STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 455

What doesn't make sense to me is that if the chamber is really supposed to be located in the vane, then how are people supposed to get to it realistically? Every time somebody needs to go to the chamber, they are supposed to walk carefully along that long walkway to get to the fin first, then take the elevator up? Talk about inconvenient. It just doesn't seem realistic that that room would be in such a difficult-to-get-to location.

Nice job with the notes there, Janskeet. The curve of the hallway is definitely questionable to say the least.

I see what you mean, but then don't they have to travel the length of the tube that connects the fin to the wall of the chasm? Is it some kind of long hallway or is like a travel tube of some sort? How long is the tube anyways?

Sorry but I think when you watch the movie you get the feeling the freezing chamber IS in the main body of the city and not on the vane. When Luke gets sucked out the window he 'luckily' lands on the vane. The sudden reappearance of Vader whilst Luke was walking through the corridor of the vane makes you think shit how did he get there! Makes you jump! It just doesn't make sense that when Luke got separated from Artoo that he had such a long journey to face Vader (in a few seconds!!) or those seconds robbed.  

Jaitea said:

Sorry but I think when you watch the movie you get the feeling the freezing chamber IS in the main body of the city and not on the vane. When Luke gets sucked out the window he 'luckily' lands on the vane. The sudden reappearance of Vader whilst Luke was walking through the corridor of the vane makes you think shit how did he get there! Makes you jump! It just doesn't make sense that when Luke got separated from Artoo that he had such a long journey to face Vader (in a few seconds!!) or those seconds robbed.

Wherever the freezing chamber is we know for certain that the area where Luke is thrown out of the window is in the vane and when Vader resumes his attack leading to the final tumble it's also in the vane.

There is a strong case for the freezing chamber also being in the Vane but it's never made 100% clear and it doesn't need to be.

Ady has posted that he believes that the chamber is in the Vane and explained how he thinks Luke gets there and moves around it but he has also said he doesn't need to show that in the edit.

I do think that logically, based on how other things happen, it now seems to me that the room may have been intended to be in the vane, but it still doesn't seem right to me, and the look of the vane does not help me buy it any better. That room just doesn't seem to belong perched inside that dome on the vane. In the film "The Black Hole", a lot of time is shown whilst the crew is traveling throughout the Cygnus early on, taking air cars through a travel tube, and even a long elevator up to the command tower. I totally believed the layout of the ship as it was shown to me. Now I realize they had different priorities in that film to build up tension as they traveled trough the empty ghost ship, but the fact that the door closes behind luke, and just seconds later he is in the carbon freezing chamber, just adds a level of confusion to the viewer. A quick shot of Luke traveling through the tube/hallway to get to the vane is all it would have taken for us to get it.

Sorry again, just watched clip and obviously my memory is not what id like it to be. Luke DOES get sucked out the window of the vane after Vader throws debris at him, but I still think the Chamber somehow should be in the city and not in the vane if only to explain Lukes' arrival there. 

adywan said:

Oldfan said:

I see what you mean, but then don't they have to travel the length of the tube that connects the fin to the wall of the chasm? Is it some kind of long hallway or is like a travel tube of some sort? How long is the tube anyways?

Ok this is the way i see it....

The workers in Cloud City seem to be the Ugnaughts while the rest seem to be residents (extra revenue & good business sense so income is not reliant on the gas mine). The Carbon chamber is located within the vane. To get to it you have to travel down a long shaft. Now the carbon chamber wouldn't be the only facility in the vane as this would serve some other purpose too to do with the mining the gas. Now travelling down the shaft to get to the facility doesn't seem stupid to me as it is a mine and the long shaft may symbolise the shaft that coal miners had to travel down each day. Now if you look at the city it does seem a very clean place and a place that the wealthy would reside (especially when you see the rest of the galaxy at that point in time). Wouldn't it make perfect sense to have the mining facilities and industrial sector tucked away in the bowels of the city?

After studying the movie it is clear that the carbon chamber is situated directly above the room with the window in the vane.

 

 

Yeah defiantly the room with the window is below the chamber and yes the camber is in the vane but its just Lukes' arrival that annoys me.....thats all no big thing.  

Well, Ady, you do make sense with how you explained that. Indeed, your parallels with coal miners does make sense to me. I think it is the fact that Luke arrives there so abruptly that has many of us confused. I do agree that not everything in the movies needs to be spelled out to the viewer, I just think that in this case, it might have helped a bit to establish where Luke was as he approached the chamber, just to help us get our bearings. I do like the idea of maybe widening the vane somewhat, just to better support the action inside.

Come to think of it, an establishing exterior shot of the vane itself, with maybe a close-up on the carbon freezing area, right at the beginning of the scene with Han at the chamber, would have have done wonders to help us understand where they are. From then on, we would have known that the entire battle between Luke and Vader takes place in the vane.

I wish Id never had to think about this problem with the movie. It all flowed. But now it jumps out, annoys me!!   Aahhh, when I think back to Michael Robb saying "we've got an exclusive for you, for the first time on British television.....The Empire Strikes Back!" the clip showed from "Luke, don't its a trap" to "I've been waiting for you young Skywalker"......a connection to the vane from the city on your model Ady, no Rik Olie needed.

Looking at the Marvel comic adaptation, it isn't even clear where they are. Maybe the illustrators didn't know either. lol.

"It's a trap!"

Again a blast shield thunders down, cutting Luke off from those he hopes to save...

Corridor by corridor, it continues...separating him even from artoo-detoo! Until at last there is only ONE PATH, leading to the carbon-freezing chamber...

and what Luke now realizes was inevitable.

Not that this means anything, just interesting.

adywan said:

Oldfan said:

I see what you mean, but then don't they have to travel the length of the tube that connects the fin to the wall of the chasm? Is it some kind of long hallway or is like a travel tube of some sort? How long is the tube anyways?

Ok this is the way i see it....

The workers in Cloud City seem to be the Ugnaughts while the rest seem to be residents (extra revenue & good business sense so income is not reliant on the gas mine). The Carbon chamber is located within the vane. To get to it you have to travel down a long shaft. Now the carbon chamber wouldn't be the only facility in the vane as this would serve some other purpose too to do with the mining the gas. Now travelling down the shaft to get to the facility doesn't seem stupid to me as it is a mine and the long shaft may symbolise the shaft that coal miners had to travel down each day. Now if you look at the city it does seem a very clean place and a place that the wealthy would reside (especially when you see the rest of the galaxy at that point in time). Wouldn't it make perfect sense to have the mining facilities and industrial sector tucked away in the bowels of the city?

After studying the movie it is clear that the carbon chamber is situated directly above the room with the window in the vane.

Not everything needs to be explained in movies. like i said before we don't need to see Luke travelling down the shaft. If everything was explained to the audience then what's left for their imagination? Maybe we could get a cameo of Ric Olie in this scene working in the vane and explain everything to the audience?. lol

 

 

I know you consider the books or guides EU, but they suggest the Freezing chamber that Han was frozen in was a showroom of sorts for could-be customers.

Anyone have images from the Complete Locations book of the vane cutaway?

adywan said:

Not everything needs to be explained in movies. like i said before we don't need to see Luke travelling down the shaft. If everything was explained to the audience then what's left for their imagination? Maybe we could get a cameo of Ric Olie in this scene working in the vane and explain everything to the audience?. lol

 

 

 Finally! that's wat i try to tell people when they question a  movie they see because they don't understand how it worked. Not everything in a movie needs to be explained people!

we're arguing over a weather vane! Wow! we should  argue whether the AT-AT's lasers should be green or red.

I don't need a movie to be completely explained to me, in fact, I always hate it when a movie is dumbed-down for an audience. However, I do feel that a major set-piece that becomes the primary focal-point for the last quarter of the film should be properly introduced to us so we understand where are heroes are in the city. That is my only complaint about this. We don't even see the outside of the vane until after Luke goes flying out the window. Up to that point, we have no idea where the chamber is, or where this is all happening. A mystery is one thing, but just leaving the audience discombobulated is something else.

Nice joke about the AT-AT lasers, by the way.

This is what the book actually says:

"Carbon-freeze chamber hood contains retrieval tongs for lifting a sample carbonite sled for inspection or demonstration for new customers."

adywan said:

i have decided that the design of the vane doesn't need to be radically changed.  I'm still going to be making a model of it, but this is more to get rid of the flat painting than anything else. I'm just going to make the dome at the top slightly larger to accommodate the chamber. The way i see the scene is this:

Luke enters the door and it closes, shutting R2 out. He then walks down the long shaft of the vane and the platform lift takes him up to the carbon chamber. Do we need to see him walking down the tunnel? no. Does all this need to be explained in the edit? Again, no.

Adywan, now that I see your description here, it's interesting to see how differently you've happened to envisage this particular scene over the years, compared to the way I've always thought of it as being.

It seems that once Luke has been 'manipulated' (as per Vader's earlier instruction) into entering the area / room that R2 gets shut out of, and when that shot then ends....you imagine that Luke then accesses the long extended 'arm' tunnel towards the main 'vane' structure somewhere during this point....before we cut immediately to the next shot where the footage shows Luke rising upwards in a shaft into the 'Carbon Chamber' room, which would rightly be now inside the main 'vane' structure, because of the way you imagine his movement 'in-between' this particular cut....which means that when Vader falls and Luke jumps downwards to go after him, the 'tunnel' that Luke is then seen entering and then exiting out of, is totally within the confines of the main 'vane' structure....which rightly brings him out in line with the 'round window' positioned at a lower level than the 'Carbon Chamber' situated above....

Whereas I always imagined the footage like this -  once Luke has entered the area / room that R2 gets shut out of, and when that shot ends....that unlike what the footage shows when we cut immediately to the next shot, I agree, Luke didn't rise directly upwards into the 'Carbon Chamber' at this point. 

(he was already quite high up on Bespin city, whereas we know the 'vane' seems situated nearer the bottom of the overall city, although having said that, Luke eventually seems to fall a very great distance from where that 'vane' is situated in the footage....)

Rather, I thought that there was indeed some kind of 'in-between' travel during the shots at this point, except I imagined that instead of him accessing the long extended 'arm' tunnel....that he'd ended up in a lower level somewhere, before then rising upwards in a shaft into the 'Carbon Chamber'....which was still somewhere within the confines of the city's main body, near the 'surrounding' wall where the 'vane' juts out from....before Vader falls and Luke jumps downwards to go after him, meaning that the footage of the 'tunnel' we then see Luke entering and exiting out of, would actually be the long extended 'arm' leading to the main body of the 'vane'....

In this instance, I discount what some 'reference' books claim is the exact location for the 'Carbon Chamber', because the actual footage can be interpreted in either of the above ways, as it stands.  There are good points for both versions, but neither seems to be without it's problems unfortunately -

In my scenario, the duel starts off in a secluded area (the 'Carbon Chamber') which is situated in a somewhat lower area of the city, before leading onto an even-more secluded and confined, nearby battle area (the main body of the 'vane'), due to Vader's unexpected fall, before ending on the outer ganty.  Due to there being three seperate locations during the action, this gives a feeling of Luke being draw gradually into an even tighter situation over the course of the duel....

This scenario removes the problem that the 'vane' is too 'narrow' to accomodate the 'Carbon Chamber' near it's top in the current footage, as now the 'Carbon Chamber' is not in the 'vane' itself, but inside the 'surrounding' structure around the 'vane'.

Unfortunately, one drawback is to this scenario is that the current footage shows that the long extending 'arm' to the 'vane' is not in line with the 'round window' which is beside where Luke is seen exiting out of the 'tunnel'.  (the new miniature 'vane' could be modified so that it is aligned, of course!)

As far as your own scenario goes, the duel starts and finishes in somewhat the same confined battle area (the main body of the 'vane'), but on different levels of it, due to Vader's fall, ending on it's gantry.  I guess that Luke is imagined to initially go downwards a fair bit in your version too, compared to his starting-off point higher up in the city (where R2 is stopped from following), before he reaches and enters (unseen by us) the long extended 'arm' located far below him at that point, which led him to the main body of the 'vane'....

Since a new miniature 'vane' is planned, the issue of how the 'Carbon Chamber' fits in, can be allowed for.  Although looking at some of the footage, the set looks like it was quite sizeable to me, so the adjusted miniature would probably need a sizeable modification to match.  I have no problem with that however, as it will certainly make the 'vane' consistent with the 'set' for this scenario.

The amount of characters seen in the 'Carbon Chamber' previous to the duel, throws up a visual question for me though.  We see that Vader....Boba Fett....some Stormtroopers....Lando Calrissian....Lobot....some Bespin Security Guards....a couple of Imperial Officers....some Ugnaughts....Han....Leia....and Chewbacca with C3PO on his back....are all seen in the 'Carbon Chamber' before the duel there.  One of the reasons I assumed that it was located seperately, nearby the 'vane', was because I assumed that the footage of the 'tunnel' that Luke enters, was meant to be the actual long extended 'arm' itself, and therefore not a straight-forward access point for so many to have come and gone also.  I thought that by being nearby, in the structure around the 'vane', that the 'Carbon Chamber' seemed easier for general access by this number of people, if located there instead.  Although there are other possible ways for them all to get to the 'Carbon Chamber' if it's inside the 'vane', a seperate location within the nearby city structure just seemed a more straight-forward proposition going by the amount of activiy earlier.

However, although you plan to make the 'Luke in tunnel' footage seem just a part of the inside of the main body of the 'vane' now, rather than it showing how Luke got from the main body of the 'city' to the main body of the 'vane'....I'll very much look forward to seeing the current inconsistencies fixed, where the 'vane' shot exteriors are concerned, to allow for your preferred scenario.

Keep in mind that the interiors of the falcon take some size fudging compared with the outside too.

Sevb32 said:

Keep in mind that the interiors of the falcon take some size fudging compared with the outside too.

You mean there's more of this stuff?  Damn you George Lucas!  ;)

That particular example never gave me quite the same baffling head-scratching uncertainty as the 'Carbon Chamber' location did.  It's an instance where I'll be glad to see Adywan show a version that will clarify things a little more, eventually.  I'm happy to unlearn what I thought I'd learned about it, if need be.  :)