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Post #360987

Author
skyjedi2005
Parent topic
Hypothetical: What would you KEEP?
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/360987/action/topic#360987
Date created
21-May-2009, 12:08 AM
Gaffer Tape said:
Johnboy3434 said:
Vaderisnothayden said:

No way. The films shouldn't have to kow tow to the EU. The EU is by very nature non-canonical, no matter what certain Lucasfilm employees think, and Lucas is thoroughly justified in ignoring it or going counter to it. The only question is whether he should be allowing his employees to officially call it canon if he's not going to treat it as that in his work. I think he shouldn't. I think it's a con to call the stuff canon when it's clearly not treated as canon. I think it's called canon just to to aid sales and wouldn't be called canon if not for that. The EU needs to be soundly put in its place. They should do the honest and appropriate thing and declare it all non-canon.

That's not your call to make. Whatever their reasons for saying it's canon, the point is that they say it, and so it is. The company that owns the right to a franchise can define its canon however it wants, so the EU is not "by very nature" non-canonical. If GL disagreed so vehemently with the presence of EU in Star Wars canon, he would fire the entire team of individuals whose sole job is to maintain a massive database on what constitutes canon, and who keep threads in the official message boards open for questions from readers. High-visibility jobs like that wouldn't last long if they were as unnecessary as you think.

I've noticed from your previous posts that you seem to think you have much more authority in these matters than you actually do. First, you insist that the OOT is the canon version simply because you think GL has lost sight of some nebulous concept of what SW "is" (which smacks of the same self-styled elitist definition as the phrase "true fan"), despite having no involvement in the production of the films of even an affiliation with the companies that made them. Now, you use the fact that Lucas Licensing is a business to off-handedly dismiss any official statements on the definition of canon. There's no logical follow-through to these statements at all. Simply put, you know less about what Star Wars "is" than Lucas and company ever will, because they DECIDE what it "is".

OOT purists, if you ever wondered why people have a tendency to look down on you, you need only look at people like Vaderisnothayden.

 

Nope.  Gotta agree with Vaderisnothayden on this one.  Nearly all of us here consider the OOT to be Star Wars canon over the '04 editions, myself included.  That's why most of us are here.

And while I've been a fan of EU and oftentimes consider some parts canonical, and it's obvious that Lucas the company considers it, it's even more obvious that Lucas the man does not.  He's made several statements saying he ignores EU works and has no idea what happens in them.  Even that wouldn't be so damning except for the fact that the prequels outright contradict elements of EU that the company considers to be canon.

Granted, we get our jollies off on holding opposing views from Lucas, but it's extremely funny that the company is pulled in two different directions.  I agree with Vaderisnothayden that the books are given such high status solely to boost sales.  I whole-heartedly believe that.  It's a little bit contradictory for Vaderisnothayden to follow Lucas's opinion on this when he doesn't in any other situation, but I certainly believe the fact that George shits on EU validates Vaderisnothayden's opinion.

Lucas after 1983 was very clear what was canon and what was not.  He said the movies were gospel and the EU gossip.   Then his whole being separate from EU now is a big joke because he borrowed EU stuff and added it to the special editions and prequels.

Adding things from shadows of the empire to star wars special edition.  Darth Maul's double bladed saber stolen from the comics that had Exar Kun.  Adding coruscant to the special editions and prequels.  Putting Boba Fett in star wars when he was not created til pre production on empire strikes back.

Boba Fett was first indtroduced as an EU character in the holiday special.  But since his band of warriors were created by Joe Johnston during pre production of empire strikes back as a kind of super soldier i'm not sure if he falls under the EU first and then became canon by being in empire strikes back.

There are many different branches of the canon.  The highest is the G canon.  Which is now only episodes 1-6 but once included the novelizations and radio dramas. 

The EU itself has a very elaborate canon structure.  The highest is a sub canon to the films themselves and projects Lucas has either produced or been Involved with.  Including Force Unleashed and the 3D clone wars cartoon.

The other novels and comics and video games follow below these.  And the way EU Canon is structured has changed over time.  For instance once the Marvel comics were thrown out EU canon entirely and now they have brought certain things back in.  Just like the newspaper comics by Russ Cochran were forgotten or dismissed canon and have been brought back into it.

Any of the old novels that contradict the prequels are either just left be, or if old story ideas and narrative threads are reused they have to fit the current prequel era of EU and cannot mess with what Lucas wants.

The prequels as we finally got them are just a mess of epic proportions.  Lucas might say they are canon.  but i disagree.  I think they are more EU than anything and certainly not the best the EU has to offer.  That includes the 1997 and 2004 versions of the films. 

To me the real true canon is.

Star Wars 1977

Empire Strikes Back 1980

Return of the Jedi 1983

And the novelizations from those same years.  Plus the radio dramas for star wars and empire strikes back.

Return of the jedi is not included because it does not feature Mark Hamill and added Mara Jade as Arica.