I found this a surprise. Especially since Trek is getting the kind of positive reviews you only see films get almost never. The last being the dark knight.
I have not seen t4 yet. But based on the preview trailer it looks like pure cgi garbage. Sure T2 had some over the top cgi but it was not the whole movie. To me as a James Cameron Terminator fan this movie will either suck or not suck based on how faithful it is to the first 2 films.
Still there is no way it could possibly be as bad as the phoned in garbage that T3 was.
Absolutely hard to believe that a fun actioner like JJ's Star Trek is the best film so far of 2009. And i think this is to his credit. Nobody believed he could pull it off.
Trek will end up being the only film out of a ton of action films of the summer that had any heart at all. Unless T4 really delivers. Transformers 2 will be a good waste of 2 hours and nothing more. It will be pure eye candy.
Still T4 not the worst film out. That would be either Wolverine or night at the museum 2.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Well, I went to see it. I hated T3 and really, really, really wanted to like this one. During the first twenty minutes of non-stop action and extremely annoying shakey cam BS, I was pretty sure I'd be making a post talking about how disappointing it was. But actually, I really liked it. It had its flaws. The camera movements really made it hard to enjoy. Sure, they want you to be disoriented and to feel like you are part of the action. But I don't want to be part of the action, I want to sit down and enjoy the story. This film was obsessed with P.O.V. shots, all of which had to bob about wildly. That was really annoying. Usually while watching films on my small TV, I think how awesome it would be to be watching it on a big cinema screen, but while watching this thing on the big screen, I kept wishing I was watching it on my tiny TV. The "documentary" style camera movement really hurt this film to a far greater degree than it should have. Crazy to go through all the work to make a film like this, then to try your damnedest to ruin it with creative decisions like this.
The story worked well enough for me. I keep hearing critics talk about the story not making sense, I wish they would be more specific, because I felt it was pretty strait forward. SPOILER ALERT: I assume they are talking about the leaders of the resistence being so determined to destroy the machine factory, even though they know there are hoards of human prisoners being held there. I thought that was kind of weak, especially considering the fact that the human race is suppose to be heading towards extinction. You'd want to save as many as possible, not simply blow them all up as unavoidable casualties of war. Beyond this dumb bit of the story, it all made perfect sense to me. And unlike Star Trek's plot, this one, linear as it was, at least had decent motivation behind it (again, except for the leaders determination to blow the factory to hell without even giving a second thought to saving the prisoners).
I really liked the character of Marcus, and his plot twist was really cool. But unfortunately they felt the need to spoil the plot twist in the trailer, so it wont be a surprise to anyone.
I liked the kid who played Kyle. Perfect casting IMHO. I thought Bale did a great job as Connor. Bryce Howard, an actress I usually really don't care much for, also felt perfectly cast as Kate Brewster.
The vast amount of fan service in this film got old fast. I smiled when young Kyle delivered the famous "come with me if you want to live" line to Marcus. It worked for me, after all, it is the same character. But then the references just kept coming. I felt like groaning when John said, "I'll be back!". I was half expecting him to say, "You're Terminated, Fucker!" during his fight with the T-800 at the end, and was relieved when he didn't. Also glad the line "Hasta la vista, baby!" didn't make its way into the film, but just about every other famous Terminator line seemed to.
Beside the annoying camera movements, the biggest complaint about the film I had was its severe lack of dialogue. A little bit more character development could have been used and would have improved the film immensly. I am hoping there was a lot of this sort of thing filmed that ended up on the cutting room floor that is just sitting around waiting to be included on the DVD. I also have high hopes that we might get an "unrated" special edition DVD, or something along those lines. I can't help but feel some things were cut down to get a PG-13 rating.
Also the ending felt like a "Dark Knight" sort of ending. Very unsatifying. I was fine with the idea of Marcus sacrificing himself to save John, but doing this by having him offer his heart to John was a bit weak. Think it would have worked better if he had died saving John or Kyle in the heat of battle.
A final thing I'd like to mention is Arnold's "cameo". I have to say, it was pretty cool to see him in the film looking pretty much exactly like he did in the first film. But as good as it looked, it looked obviously CG. It looked bad enough now, I'd hate to see how awful it will look five years from now. Ultimately, this little surprise was just another piece of fan service that really wasn't needed. The scene could have worked just as well had a non-skinned T-800 stepped out of that chamber. Nothing wrong with it being Arnold, if fact, it was a cool concept. I just don't think the CG worked that well.
I am sorry to see critics ragging on this film so harshly, especially when they give such high praise to films like "Transformers" and "Star Trek". I think the existence of the Sarah Connor Chronicles may have a lot to do with this film being received so poorly. A new sequel is one thing, but a new sequel and a mediocre television series all in the same year is something else entirely. Too much of something good is never a good thing; too much of something that is just okay is even worse.
Final verdict, I liked it infinitely more than T3. I really hope this is the last film. I don't want to see any sequels. It could have been better, but I still liked it. Certainly not on par with T1 or T2, but it is a nice little spin-off for guys like me who just can't get enough Terminator (except when it is T3, even one second of that film is too long for me). I enjoy this the same way I used to enjoy SW novels. Can't consider it truly part of the overall story, but it is a nice little expansion on the story.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
I haven't seen it yet, but there's one aspect of it that I already know about that I just can NOT forgive:
Skynet knowing that Kyle is John's father. That alone is bad enough.
But then ... they use Kyle as bait to draw out John ... when they could just fucking KILL KYLE, thereby killing John! WTF?! Ugh ...
So yeah, I'm pretty predisposed to disliking it.
Well, that gets into the whole time paradox loop-de-loop chicken-and-egg thing. No matter which way they went with it - kill Kyle or not - you end up with either a plot hole or a continuity hole.
If they kill him, then not only do we not have this film, but the other three films now become non-existent as well.
I guess the only way it could work is if Skynet kills Kyle, at which point the film just abruptly ends and the theater lights come up. ;-)
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
Solution: Skynet shouldn't know about him to begin with. Easy as pie. No time-paradoxes to worry about.
Though if you want to get technical, before T3 came out, the end of T2 was a huge paradox: If John and Sarah had really prevented the war, how could John have been born?
That's what I mean. Something has to give one way or the other, so just pick a side and move on.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
ChainsawAsh said:I haven't seen it yet, but there's one aspect of it that I already know about that I just can NOT forgive:
Skynet knowing that Kyle is John's father. That alone is bad enough.
But then ... they use Kyle as bait to draw out John ... when they could just fucking KILL KYLE, thereby killing John! WTF?! Ugh ...
So yeah, I'm pretty predisposed to disliking it.
See the movie before you decide to let that bit bother you. It isn't exactly as it was explained to you. Kyle's name is on a Skynet hit list, but it is never explained or suggested that it is because he is John's father. My assumption was that he was on there because he is the one John sent back to protect himself. That makes perfect sense to me. Skynet sends back an Terminator to kill Sarah Connor, John sends back a soldier to protect her, Skynet attempts to kill that soldier while he is still a teenager before John can even meet him let alone send him back in time. This doesn't mean John won't send back someone else, but to Skynet it does mean things will happen differently, which gives them a chance at success. It is perfectly reasonable to assume Skynet would try to eliminate Kyle.
By the time Kyle is used as bait, John has already talked to Marcus and told him that he needs to find Kyle, I believe he even mentioned that Kyle was his father. Marcus interfaces and syncs with Skynet's computers to find out where Kyle is being held. It is reasonable to assume that they got that information from Marcus.
Alternatively, both Sarah and Reese were at one point locked away in institutions where they ranted about Judgement Day and time travel, this information was filed away in records. It is possible that Skynet looked up these files, and discovered some connection there. I'd still go with my first explaination though.
I suppose these paradox problems depend on if you take these events as creating alternative timelines, or if you take them as a mobius strip. The first film obviously went with the mobius strip idea. John is concieved because the man he sent back in time impregnated his mother. Skynet is made because parts of the Terminator they send back in time were discovered and reverse engineered. The end is the beginning and the beginning is the end.
Terminator 2 broke the whole mobius strip thing with the whole "No fate..." bit. The original ending to that film had an old Sarah explaining that Judgement Day never came. This works just fine and paradox free (realitively speaking) if you consider it coil or a screw instead of an endless loop. With things playing out a little differently each time the game is played. This can also explain away the paradox of the first film. If you consider originally that Sarah might have had a son, named him John, and he later grows to become the leader of the resistance and good friends with Kyle Reese. He sends Kyle back in time to prevent a Terminator from killing his mom before he is born, and Kyle ends up telling her she will have a son named John who will grow up to be the leader of the resistance against Skynet. He gets her pregnant, and she has a son, names him John, and he becomes the leader of the resistance because he grows up hearing that that is what he is going to be. This John could be a completely different John from the one that originally sent Kyle back to protect his mom.
Terminator 3 comes along and teaches us that you cannot make your own fate as the second film suggested, and that the inevitable is inevitable. No matter what you do, you cannot stop what is destined to be, all you can do is potentially delay it for a few years.
In Terminator Salvation you have John talking about this not being the future his mother told him about. This suggests that things are completely different from the future Kyle came from and told Sarah about.
I think it is obvious the films have officially done away with the mobius strip and adopted a shifting timeline, or even multiple timelines. Each and everytime they screw around with the past, things in the future change. The TV show, which is a completely different continuity from the films explicitly explains that this is the case.
With this take on time travel, Kyle could be killed off as a teenager, and John could still be born, because in his own past Kyle already went back and had relations with his mother. John wouldn't disappear or cease to exist, but now a new timeline will be created in which he is never born and never leads the resistance because Kyle is never sent back.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
skyjedi2005 said:Sure T2 had some over the top cgi but it was not the whole movie.
It also made sense where it was used, so it wasn't really a problem.
To me as a James Cameron Terminator fan this movie will either suck or not suck based on how faithful it is to the first 2 films.
Suck or not suck. Wow, it's got a 50/50 chance of not sucking. Sounds like every movie ever made.
Still T4 not the worst film out. That would be either Wolverine or night at the museum 2.
And what exactly was wrong with Wolverine? I thought they did a great job. Other than maybe a little character overload, the rest of the movie was pretty good.
Movie Review
Terminator Salvation (2009)
Thar be Spoilers below:
Christian Bale a grimacing, smoldering, action-cypher for most of the movie. The problem is that the guy who plays Marcus is much better at doing the same thing. John Connor has become a quasi-mesiah type figure who gives fireside chats like FDR did during the war. The notion that he's seen as a false prophet by some (including a sadly misused Michael Ironside) doesn't ring true. The mythology of the first film indicated that humankind was near extinction when Connor took charge and brought things back from the brink. He thus presumably organized the resistance himself--he didn't rise to leadership after other, less effective leaders were killed. And the masses didn't follow him because he was a "messiah". As far as they knew, he was just an everyman who rose to a potion of greatness because he merited it.
I did kinda like Connor's "fireside chats", though. I can totally see that working in the context of what we're told about him in the first two movies. While John was not really a commander in the movie, he was a big deal in the alliance resistance as a communications personality, a consultant, and as the leader of his own outfit that had A-10's assorted helicopters, and experience in overwhelming machines and rescuing human captives. The actual commanders seemed to think he was nuts and a loose cannon but they did value his participation and contributions in the war against Skynet. By the end he is in a reasonable position to assume command and probably tighten the organization up and formalize it into the force that would eventually defeat Skynet.
Sam Worthington is pretty solid, and his character's arc is interesting, but the whole notion of this elaborate infiltration plan is utterly absurd. I would have preferred he stayed a mystery but overall the movie gives the audience enough to be satisfied. Marcus is a tragic figure part machine-part man. A man out of time. He finds a cause in his new life that he seems a little too eager to give up his heart and get out of this future that he never should have seen. (I guess that in 2018 there is no available artificial heart technology.)
The young Arnold CGI is really impressive. The T-800 battle at the end is pretty darn good, and is a solid reminder of just how cool the original Terminator was--who needs the gimmicks of the T-1000 or T-X? That classic design still works. Of course, Reese (from 2029) said in the first movie that the T-800s were new, but here, we see that they were developed 11 years earlier. Also, Reese said that the T-600s had rubber skin, but here, they just wear rubber masks and tattered clothes.
There are many visual references to the previous films: The origin of Connor's scar, the T-800 struggling to walk as it's being frozen, "I'll be back", etc. To the filmmakers' credit, some of these are more subtle than they could have been. Others aren't.
The problems
It's not clear whether SkyNet knows that Reese is Connor's father. At the very least, SkyNet seems to know that Connor has some kind of vested interest in Reese, and therefore uses him as bait. If it does know that he's Connor's father, then the movie is completely and utterly stupid, because SkyNet should have taken the opportunity to kill Reese and change the future instead of crafting elaborate plots to lure Connor to SkyNet Central or sending Terminators back in time.
Also, why would Connor be stupid enough to tell anyone about his knowledge of Reese's eventual role as his father? That's a major tactical boo-boo, since that info could possibly get back to SkyNet. The first two films make it clear that Connor knows everything about Reese and the paradox, and has to keep quiet so as to allow Reese to live and volunteer to be sent back in time and complete the circle.
I have a hard time believing that the resistance command didn't consider that Skynet might have a really simple defense against the shortwave shut down code like rotating the codes, having a time period in which shut down was not accepted, or jamming the shortwave signal or whatever. No one seems to really know how radio signals and tracking them should work in this movie. Subs broadcast theatre-wide short wave signals while under water? Why was resistance command directly involved in the operation at all? Have they never heard of compartmentalization? And wasn't it established that John is a super computer geek. He shoulda at least known. It just seemed like a really lame plan. Sure it was a ruse but who'd fall for it? The Resistance is an informal and voluntary as it seems to be. "Sir, the bombers won't launch until Conner gives the order" is kinda odd in this harsh realm.
Why was Skynet using the captured people held in the hole under the radar site as nuke bait for Conner's Tech-Com force or for T-800 style cyborg tissue/behavior research ? Was skynet hauling people to its Tower/T-800 production base as bait to draw out Conner, as human shields for the expected Resistance bombing mission, for research purposes, or to train them to work in extermination centers? Maybe they needed some people for the T-800 to hang out with to see if they'd notice he wasn't one of them? Kyle was supposed to have been a super commando at an extermination facility where he got his barcode brand. That doesn't seem to have happened yet. He just got picked out, tossed into a cell, and rescued. I also note that no mention was made of his having a brother named Derek so I guess that's a signal about the importance of the TV show. A real missed opportunity in my opinion.
Did John, by mouthing off to the unknowingly wired Marcus, make Skynet AWARE of him and his destiny and the upcoming time travel capability ? Why would Skynet believe him ? It seems like Resistance Command already knew about a Skynet kill list that had Kyle at #1 and John as #2. If the TV show didn't happen then how does younger Skynet even know about John Conner ? Are Conner's Tech-Com buddies a threat because they are so effective or does Skynet already know the future?
The movie is very choppy, without a genuinely engaging through-line. It doesn't have the same emotional pull that the first two movies had. It feels more like a story constructed around setpieces and plot twists, and looks like a video game. As many reviewers have said, the humanity so crucial to Cameron's films is missing. And we really don't even get any good Terminator action until the end. So what's the point, besides setting up a few more lifeless sequels?
Not as bad as t3 by a long shot. Also not as bad as the critics are making out of it.
Still it is no Jim Cameron Terminator film. It is not the masterpeice T-2 is claimed to be. Or the low budget mind blowing thriller the original was. But it does well what it does on its own merits. Also a whole lot better than people thought MCG would be able to pull off. But good actors. Supposedly good writers. Help out quite a bit. Also the Stan Winston studio. R.i.P. Stan.
Then you have the movie trying as hard as possible to remain faithful to the first 2 films and to very properly deny the existence of T3. Also they avoided the pitfall of linking it to the now cancelled tv series.
This film is not a complete story and does not stand well on its own. It needs a bit of slack cut for it and the director because it is just a lead into the other 2 films in the trilogy. The cool future war with the scenes shown at the beginning of t2 is yet to be filmed. This film is at an earlier point technologically. Perhaps the 800 series is the army in the next film. Arnold has said he would like to be in the second or third film once his career as governor is over. I wonder if his age is a problem now though?
Still i would have preferred a Canon T3 directed by James Cameron and starring linda hamilton. But fate denied us that.
I always thought because arnolds arm was ripped off by the t-1000 in a piece of machinery and a part of him that was not melted down. Cyberdyne could still exist and the terminator be readiscovered.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
I did notice one mistake where someone screwed up dates. At one point, Kyle says he was born in 1975.
The movie takes place in 2018. That puts Kyle at 43 years old in the film. Kyle gets sent back to 1984 from 2029. That means Kyle is 54 when he goes back to save Sarah.
Methinks Kyle was supposed to have said 1995. That makes him 23 in this film and 34 when he saves Sarah.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
Ziz said:I did notice one mistake where someone screwed up dates. At one point, Kyle says he was born in 1975.
The movie takes place in 2018. That puts Kyle at 43 years old in the film. Kyle gets sent back to 1984 from 2029. That means Kyle is 54 when he goes back to save Sarah.
Methinks Kyle was supposed to have said 1995. That makes him 23 in this film and 34 when he saves Sarah.
Nah that just a stupid retcon on the part of MCG. I think 1984 was originally used perhaps because of the novel by George Orwell, or maybe just a coindidence is likely the year the film was made.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088247/
The Terminator (1984)
Yeah, I guess it is just a random coincidence. ',:-\
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
skyjedi2005 said:Ziz said:I did notice one mistake where someone screwed up dates. At one point, Kyle says he was born in 1975.
The movie takes place in 2018. That puts Kyle at 43 years old in the film. Kyle gets sent back to 1984 from 2029. That means Kyle is 54 when he goes back to save Sarah.
Methinks Kyle was supposed to have said 1995. That makes him 23 in this film and 34 when he saves Sarah.
Nah that just a stupid retcon on the part of MCG. I think 1984 was originally used perhaps because of the novel by George Orwell, or maybe just a coindidence is likely the year the film was made.
This may be completely pointless, but for some reason I like figuring these things out, so here it goes anyway:
It's stated explicitly in T1 that it takes place in 1984, on May 12 (at least that's the day Kyle arrives). T2 is harder to pinpoint, but the most likely is 1994 (though for John to be 10, it would have to be 1995, since the police computer gives his birthdate as February 1985, which corroborates the May, 1984 timetable of T1), based on the "3 years until Judgment Day" speeches, and the fact that Judgment Day is supposed to happen in 1997.
T3 is a mess, though - John claims that he was 13 when T2 happened, which would put it at 1998 (obviously wrong). I think it's clearly stated that it takes place in 2003, though, which would make John 18 or 19, and means Judgment Day actually happened in 2003. But all of this is fixed in Uncanny Antman's Terminator 3: The Coming Storm edit, which removes all references to John's age.
And as much as McG likes to say he ignored T3 completely, he didn't - Kate Connor is clearly Kate Brewster from T3. And, well, Judgment Day happened.
T4 takes place in 2018, which would make John 33 or 34. That also means he'd be 44 or 45 in 2029, when he sends Kyle back.
Michael Biehn was 28 when T1 came out, so it's safe to say that Kyle was about 30 when he was sent back. This means that he would have to have been born around 1999-2001. This also fits with what Kyle says in T1, that he was born after Judgment Day (though in the new, T2-altered timeline, he would have been born a couple years beforehand). And this makes Kyle about 17-19 in 2018, which fits well enough with Anton Yelchin's age.
Whew ... I think I'm done now. I still haven't seen T:S yet, I might bite the bullet and do that tomorrow. I'll pop in Uncanny Antman's T3 edit in the morning, since that's the only one I haven't watched recently, and it'll lower my expectations nicely before I see the new one (while UA's edit improves the movie substantially, it's still a shitty movie, and nothing can be done about that).
Shawn of the Deli said:
There is that great scene where Kyle returns to resistance "hide-out". He is exhausted. The humans are, by and large, NOT soldiers. Old people, young people, all of them dirty and sickly and looking like hunted animals. We hear people weeping all around. Then the Terminator shows up and just lays waste to the to the place. The scene is bleak and horrible and drives home how desperate everything is in this future. Terminator: Salvation never gets close to that. Most everyone is a soldier toting around full special forces gear. They have jets and hangars and submarines. Instead of feeling like humans are on the brink of extinction, we get what looks like GI Joe fighting Transformers in the desert.
This kind of makes sense with what we know of the changing timeline from the TV series. Instead of it being a rag tag group of people that are caught up in the mess, it's a bunch of people that have been sending other people back in time for a while, increasing each others knowledge of what's to come and changing things along the way. I don't think the TV show ever outright says it, but it's heavily implied that each time someone else goes back, something in the future ends up different (a new timeline is created). C3PX explained it perfectly and it seems like the movie is going along with that idea.
I didn't care for it. It had its moments, but it was TERRIBLY edited (partly to make it PG-13, partly for no apparent reason at all). I liked all the references to the previous movies, but they made me want to watch the original films INSTEAD of finishing the one I was watching. My full review is on my WordPress.
SPOILERS (not present in my full review):
But seriously, I blame everything on McG. Of the two prequel/sequel/reboots this summer (a genre that didn't exist last year), Star Trek wins by actually being an enjoyable movie. TS has just too many pacing, editing, and creative problems.
EDIT: I just figured out what it was like! A bad fan-edit! Bad transitions, obviously missing sequences... It's like McG fan-edited his own movie!
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I expected this to be crap once I heard McG was directing. From what I read on reviews this movie is all about action and explosions and light on character development. Typical summer movie which I could care less about, sadly there are more and more of this crap every year.
lordjedi said:This kind of makes sense with what we know of the changing timeline from the TV series.
But this movie completely ignores the TV show. There's two timelines to the "Terminator" series:
TIMELINE A (Official): The Terminator; Terminator 2: Judgment Day; Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines; Terminator: Salvation
TIMELINE B (Alternate): The Terminator; Terminator 2: Judgment Day; Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
And as far as in-universe timelines for the movies, there's the T1/T2 "closed-loop" timeline, where Judgment Day occurs in 1997. Then the events of T2 change the future, so that Judgment Day now occurs in 2003, so everything from T3 onward follows the changed (2003 Judgment Day) timeline instead of the original (1997 Judgment Day) timeline.
ChainsawAsh said:lordjedi said:This kind of makes sense with what we know of the changing timeline from the TV series.
But this movie completely ignores the TV show. There's two timelines to the "Terminator" series:
TIMELINE A (Official): The Terminator; Terminator 2: Judgment Day; Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines; Terminator: Salvation
TIMELINE B (Alternate): The Terminator; Terminator 2: Judgment Day; Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
And as far as in-universe timelines for the movies, there's the T1/T2 "closed-loop" timeline, where Judgment Day occurs in 1997. Then the events of T2 change the future, so that Judgment Day now occurs in 2003, so everything from T3 onward follows the changed (2003 Judgment Day) timeline instead of the original (1997 Judgment Day) timeline.
I think there are too many changes to the Salvation timeline for it to actually ride the T3 timeline. Kate being a surgeon instead of a vet, 10 years too early T-800s...
I'm not sure what I'll do if I ever update my Terminator Timeline again. Either create a new timeline due to the changes made in T3, or move T3 to a new timeline and guess that T4 is what would have happened if Skynet hadn't sent the T-X back.
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doubleofive said:ChainsawAsh said:lordjedi said:This kind of makes sense with what we know of the changing timeline from the TV series.
But this movie completely ignores the TV show. There's two timelines to the "Terminator" series:
TIMELINE A (Official): The Terminator; Terminator 2: Judgment Day; Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines; Terminator: Salvation
TIMELINE B (Alternate): The Terminator; Terminator 2: Judgment Day; Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
And as far as in-universe timelines for the movies, there's the T1/T2 "closed-loop" timeline, where Judgment Day occurs in 1997. Then the events of T2 change the future, so that Judgment Day now occurs in 2003, so everything from T3 onward follows the changed (2003 Judgment Day) timeline instead of the original (1997 Judgment Day) timeline.
I think there are too many changes to the Salvation timeline for it to actually ride the T3 timeline. Kate being a surgeon instead of a vet, 10 years too early T-800s...
I'm not sure what I'll do if I ever update my Terminator Timeline again. Either create a new timeline due to the changes made in T3, or move T3 to a new timeline and guess that T4 is what would have happened if Skynet hadn't sent the T-X back.
But wouldn't the T-800s have come earlier if they followed the TV series timeline? Since a head bounced through the time machine and they jumped over T3, wouldn't that make sense? From what we see of the Terminators, they apparently carry the knowledge of how to cover themselves with blood and skin. Doesn't that make it possible for everything to move to an earlier time in history? Once Judgment Day actually happens, they can take that programming that they've brought back in time and upload it into the new Skynet. Then you end up with T-800s sooner than they were suppose to happen.
This is why I hate time travel.
The show was awesome, but had a few too many Time Traveling Terminators. The Connors burned all they could, but it looks like there were plenty of scrap to build a whole new Skynet around. Remember in T2 when the chip and arm of the first T-800 were such a threat to humanity? Now they're outdated models and everyone has a piece of a T-888!
You'd think Skynet would have uploaded itself with T-800s and started producing infiltrators from day one. At least its only 14 years after JD and they're figuring this out. According to T1, they had just started making T-800s in 2029, THIRTY TWO YEARS after the 1997 JD!
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You could argue that the T-800s are being made early in 2018 instead of 2029, because Skynet had the data from the original T-800 arm and chip that were destroyed in T2, which allowed them to get a head start. Of course, if you take the mobius loop theory of T1 (that is, it always happened that way, and John always sent Reese back, and Reese was always John father, and Skynet excited because of the T-800 parts), then this doesn't work, but then neither does T2 or T3.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
Anybody who bases their opinions on what critics say have alot more problems than watching crappy movies.
People who spell "a lot" as a single word also have a lot more problems than watching crappy movies. ^_~
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Gaffer Tape said:People who spell "a lot" as a single word also have a lot more problems than watching crappy movies. ^_~
lmao
