The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 58

yeah sswr, that makes sense.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

I've been sitting on this for a while...not sure if I should show it...but I thought it might get some conversation going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsxwtYG1Dhk

(Give it a minute to finish uploading)

This is absolutely PERFECT. The two scenes work really well side by side, mention of saving padme is subtle, and no freaking midichlorians!

Also, whilst it's a bit rough at the moment, I love the dramatic musical cue at the end, with Palpatine just smiling (rather than the needless explanation of "power to save padme" there was before)

this video made me spit out my cereal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXSYbB5Z6-4&feature=related

DuTwan said:

I agree makes this quest for power more valid than this lust to save Padme. Episode 3 shud have been him falling from a great pilot and friend of Obi Wan to Vader but all we see is a whiny git that ppl didnt really like anyways, one way that could of fixed Hayden's bad acting wud of been change of actor. Imagine this:

 

Hell. We should just delete Hayden completely and reshoot his part ourselves. Anyone got a green screen? :P

I see your point, brash_stryker. I don't mind that Anakin's turn was a conscious decision. Vader himself in the OT was a pretty calculated villain, who wasn't constantly "drunk" on the Dark Side whenever he killed anyone.

That said, I agree with you that there isn't a good sense of Anakin being turned. I don't think the problem is his motivations though: it's because he already is a pretty dark character at the start of ROTS: he already has a case of genocide below the belt, and just let himself being goaded into killing an unarmed man. After he has turned to the Dark Side, he does the same things: comitting genocide (the Jedi) and killing unarmed people (the kids and the Separatists). 

I think this can be helped if we "nicen" Anakin up, starting back in AOTC: cut him talking back at Obi-Wan in the elevator and in Padme's apartmant, cut him arguing with Padme in front of the Queen, add the scenes with Padme's family (Anakin at his nicest here, I think), tone down his creepiness around Padme, imply, but don't show the Tusken slaughter and cut the following confession.

Same goes for ROTS: cut down his whiny and brooding moments (what little there is) before the turn, and take out every display of emotion after the turn, such as him crying on Mustafar.

If we are going to make Anakin's distrust of the Jedi a big factor in his turn, here's my suggestion: after Mace sends Anakin away to inform Palpatine that Obi-Wan has engaged Grievous, let him overhear the following conversation between the Jedi about the possibility of having to force Palpatine from office and taking over the Senate. If I'm right, you can even see Mace looking over, to see if Anakin has left yet. It could fit perfectly. I'm sure there is some blue scene footage of Anakin on the ROTS DVD that we could use.

Anakin overhearing this conversation could work nicely with the earlier scene with him and Palpatine at the opera house, when Anakin confesses the Jedi don't trust Palpatine, and Palpatine accuses them of being against democracy and the Senate. It would also be nicely paid off in the turning scene where Mace as Palpatine at saberpoint and Palpatine says "I told you the Jedi were taking over".

SilverKey said:

I see your point, brash_stryker. I don't mind that Anakin's turn was a conscious decision. Vader himself in the OT was a pretty calculated villain, who wasn't constantly "drunk" on the Dark Side whenever he killed anyone.

That said, I agree with you that there isn't a good sense of Anakin being turned. I don't think the problem is his motivations though: it's because he already is a pretty dark character at the start of ROTS: he already has a case of genocide below the belt, and just let himself being goaded into killing an unarmed man. After he has turned to the Dark Side, he does the same things: comitting genocide (the Jedi) and killing unarmed people (the kids and the Separatists). 

I think this can be helped if we "nicen" Anakin up, starting back in AOTC: cut him talking back at Obi-Wan in the elevator and in Padme's apartmant, cut him arguing with Padme in front of the Queen, add the scenes with Padme's family (Anakin at his nicest here, I think), tone down his creepiness around Padme, imply, but don't show the Tusken slaughter and cut the following confession.

Same goes for ROTS: cut down his whiny and brooding moments (what little there is) before the turn, and take out every display of emotion after the turn, such as him crying on Mustafar.

If we are going to make Anakin's distrust of the Jedi a big factor in his turn, here's my suggestion: after Mace sends Anakin away to inform Palpatine that Obi-Wan has engaged Grievous, let him overhear the following conversation between the Jedi about the possibility of having to force Palpatine from office and taking over the Senate. If I'm right, you can even see Mace looking over, to see if Anakin has left yet. It could fit perfectly. I'm sure there is some blue scene footage of Anakin on the ROTS DVD that we could use.

Anakin overhearing this conversation could work nicely with the earlier scene with him and Palpatine at the opera house, when Anakin confesses the Jedi don't trust Palpatine, and Palpatine accuses them of being against democracy and the Senate. It would also be nicely paid off in the turning scene where Mace as Palpatine at saberpoint and Palpatine says "I told you the Jedi were taking over".

That could work VERY nicely. The only problem with this I see is the bit about the Jedi having to take over the republic "to maintain a peaceful transition". WHY?! We saw in Episode 1 that as soon as a Chancellor was removed from office, another was immediately elected in his place. Mace only said this because George's shitpile of a plot needed him to, so in my opinion, this part needs to be cut so he merely says about removing him from office. NOT the Jedi taking control. I think this would still suffice as something for anakin to overhear though, as not only are they talking about interfering with government, but they are also excluding him.

And also, yes, one of the other big problems of his turn is that the audience already see Anakin as a complete asshole anyway. If we can tone down the whining/bitching/creepiness in AOTC, then his turn can be a bit more shocking and we might actually start to LIKE him. Also, that Anakin with Padme's family scene, in AOTC whilst being a bit cheesy, works very well in the Phantom Editor's edit, and actually makes us like the guy, so I see this scene as a must for replacing much of the gag worthy and wooden romance scenes.

I think the tusken murdering scene needs to be left in, whether in full, or as you say implied. It's a powerful, and character defining scene- he's not necessarily an asshole, but overwhelmed by his anger and grief. What definitely needs to change is Padme knowing about it and still loving the guy. It should be a secret weighing down on him, and the only person he's confided in about it is palpatine.

SilverKey said:

I think this can be helped if we "nicen" Anakin up, starting back in AOTC: cut him talking back at Obi-Wan in the elevator and in Padme's apartmant, cut him arguing with Padme in front of the Queen, add the scenes with Padme's family (Anakin at his nicest here, I think), tone down his creepiness around Padme, imply, but don't show the Tusken slaughter and cut the following confession.

Same goes for ROTS: cut down his whiny and brooding moments (what little there is) before the turn, and take out every display of emotion after the turn, such as him crying on Mustafar.

You'd probably enjoy my fanedits of EP2 and EP3 ("Twilight of the Republic" and "The Black Knight Rises", respectively), since I do most of the changes that you talked about here (except that I completely cut out the Tusken Raiders subplot and Shmi is already dead and buried when Anakin arrives on Tatooine).

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

This is good stuff SilverKey! Also I agree with brash_stryker about the "to maintain a peaceful transition" line.

Thanks for the feedback on the vid brash_stryker! :D

Yeah, so talking about that scene with Mace saying "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi"...how do you guys feel about redubbing Mace for the PT? I think it could go a long way...not only for his character but for the plot as well. Thoughts?

Not sure how doable redubbing mace entirely would be, along with what it would actually achieve. The lines would afterall be the same, right?

Who's for removing the scene with Watto saying he sold Shmi, and just having Anakin turn up at the Lars Homestead? (as well as cutting the wooden introductions from Owen and the one from Cliegg) That way it can be assumed that the Jedi/Anakin came back to at least free the poor woman after the events of episode 1.

I was thinking that this way perhaps it would just be assumed by the audience that he'd freed her, and knew her whereabouts.

Makes more sense her having been freed than him saying "I don't know why I keep dreaming about her"

Errrrr, how about because you left her high and dry enslaved on tatooine, you evil bastard?

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

 Keep his lines the same? oh no no no! Well, some would stay the same  ;)  But that is the beauty of dubbing! I will work on a video to show you what I'm thinking...

Do you mean, along the lines of having him say his lines normally whenever we see his lips move, but whenever there's a cutaway (or an editing opportunity for one) having new lines?

Much like I imagine Trooperman's (if I'm not mistaken) edit is doing with Anakin's dialogue. He's definitely someone who needs to be dubbed. His voice just grates on me so much. Sounds whiny even when he's not whining.

Also, going back to my point on Padme being his reason for turning to the dark side:

^ LOL

Shmi not being freed after TPM is a big plothole. Especially Padme could have sent someone back to Tatooine to make sure Shmi would be alright, since she cared for Anakin, and owes him a little for helping her save her planet.

Maybe Obi-Wan could mention she was freed (but is still on Tatooine) when the subject is brought up in Padme's apartment. It could go something like this: "I don't know why I keep dreaming about her" - "Anakin, we freed her after Naboo, you're going to have to trust everything is fine with her", or something to that effect. I don't think we can make that work with the material we have though.

However, if we could make this work, that would solve the entire issue. I'd still keep in the Watto scene, because it's one of the few scenes that connects AOTC to TPM, just edit it down. Have Anakin ask Watto if he knows what happened to Shmi after she was freed. Maybe we could shuffle Watto's lines around to have him say "I heard she married a moisture farmer named Lars...at least I think it was Lars".

Again, very difficult to do, but it would do a lot for the story if we could make it work.

ahh geocities. good times. watto was one of the redeeming features of TPM and AOTC for me.

"force powers dont work on me, only money!"

always reminds me of something an NPC in some RPG would say when you try to attack them when you shouldnt.

maybe he could just flap about the background in jabbas palace. a bit unecessary, but there arnt many flying creatures in the OT for obvious reasons, whereas in TPM we get watto and the geonosians.

Watto is a great character indeed, that's why I wouldn't want him to be cut from AOTC.

Having him in Jabba's palace in ROTJ would be pretty cool. Doesn't have to be anything big, just show him in the background. I even remember rumors that we would see Watto hanging around Jabba's palace in AOTC, when the movie was in production.

brash_stryker said:

Also, going back to my point on Padme being his reason for turning to the dark side:

 

 That's the whole point. The Dark Side twists and corrupts. There is no 'but I did it for such and such a good reason.' The Dark Side is an insidious cancer.

TheBoost said:

 That's the whole point. The Dark Side twists and corrupts. There is no 'but I did it for such and such a good reason.' The Dark Side is an insidious cancer.

Exactly. Which is why Anakin giving rational reasons for turning to the dark side does not work.