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Info: OT Bootleg DVDs — Page 6

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patrick,

i just figured it was about time someone connected this thread with the one over at dvd help - the more links to information on how we can all help preserve the original 3 films in the best format possible (i.e. 16x9 widescreen & 2.0 pcm or 5.1 dd soundtrack) the better.

now, an open letter:

(!!warning - heavy rant about to happen!!)

i just joined the forum last week b/c of lucas' news to release the special edition dvds and wanted to give my two cents (not that anyone asked). i'm a film geek and in order to further the stereotype of my kind sounding pretentious, i think it's really important that the original 3 films exist in their original cuts for future generations to learn from. there are numerous examples in the first 30 years of cinema where classic, important films were either lost completely (like some early vampire films), or edited heavily by the studio and most of it lost (like greed - originally a 4 hour film by german director erich von stroheim - now only half exists) or banned by the political parties in power (like a few films by french director jean renoir, the son of the famous painter). so even though i appreciate lucas' right to make the films he originally wanted to, there are going to be people generations from now that will want to see and study these films as they were originally made and try to understand them in their original cultural context of the late seventies/early eighties. not only that, but future filmmakers won't have the ability to see how a great piece of movie magic was made without the ease of cgi if the SE editions are the only available versions. it's like that quote: "necessity is the mother of invention." al ot of the greatness of star wars comes from its ability to create something out of practically nothing and revolutionize the movie industry.

take all this with a grain of salt, but, if you watch some of the quick snipets explaining what changes lucas made on the special edition vhs tapes, its mentions again and again how the way the films were edited originally was because of limitations (like being able to not show the snow beast at the beginning of esb), and how these limitations might be the more artistic choice, but lucas really wanted to flesh these scenes out (which, IMO, ruins their creativity). scenes like han's conversation with jabba in mos eisley just don't have the same punch as they used to, and as much as i enjoy seeing the cities of courescant or mos eisley and more lively creatures, a lot of these extra scenes slow down the pacing of the movies and risks reducing them to empty spectacle (meaning the emphasis is more on showing scene after scene of strange looking creature, strange new world, or crazy cgi shot and less on storytelling). if lucas is serious about keeping the se editions of the films as the only versions, i respect his opinion but i also believe we lose an important part of our cultural history in the OT. so mainly, even though talking about making dvd "backups" of the original films may tick a lot of people off and not further this petition, i think we need to do as much as we can to save these films. (btw - this is where it's going to get really bad) there's going to come a point, maybe 50 or 80 years down the line, after lucas and probably most of us are not going to be around anymore and the only things left are going to be these movies, and i think it's important to have those future generations not think the original movies were just a bunch of weird special effects that don't seem to fit/look right (like han and jaba's conversation or greedo's magic blaster in ANH) and wonder why our generation(s) were so smitten by them. in a small way i think it'll reflect badly on us, not him. whether or not lucas realizes it or not, people are going to want to know what these films were like originally.

on a side note, one of the greatest films of all time (and the visual basis for almost every dracula film to follow), nosferatu, was almost completely lost to the world when bram stoker's widow ordered all negatives and prints to be destroyed because of its unauthorized adaptation of stoker's novel dracula. the only reason the film exists today was because a few people realized its importance and hid the few remaining prints that hadn't been destroyed. at the time no one thought it to be very important, yet today its thought to be one of the greatest horror films ever made. i see a big parallel between that and making sure these films are saved by preserving them on dvd.

this is probably all just hot air since lucas is just waiting to release the original films in some giant box set 5 or 10 years down the line, but as of right now i'm kinda nervous that he's really serious about destroying the OT in favor of the newer, "upgraded" versions.


....whew. okay. i'm done for now. soapbox mode off. sorry about that - i'm really not all bad, i swear. i'll try not to be all that serious from now on. there are other things in life after all...


btw - in case anyone's interested in seeing a cool foreign film, there's a great film out there called the hidden fortress by akira kurosawa which can show you how great storytelling can be without cgi special effects. it's kinda like star wars, but in feudal japan. hint, hint.
kill the body and the head will die.
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Originally posted by: phaedrus_001
btw - in case no one's ever heard of it, there's a great film out there called the hidden fortress by japanese director akira kurosawa which can show you how great storytelling can be without cgi special effects. hint, hint.

Damn right that's a great flick Phaedrus. So great, in fact, that I own it. God bless Criterion.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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oh, and luke,

...not that tr47 can't tell you himself, but when i contacted him he told me that he doesn't print any cases, but instead has a cdr where you can print out your own cover, insert, and disc label art. i think that's better than getting something pre-made since you have a choice as to which cover you want: whether you want the original poster art or something that's more in line with the prequel cover art so that the art design fits in with your collection. he may have changed things, but on the website he's linked to in his profile (click here) it says the discs themselves are blank so that you can label them however you want. it's also has great reviews of the various bootlegs already available.

i'm sure tr47 will chime in if anything's changed. i'm probably about to order my own copies too so i'll let you know what they're like. the only thing i'm worried about is whether or not he's the same guy as the person reviewing the discs on the prillaman.net website (which makes the review kinda biased), but i'm almost positive he's not. more than anything i'm just always paranoid about these things.

but, if he could post a shot of the yellow prologue text at the beginning of any of the three films it would help my decision greatly. ....puhleeez?
kill the body and the head will die.
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Please contact me directly either by PM or here if you want more info. I do provide a disc with many different covers, insert and disc art templates to choose from. As for screen shots, I did a comparison of mine to the ones posted at the Star Wars LD to DVD Project page here. Feel free to compare them yourself, but they're almost identical (I think mine are still better, though). The transfers I have did not have the gamma increased like those did so they appear slightly darker. I have viewed the actual LD myself and the transfers I have are almost identical, there is no significant difference. I did notice the stars are there in the opening sequence but they're faint; maybe this is because of the slight loss in capturing the data..? Here are more screen shots, they are the same scenes as the ones at the link above (except the last one, which is for Phaedeus):
http://atlas.imagemagician.com/images/tapix/shot1.JPG
http://atlas.imagemagician.com/images/tapix/shot3.JPG
http://atlas.imagemagician.com/images/tapix/shot2.JPG
http://atlas.imagemagician.com/images/tapix/shot4.JPG
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hehe,
thanks tr47.
very cool. i appreciate that.
kill the body and the head will die.
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Those look pretty good, TR47.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Yeah, they do. Remind me what you charge again.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Contact me directly as stated above if you're interested.
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Just so you know TR47. The email address you’ve provided above is kicking back a failed delivery message. I'll just PM you again.

Thanks,
M

“You know, when you think about it, the Ewoks probably just crap over the sides of their tree-huts.”

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TR47, please send me your email addy by PM.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Motti,

Just remember that TR47 only ships to U.S. addresses.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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I PM'd TR47 directly but haven't heard back. I'm interested in getting my hands on his versions as well, so please contact me TR47 if you see this. Thanks.
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My email is in the message above.
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TR47 can you tell me what the bitrate is when hit display on your DVD Player? I'm kind of curious since I believe they have PCM audio.

I'm thinking of redoing my Definitive Collection LD's. Mine look better on the TV than the pictures I posted, but I want to see how good I can make them.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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The bitrate varies, but it's usually around 4-5.5 Mbps, however the reason these are so good is not just because of bitrate, but because the Q level is very low, around 2-3 (which is a good thing).
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Q level? Explain for us mortals.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Anyone who has those on DVDR, but who isn't a redneck that won't send mail outside that whats-its-name patch of land between Canada and Mexico???
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so what r u asking?
lol
jk

he aint sending them out of the US for some reason... but if you are really interested you can check back here for a set of DVDs that will be sent anywhere in the world.... however no announcements have been made just yet...

"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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*is excited*

Luke Skywalker, you will be doing the Star Wars community a great service.

(Assuming we can prove we already own SW O-OT) You will have provided us with the long awaited OOT DVDs!
We will be eternally in your debt.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
you can check back here for a set of DVDs that will be sent anywhere in the world.... however no announcements have been made just yet...




When? And will they be the ones transferred from laserdisc, not VHS? And when? And if they're from laserdiscs, then will the interviews etc. from those versions be included? And when? How much? And when? What payment will you accept? And, since I haven't asked about this yet - *when*?


(I hope I didn't sound too rambling and overexcited. )
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Originally posted by: SammyTheBull
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
you can check back here for a set of DVDs that will be sent anywhere in the world.... however no announcements have been made just yet...




When? And will they be the ones transferred from laserdisc, not VHS? And when? And if they're from laserdiscs, then will the interviews etc. from those versions be included? And when? How much? And when? What payment will you accept? And, since I haven't asked about this yet - *when*?


(I hope I didn't sound too rambling and overexcited. )


patiences, all we be revealled by mid summer. They will be made from the Laserdiscs and be a very classy release. Thats all we'll say for now.

And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Well be thankful Luke and I chose to say anything at all.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
Q level? Explain for us mortals.


I'll do my best. Hopefully, TR47 will let me know if I am right or wrong on this and jump in. The Q stands for quantization. Q-Level is a bit tricky. In MPEG terms, it describes how much information is thrown away to reach a target bitrate that you set. My encoder, TMPENGEnc Plus, describes the q as quality.

So, my basic understanding is that if you set the proper Q-Level for your bitrate, you won't be throwing away too much information and degrade the output quality. I'm rusty on this because I use 2 pass Variable bitrate instead of Constant Quality which is the encoding method that you set the Q-Level or Quality Level from 0 to 100.

For more information, check this link.

Hope this helps.

BTW, I'm experimenting with recapturing my LD set. I don't know if I can match TR47's, but I know I can do better than my own previous effort.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly