doubleofive said:Speaking of crappy DVD covers (which the 2004 DVDs are pretty bad), have you really ever looked at the 97 SE posters? Now I love Drew Struzan, and he did do this in a hurry, but I don't know...
I love those posters. They're the main good thing about the SE (I suppose I could count the Biggs scene resoration too).
Vaderisnothayden said:They're the main good thing about the SE (I suppose I could count the Biggs scene resoration too).
The Bigg's scene wasn't a restoration... it was chopped up to match the prequels too.
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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:Vaderisnothayden said:They're the main good thing about the SE (I suppose I could count the Biggs scene resoration too).
The Bigg's scene wasn't a restoration... it was chopped up to match the prequels too.
I know it was chopped but most of the scene was put in the film.
I'm happy enough with the GOUT for now. I just hope people wisely don't buy the next new Star Wars set on blu-ray unless it has the original movies restored and deleted scenes.
I recently watched my cowclops (transferred using ntsc cld-97 I believe) Empire disc. It makes the Gout look like it really was properly restored. There's just too much video noise from the laserdisc player (even one of the real high end ones) that didn't compress well on a single layer dvd. The lack of compressed analog video noise makes a big difference. And the grain on the Gout isn't so bad, that shows where they didn't use DVNR. And the grain can be filtered out much better today than it could in 1993 anyways. The scene in Empire where Luke peers around the corner to see Han's frozen carbonite floated across the hall has no grain on the walls because it was smeared out. Much rather have the grain and no ghosting.
Even on an HD set, the Gout looks far better than cable tv. Especially the standard channels which look far worse on a flatscreen, equivalent to the average youtube video. Even standard def shown on an HD channel looks so much clearer than the same thing on a SD channel. It's like the Gout to bootleg difference. Same picture source but with far less junk and picture interference. So if people feel the unaltered dvd's are "unwatchable" on an HDtv, I hope they don't watch much actual television or else they'll be cringing like crazy.
Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77
Yeah, I'm relatively satisfied with the GOUT too. And by that, I mean that it's the best out of everything else I have: '95 VHS, '97 VHS, '04 DVD, and '95 LD rips. The GOUT even looks pretty good on the high def monitor on my computer, even when it's zoomed in. It's not great, but it's certainly watchable. In fact, the only moment that really pulls me out is that extreme moment of ghosting where the sandtrooper has two sets of eyes.
Of course, just to clarify, that doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the principle of the GOUT. Star Wars deserves better. The whole thing was a joke and an insult. I'm just saying that when I sit down to watch the trilogy, I do so with the GOUT because... as I said, sadly, that's the best there is, right now. It's definitely far below industry standard. It's just not as unwatchable as others might say.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Vaderisnothayden said:doubleofive said:Speaking of crappy DVD covers (which the 2004 DVDs are pretty bad), have you really ever looked at the 97 SE posters? Now I love Drew Struzan, and he did do this in a hurry, but I don't know...
I love those posters. They're the main good thing about the SE (I suppose I could count the Biggs scene resoration too).
I like the SW SE poster especially, I have one framed. I agree that they're probably the best thing about the SEs.
I'm happy with all the versions I have been able to acquire so far from myspleen as well as with all the officially released stuff. Love the star wars from the beginning and don't really see the point of complaining against the released stuff. All is welcome. I bought this nice poster and set it in this nice frame from IKEA:
http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?CID=726C977F6D7B4006BB5CF275558C9C00&APNum=1678160&SearchID=&vapnum=1678160&startat=/getPoster.asp
I recently bought the Empire GOUT Disc. I noticed the various instances of ghosting and these murky white blobs around all spacecraft. Is all this caused by the digital video reduction thing put on the "Definitive Collection" laserdiscs? What exactly is that thing anyway? The disc is certainly watchable-even blown up to 16:9. It's marginally better than my old tape set (Those were unfortunately fullscreen). For people wanting the original versions this is about as good as it gets at the present. Something occurred to me: Isn't there a better transfer of the Trilogy? What ever happened to the "One last time" 1995 THX release? Or maybe, gasp!, go back to the original negatives that had to be restored back in 1997 in order to do the first Special Edition!
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
To answer your question:
For the time being, no, there isn't a better video transfer of the unaltered versions. For the 2006 unaltered dvd release, Lucasfilm simply recycled the 1993 laserdisc master (which - to the best of anyone's knowledge on these forums - is the same transfer that was used for the 1995 "one last time" laserdisc). Their reasons were that "existing prints are in poor condition," which could mean anything.
After first watching the OOT 2006 DVD Trilogy and the then watching the 04' DVD Trilogy I'm really starting to like the cleaner, sharper picture of the 04' DVD versions. Although hopefully we'll get a 'cleaned-up' version of the OOT Trilogy someday.
Well, I just started the Jedi GOUT, and find that Jabba's dialogue no longer has the burned-in subtitles! What's up with that? Does this mean Greedo's dialogue in IV is unsubtitled as well?
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
Yes, it does. And that's one of my main annoyances with these and every other Star Wars DVD that's ever been made. It's especially a problem because the subtitles appear in the matte instead of the actual film. The matte doesn't exist in context of the film. It's simply there to take up space! Therefore, information pertinent to the film shouldn't be in something that's essentially a black hole. But it's there because Lucasfilm is filled with incompetent bastards. I have noticed that the prequel DVDs play with the subtitles in the frame proper when I play it on my widescreen computer, but it's still that shitty, jagged DVD-produced font that's just playing over the film rather than in it. Geez, Lucasfilm is so stupid.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Gaffer Tape said:Yes, it does. And that's one of my main annoyances with these and every other Star Wars DVD that's ever been made. It's especially a problem because the subtitles appear in the matte instead of the actual film. The matte doesn't exist in context of the film. It's simply there to take up space! Therefore, information pertinent to the film shouldn't be in something that's essentially a black hole. But it's there because Lucasfilm is filled with incompetent bastards. I have noticed that the prequel DVDs play with the subtitles in the frame proper when I play it on my widescreen computer, but it's still that shitty, jagged DVD-produced font that's just playing over the film rather than in it. Geez, Lucasfilm is so stupid.
Guess it makes it easier to do foreign versions. I also like the option to not have the words on the screen at all.
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Personally, if I was allowed to have the choice, I'd rather have the real, complete movie in its entirety than the ability to make nice screen grabs.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
The one thing that keeps getting me are those weird white blocks around every ship. The Battle of Endor is really dampened by this, especially in the one shot through the Falcon's cockpit gazing at all the oncoming TIEs. It's like one giant white glob what splits into fifty million little ones completely ruining the shot.
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
Yeah, those are known as garbage mattes, residuals from the process of optical compositing. They've always been there, but I'll be damned if I ever noticed them until the movies came out on DVD. They're definitely visible on the '04 DVDs (because that's the first time I ever noticed them).
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Hey everyone.
I need some help about the "GOUT".
Well, I was born in 1985 and I saw the OT when I was kid, and I think it was before 1997 (since EPI is from 99 and I was addicted a long time ago - in this galaxy).
So I guess that my VHS tapes weren't SE.
The thing is, I loved the Ewok Celebration ending the ROTJ, it was so epic. So when I've bought the 2004 DVDs I was so disappointed with the ROTJ that I wanted to smash it. I'm sure I'm not alone here ;)
+ with ANH I hate all those 3D monsters on Tatooine added for... nothing.
+ and so on and on...
It's there that you can help me, I guess that buying the GOUT would be the only way for me to experience what I saw as a kid ?
Or did I saw something else with small "remasters" back then ?
I don't really want to spend 40$ to get movies that I already own and get versions that I won't enjoy watching since the quality is too "crappy".
Is it possible that I saw the 93 versions on VHS tapes ?
Thanks for your help !
The GOUT would be the only way for you to experience the pre-1997 versions.
For Star Wars:
In 1981, the words "Episode IV: A NEW HOPE" were added to the title crawl and the words were re-formatted (including the capitalization of "rebel").
In 1997, the "3D monsters on Tatooine" were added, as was the Jabba scene, the Han/Greedo scene was altered to make Greedo fire when he never should have, the end battle was "enhanced" with extra CG shots, a short scene (that was chopped up to fit with the Vader-as-Luke's-father idea) with Biggs was added on the Yavin IV base, and many other, smaller changes were made.
In 2004, additional changes were made, in addition to incredibly fucked-up colors and a horribly "remastered" sound mix that included swapping the left and right surround channels for the music, for no apparent reason. All in the name of "deliberate creative decisions."
The GOUT uses the 1993 laserdisc audio instead of the theatrical mono or stereo audio, but other than that every change listed above is not present in the GOUT.
For Empire:
In 1997, more footage with the Wampa was inserted, which arguably ruins the suspense of the scene. Cloud City had CG "enhancements" added, including the addition of windows throughout the city that sometimes mysteriously disappear when ILM forgot they added some. Darth Vader's trip to his Star Destroyer was spliced in after the duel as well, using outtakes from ROTJ, again arbuably ruining the flow of the scene (and changing Vader's "Bring my shuttle!" line to "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival").
In 2004, Ian McDiarmid, while shooting ROTS, re-shot the Emperor hologram scene (originally Clive Reville's voice and an old woman's mouth with monkey eyes) in his horrid ROTS makeup that doesn't look a thing like his ROTJ makeup. Lines were added to this scene as well that - arguably - ruin it. Also, Boba Fett's lines were (again, arguably) horribly re-dubbed by Temuera Morrison (clone troopers/Jango Fett in AOTC/ROTS).
The GOUT includes none of these changes, but again, includes the 1993 laserdisc audio.
For Jedi:
In 1997, the Jabba's palace musical number Lapti Nek was replaced with Jedi Rocks, which sounds (arguably) awful, and Sy Snootles (singer) was replaced with a CG model. Other new CG creatures have been added to the band as well. Then, the original actress for Oola (the green dancer) was brought in to shoot additional scenes of her actually in the Rancor pit (you still don't see the Rancor). The Sarlacc was "enhanced" with a CG beak-looking thing coming out of it and extra CG tentacles. In the end celebration, instead of the Ewoks singing Yub Nub, John Williams re-scored it with a new, (arguably) more appropriate, New Age-y song.
In 2004, Sebastian Shaw's head has been replaced with an outtake of Hayden Christensen from ROTS in the Force-ghost scene. In the Vader unmasking scene, Sebastian Shaw's eyebrows have been digitally removed (this change I actually agree with). I don't think there were any other major 04 changes for ROTJ ...
The GOUT includes none of these changes.
So, if the version you grew up with didn't have all this shit in it, then yes, that's what you want. If you grew up with the 1997 versions, you're shit out of luck, unfortunately, as there is no official release of the original Special Editions on DVD.
The new "Star Wars Original Trilogy" DVD box that contains all 3 movies in 2-disc versions in slim cases with a blue outer box includes both the 2004 SE DVDs and the GOUT.
Thanks a lot for all these informations.
It's just that I've heard so many things saying that the GOUT wasn't worth buying it, but everytime I look the 2004 DVD I think "Damn you Lucas, you made dreams for us, and now you blow them up!"
Do you know where I could find screenshots comparing ROTJ's fight between Luke and the Rancor on the GOUT and the new edition ? (When the GOUT was released I saw them somewhere on the internet, now I can't find them)
One last thing about the GOUT : in France, the full trilogy box is around 40$, and if websites aren't wrong you get 6 DVD (each movie in 2004 version + GOUT).
But, if you buy them one by one (at a cost around 10$), you also get 6 DVD for a total cost of 30$.
So I think there's a pricing problem in France since you seem to get the same stuff ?
EDIT : on aptirrelevance.com, there's both NTSC and PAL screenshots from the GOUT. Why ? I can't see any difference between them...
The only difference between the 1983 and 2004 versions of the rancor fight (other than bad color timing in the 2004 DVD) would be the re-compositing and removal of matte lines in the 2004 version.
And I dunno why the prices work our that way in France, but any 2-disc release of the original trilogy contains both the 2004 DVD and the 2006 GOUT - and it's also the only way to get the 2006 GOUT.
I got them today and I've watched ROTJ. Damn that was great !
Ok the image is far from behind perfect, but it's stiil enjoyable even strechted to fill the screen. Faces are blurry when many characters are in the scene but hey, no problem, this is the real Star Wars :)
Does anyone know why Episode IV was removed from the DVD? I mean, it hasn't been on any video releases or anything and no one would have complained that it was there if that was the case, we would be just as happy (or unhappy) with the GOUT. It makes me wonder why dig up the scroll from somewhere and edit it to an LD craptastic video. What did LFL gain with that? Are they just showing that "we really have this on film but screw you anyways" and if so, what's the point in that?
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
I don't know. I was glad to see it without that revision, one that was so deeply entrenched, I didn't even know it was a revision until a few years ago.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
I'm of two minds about LFL's decision to release Star Wars without the "Episode IV" tag on the GOUT.
On the one hand, I'm very glad, as it means the video side is exactly what was seen in theaters in 1977 instead of more of GL's revisionist BS.
On the other hand, it pisses me off to no end that they clearly have a good-quality print of the original but didn't use it - after all, it's VERY clear that the entire first shot is a brand-new transfer from the original elements, and it looks pretty damn good. That alone was as much an insult to the fans as the decision to release the 1993 letterbox LD masters was - "Yeah, we *said* this is all we have, but we're gonna show you just a little bit of what we *really* have, just to show you that we *could* do what you ask, but we're not going to." Ugh.
I think the original crawl came about because it was sitting around after being partially used for Empire of Dreams. They may not have had a new print of the rest of the movie readily available. Of course that doesn't mean they can't do a new print, just that they were too lazy to spend any time or money digging up the rest of the stuff.
Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77
