Lets talk about abortion. — Page 2

adywan said:

Janskeet said:

I really don't see what the big deal is.

 

try being a male (by this i mean one that actually cares that he has fathered a child)  who gets a female pregnant and has no say whatsoever if she wants to abort your child. Abortion has become as readily available over here as the contraception pill.

This actually happened to someone I know.  His girlfriend found out she was pregnant.  They had originally wanted to have a child and he was ready and willing to take care of it.  She went and got an abortion because she changed her mind and since they weren't married, she didn't have to consult him.  He broke up with her.

Is the rest of this thread for real?  I've never seen so much hate spewed forth from people that say they're moderates.  Abortion as a form of population control?  Government mandated limits on children?  We don't have to guess where that leads to, just look at China.  They have an out of control male population since they're only allowed one child, so they kill their daughters if they happen to have a girl.  It's completely barbaric.  Honestly, I have no problem putting limits on people that receive welfare, but if you want to have 14 kids and take care of them all yourself, go right ahead and do it.

lordjedi said:

Honestly, I have no problem putting limits on people that receive welfare, but if you want to have 14 kids and take care of them all yourself, go right ahead and do it.

How would you propose doing that? Some program where the government would offer to pay to have your bits and pieces' reproductive abilities disabled? I suppose it would be okay if it was offered and not obligatory. But I'd be very uncomfortable with the government telling women they must get their tubes tied to continue receive welfare.

C3PX said:

lordjedi said:

Honestly, I have no problem putting limits on people that receive welfare, but if you want to have 14 kids and take care of them all yourself, go right ahead and do it.

How would you propose doing that? Some program where the government would offer to pay to have your bits and pieces' reproductive abilities disabled? I suppose it would be okay if it was offered and not obligatory. But I'd be very uncomfortable with the government telling women they must get their tubes tied to continue receive welfare.

 

What I'd probably do is just cut off welfare instead of increasing payments the more children you have.  If you have more kids after you go on welfare, you wouldn't get more money (the current system pays a certain amount per child).  That way the woman can continue to have kids, but it doesn't drain the economy.  "Octomom" is a prime example of a broken system.

lordjedi said:

adywan said:

Janskeet said:

I really don't see what the big deal is.

 

try being a male (by this i mean one that actually cares that he has fathered a child)  who gets a female pregnant and has no say whatsoever if she wants to abort your child. Abortion has become as readily available over here as the contraception pill.

This actually happened to someone I know.  His girlfriend found out she was pregnant.  They had originally wanted to have a child and he was ready and willing to take care of it.  She went and got an abortion because she changed her mind and since they weren't married, she didn't have to consult him.  He broke up with her.

Is the rest of this thread for real?  I've never seen so much hate spewed forth from people that say they're moderates.  Abortion as a form of population control?  Government mandated limits on children?  We don't have to guess where that leads to, just look at China.  They have an out of control male population since they're only allowed one child, so they kill their daughters if they happen to have a girl.  It's completely barbaric.  Honestly, I have no problem putting limits on people that receive welfare, but if you want to have 14 kids and take care of them all yourself, go right ahead and do it.

 

I'm all for population control. There will be too many people on this planet if we continue like this. But I'm against abortion (except for ea few exceptions).

Arnie.d said:

I'm all for population control. There will be too many people on this planet if we continue like this. But I'm against abortion (except for ea few exceptions).

 

Really?  Here's what they said at the first Earth Day back in 1970:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Day

They didn't specifically mention population control, but it's not to difficult to connect the dots.  They essentially said, nearly 40 years ago, that there would be too many people on the planet by the year 2000.  None of the dire predictions have come true.

lordjedi said:

Arnie.d said:

I'm all for population control. There will be too many people on this planet if we continue like this. But I'm against abortion (except for ea few exceptions).

 

Really?  Here's what they said at the first Earth Day back in 1970:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Day

They didn't specifically mention population control, but it's not to difficult to connect the dots.  They essentially said, nearly 40 years ago, that there would be too many people on the planet by the year 2000.  None of the dire predictions have come true.

 

 I've never heard of this earth day stuff. Weird predictions also. But don't you agree there's a limit to the amount of people this planet can sustain? Especially if we want to preserve the environment. You don't want to turn earth into something like Coruscant?

I think the earth is able to take care of itself. Not saying we shouldn't lend a hand, but I think it is far more capable than all these nuts who believe they can actually make a difference in the grand scheme of things. 

Natural disasters, famine, plagues, they exist for a reason. We can try to fight them all we like with our modern technology, our medicens, and our predictions, but we can sway them no more than we can control the tides of the ocean.

Let's not delude ourselves into believing we have the ability to conquer and destroy something like the earth. The earth is sure to take us out long before we take it out. The over population "issue" will take care of itself without us needing to barbarically murder our own children or resorting to totalitarian style regulations.

Sooo, what's the minuet saying to us?

Arnie.d said:

 I've never heard of this earth day stuff. Weird predictions also. But don't you agree there's a limit to the amount of people this planet can sustain? Especially if we want to preserve the environment. You don't want to turn earth into something like Coruscant?

Actually, I wouldn't mind freeways running over each other and buildings being built vertically rather than horizontally.  Have you ever seen a parking lot that was a big sprawling lot vs a parking garage?  You can get far more cars into far less space by going upwards instead of allocating huge plots of land.  They might be a bit harder to build, but they save space for other things.  And since they usually put elevators into parking garages, you can park on the top and you don't really have to walk any further than if you're only a level or two up.  With a huge sprawling parking lot, it's a long walk to the store from the back.

C3PX said:

Let's not delude ourselves into believing we have the ability to conquer and destroy something like the earth. The earth is sure to take us out long before we take it out. The over population "issue" will take care of itself without us needing to barbarically murder our own children or resorting to totalitarian style regulations.

This.  I do not for one second think that humans have the ability to destroy the planet on our own.  We are far more likely to kill ourselves in the process and leave the planet perfectly capable of healing itself.  If it's true that the planet is billions of years old, then it did fine before us and it'll do fine after us.  IMO, thinking that humans are going to destroy the planet if we don't do something smacks of extreme arrogance.

Janskeet said:

Statistically, every second more than one person dies on this planet, and at the same time more people are born. Also every second there is at least one abortion performed somewhere on this planet. I will provide a source for that in a minuet.

lordjedi said:

Arnie.d said:

 I've never heard of this earth day stuff. Weird predictions also. But don't you agree there's a limit to the amount of people this planet can sustain? Especially if we want to preserve the environment. You don't want to turn earth into something like Coruscant?

Actually, I wouldn't mind freeways running over each other and buildings being built vertically rather than horizontally.  Have you ever seen a parking lot that was a big sprawling lot vs a parking garage?  You can get far more cars into far less space by going upwards instead of allocating huge plots of land.  They might be a bit harder to build, but they save space for other things.  And since they usually put elevators into parking garages, you can park on the top and you don't really have to walk any further than if you're only a level or two up.  With a huge sprawling parking lot, it's a long walk to the store from the back.

C3PX said:

Let's not delude ourselves into believing we have the ability to conquer and destroy something like the earth. The earth is sure to take us out long before we take it out. The over population "issue" will take care of itself without us needing to barbarically murder our own children or resorting to totalitarian style regulations.

This.  I do not for one second think that humans have the ability to destroy the planet on our own.  We are far more likely to kill ourselves in the process and leave the planet perfectly capable of healing itself.  If it's true that the planet is billions of years old, then it did fine before us and it'll do fine after us.  IMO, thinking that humans are going to destroy the planet if we don't do something smacks of extreme arrogance.

 

First, yes, I think building up is better than building wide. Especially in a small, crowded country like the Netherlands. I can't believe we are not building more scyscrapers.

 Second, yes, I agree again. But it kind of depends on what you mean by destroyed. Offcourse we can't destroy earth like the death star blew up alderaan (man, I feel like such a nerd using this example). And even if all humans are wiped out there will be some other life left and continue to evolve. What bothers me is that a lot of people expect some define intervention when things get really bad.

I guess we done talking about abortion?

And what the hell is a minuet?

A minuet is a slow, stately pattern dance in 3/4 time for groups of couples, originating in 17th-century France.

As for abortion, it's a touchy issue. I don 't believe, for example, that rape victims, or especially young ones, should be forced by law to carry the child to term. At the same time, the idea that most pro-choicers have that abortion is a 'right' scares the hell out of me. The idea that women have a 'right' to take the life of their unborn children is apalling. Abortion is at best a privilege, an evil that is unfortunately sometimes-necessary. At worst, it's a callous and selfish murder.

It is a lovely French word. We Americans like to use French words in our English sentences sometimes. We feel it makes us sound sophisticated.

Ironically, we also like to make jokes about the French being pansies.

Honestly, behind it all, Americans really, really love the French. So much, that they are embarrassed to admit it, and so they make fun of them to cover. Kind of like that girl you teased mercilessly in middle school, you really had a huge crush on her, and by teasing her you were able to interact with her and get her to notice you without letting your buddies or her know that you were hopelessly in love with her.

... oh yeah, a minuet, it is a style of ballroom dance, or the music associated with it.

EDIT: Chalts beat me too it. Serves me right for being so long winded all the time.

Arnie.d said:

What bothers me is that a lot of people expect some define intervention when things get really bad.

Call it divine intervention, call it mother nature.  Either way, the planet has a tendency to strike back with a vengeance when it comes under attack.  Mess with the atmosphere enough and you'll alter the weather patterns and you'll be in for a real shit storm the next time some massive system comes through.

Ow, I looked minuet up before I asked and found it was a dance. But since waffle talked about listening to the minuet I thought it had another meaning.

Arnie.d said:

Ow, I looked minuet up before I asked and found it was a dance. But since waffle talked about listening to the minuet I thought it had another meaning.

Actually, it did.  Look at what he quoted carefully.

lordjedi said:

Arnie.d said:

Ow, I looked minuet up before I asked and found it was a dance. But since waffle talked about listening to the minuet I thought it had another meaning.

Actually, it did.  Look at what he quoted carefully.

 

 OK, so if I understand the joke janskeet is going to entertain us by providing a source for his statements by dancing (because of his typo)?

Exactly.

ferris209 said:

C'mon Arnie, why so slow on the uptake?

I think because english isn't my first language and I didn't see janskeet's typo at first.

Yeah, having been in Arnie's position many times before in my life, I can say humor is one of the harder things to understand in another language.

Arnie.d said:

ferris209 said:

C'mon Arnie, why so slow on the uptake?

 

I think because english isn't my first language and I didn't see janskeet's typo at first.

I didn't get it at first either.  I actually went all the way back to Janskeet's post and then went "Oh, I get it now"