetically inept way in which the concept was handled.  In a very obvious we go from point A to point B, and we don't even need the set up these 1 film and 2 videos provide.  Kenobi's speech in his house in star wars covers the material well enough.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:
zombie84 said:
ChainsawAsh said:

But things that are done digitally are limited to the highest resolution that was worked with.  If I'm not mistaken, AOTC and ROTS were shot with 1080p digital cameras, so they'll never be able to look better than Blu-Ray.  Though I could be mistaken, as most/all digitally-shot films today are at least shot at 2K, and I don't think George is *that* big of an idiot.

 

 At the time AOTC and ROTS were made, there were no 2K cameras on the marketplace. So the "original (digital) negative" of Episodes II and III is 1080p resolution.  Very, very sadly. So what you see in the theatre, even IMAX, is basically just a projected Blu-Ray in some sense.

Not sad to me.   Crappy movies shot on crappy HD video instead of on film.

At least the originals were not shot so crappy if they were no one would be fans.  The original films had real handcrafted artistry, models, puppets and glass matte paintings as well as specific photographic processes used, lenses and film stock chosen by the director/cinematographer to give the films their unique look.

Once you get to Episode II digital artists who probably did some shots in movies suddenly were doing all the shots but the live action.

All we are left with is some incredibly expensive video game cutscenes.  But without the interactivity of a game or a games sometimes awesome story.

At least Phantom Menace theatrical cut can be restored for blu ray for those who want it, i can't get by the first twenty minutes on my laserdisc the film is just awful.

But as terrible as episode 1 was you had a artist like Doug Chiang actually doing real paintings for the pre production art and not computer mock ups like Ryan Church.  It was shot on film.  It had real models shot and miniatures built, sets etc.  And Yoda was a puppet, not as good as the one used on the originals but a far cry from the bad cgi yoda in II and III that looked like a cartoon frog on speed when fighting.

At lot more effort was put into the screenplay even though the film does not show this.  Phantom took as long as the original star wars to write.

It was like once they got to clones and sith they were operating on auto pilot.  All the effort went into the set up chapter.  Other than the art department and cgi artists busy, the movies came together incredibly lazy.

All the prequels amounted to were a back story, but a back story where not much actually happens until the end of sith.  The entire thing is at least more than 5 hours of pure cgi filler and inane talking scenes, interparsed with frantic action.  But nothing really happens on the screen terrible moving or interesting.  In fact the galaxy goes to hell in a handbasket and anakin goes bad just to set up the original trilogy.

So Lucas original outline which was nothing more probably than a couple paragraphs, is really puffed up in the movies but not really developed.  Anakin is not developed as a character like Luke was in the original trilogy, what happened to Lucas?

It is really a shame what a good character director and writing team could have done with this concept, which is not a bad idea.  Lucas is sometimes a good generator of ideas.  It is just the pathetically inept way in which the concept was handled.  In a very obvious we go from point A to point B, and we don't even need the set up these 1 film and 2 videos provide.  Kenobi's speech in his house in star wars covers the material well enough.

I take it you didn't like the prequels then?

Even if blu-ray is the best episodes 2 and 3 will ever look, It is still pretty good for the time being and should be for another maybe 10 years? Most people still don't have blu-ray players and 1080p capable televisions. But yeah, not too bright of Lucas to do that. Then again, he didn't really seem to care so why bother with film when HD cameras are easier?

I think the OT should've been scanned at 8k because like the Wizard of Oz, is one of those rare movies that deserve the finest treatment.

 

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vbangle said:

The OT will never be released onto Blu-Ray. Sorry.

I know I'm not one to talk, but vbangle, do you want to back this up with a source?

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 (Edited)

I have to admit, CGI Yoda in II and III looked much better, much closer to the OT Yoda than the Yoda of TPM. I don't know how they could get that TPM puppet so bloody wrong.

And Janskeet, vbangle seems to be venturing forth a prediction. No sources are necessary for such things.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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bkev said:
Anchorhead said:

As far as Star Wars on Blu-ray is concerned, since I'm only interested in one film, and it happens to be the one that Lucas dislikes - I'm not holding my breath.

Very interested in this idea that Lucas dislikes the first Star Wars... would you care to elaborate, Anchorhead?

I was speaking specifically of his feelings for the 1977 theatrical release of Star Wars, not the SEs.  He's always trying to alter history with his stories of what was really going on - even though some of us were around back then and remember the interviews.

 

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Davnes007 said:

Anchorhead was referring to ESB. When he said 'Star Wars on Blu-Ray', he meant it in the general sense.

 

Actually, I wasn't.  I was speaking specifically of Star Wars77.

 

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ChainsawAsh said:

IIRC, Anchorhead loved the original SW, saw ESB and didn't like it much, and hasn't seen ROTJ, TPM, AOTC, or ROTS.  Do I have that right, or is my memory failing me (again)?

I saw & loved Star Wars in 1977.  Like a great many 15-year-olds that summer, I saw it at least weekly until it left the theaters. These days, it's almost my sole reason for being here. I'm also a fan of the parts of the EU that fit within that original story or universe.

I saw Empire when it was released and felt some parts were great, but some parts ruined the story for me. That was when Lucas started to shrink the endless, mysterious universe he'd created in Star Wars. I saw it several times in the theater and then sort of drifted from it.

I also saw Return in the theaters and nearly hated it.  I've seen it only a few times over the years, the last time being about 12 years ago.

I saw Phantom and did not like it at all.

Have not seen the last two or any of the SEs of the first three.

 

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Gaffer Tape said:

As for his statement, it could be referring to either the fact that he referred to the original version as 25% complete and wholly unsatisfied with it (it also being the SE with the most changes), or it could be the fact that nearly all of its plot elements have been retconned by the future films.

That's it exactly. 

Lucas never shuts up about how wrong Star Wars77 is.  That coupled with his unwillingness to present it properly, acknowledge it's existence, or preserve it  - and I can only assume he must dislike it.

 

 

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generalfrevious said:

You guys just assume that Indy has to be released before SW because that was what happened with the DVD releases. To me this seems like misguided logic.

Has to? - not necessarily.  However, I certainly think it will, and by several years.  Indiana Jones isn't constantly being reworked, rewritten, and shrunken every few years - it doesn't have the physical & emotional mess surrounding it that the Star Wars franchise has - and - it's not completely controlled by Lucas.  He doesn't have final say on how the franchise is handled. (thank God).

 

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Thanks for the answer Anchorhead.

On the subject of Indy, let's hope that new matte SciFi used doesn't make it into the real blu-ray masters.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Can't find a still, but this youtube video illustrates it.  I know there's a still somewhere on the forum here.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Wow.  I didn't know they did that.  That's ... awful.  Jesus.