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Ideas Thread: for... The Dark Knight edits — Page 2

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When the kid says "Batman, Batman" that's a little too kid movie.

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People I can't believe you want to re-edit a perfect movie like TDK.

1. He shots bullets in the Bat-Bunker in an attempt to re-create the shattering pattern impact of the bullet, so that the scanner knows what to piece together, pattern recognition of that level is not that far off from The Dark Knight's resources, especially if you consider that tougher pattern recognition is already done these days by federal agencies. If you watch it thoroughly you'll see he doesn't assume the location of the apartment by the parade, Alfred cross-checks the fingerprints extracted from the bullet with the address convict database and finds the apartment. That part really shows how much further Batman can go into things compared to the police. Similar things? watch CSI Las Vegas for that.

Bruce is like one of the paparazzi-harassed celebrities of our time, he NEEDS an explanation, that's why he steals the ballet so that the people in Gotham think he went "honeymooning" with them. The girls don't care if Bruce jumps ship later.

The sonar thing is another example of SUPER-HIGH tech that Batman has (which btw scientist in the US have come close to achieving, check engadget for that).

Batman's voice is changed due to his voice changer, is it over the top in TDK? maybe, but how change that?

 

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"Now the Jedi are all but extinct" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"I hate old times" - Batman to John Stewart, A Better World
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In response to your post, Jedi Dark Knight:

1. It's IMPOSSIBLE to get a fingerprint from a shattered bullet like that.  Plain and simple.  I don't care how advanced your computer is, that is just plain stupid and ignorant.  And I hate that you reference CSI, because THAT program has ALWAYS done incredibly impossible "forensic" work with computers.

2. I just didn't like the sonar thing.  I felt it was weird, and how could he possibly do that to all cell phones in Gotham, and how could it work on the level the Joker is on?  Does the Joker have a cell phone?  Really?

I understand that Batman is supposed to have a lot of SUPER INCREDIBLE BADASS TECHNOLOGY, but that doesn't excuse when the technology is only used as a deus ex machina, and it's even worse when said technology is completely impossible.

And what voice changer?  He doesn't have a voice changer - how could he?  He makes his voice deeper and gravelly on purpose so people don't connect him with Bruce Wayne, which I'm fine with.  I've never had a problem with his voice in BB or TDK.

The ONLY things I'd ever want to change about TDK:

- Cut Scarecrow's "Not my diagnosis," and modulate his voice while the mask is on to match his behind-the-mask voice in BB
- Get rid of the fingerprint-bullet B.S., but you'd have to find a way to get him to the apartment outside the parade that is somehow less contrived than the fingerprint-bullet.
- Cut the sonar thing

That's it.  I love everything else about the movie.  And the problems I have with it are outweighed by the good in the movie, so I don't give a rat's ass whether anyone re-edits it or not.  But if someone did, and they only changed those three things, I'd download it and check it out.

Besides, I don't get trying to convince people not to edit it.  I hate the idea of editing "Blade Runner," the Final Cut is perfect, but a bunch of people have done it.  I just won't download them because I'm fine with the movie the way it is.

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1. impossible to get a fingerprint out of a shattered bullet...just plain stupid? mmmm well...just because you can't imagine how it could be done doesn't make it impossible. Cellular phones make "impossible" predictions on voice patterns like that every second of every minute of every hour of every day in every cell network in the world, impossible? I say maybe a stretch, but not impossible. CSI? you don't like it? well then do some research as to what can be done with computers these days, starting with fan edits.

2. You don't like it because it's weird? that's moot. The spreading of the software to all cellphones in gotham is a much more powerfull argument, Over The Air systems do exist, the download programs to cell phones, sometimes with the subscriber not even knowing it, again, a stretch? maybe. The Joker point you make would be a valid one were it not for the fact that the Joker has a cell phone, you see him using it during the burning of cash scene and to get commands to his henchmen. That Sonar technology is impossible and that annoys you? good thing we have Tumblers strolling around everywhere and they all come with their ejec-a-pod bike inside right? and that doesn't annoy you because it is soooooooo real.

3. He doesn't have a voice changer? and you KNOW that for fact because you wrote the script right?

 

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"Now the Jedi are all but extinct" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"I hate old times" - Batman to John Stewart, A Better World
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1. Um ... yes, it IS impossible.  Latent fingerprints are oil prints left by human secretions on the finger, which you can only get if you combine the oil with something else ("dusting for prints" being the most common, but a process similar to fumigation is also used).  What they do in the movie is scan a 3D computer image, probably with lasers, and combine the shards into the original shape of the bullet.  There would be no possible way for this or any similar technique to tell the difference between the human secretions making up the print itself and the physical body of the bullet.  Plus, the physical act of firing a bullet would burn off the oils in the chamber, and even if it didn't I find it incredibly hard to believe that the oils would be left after the bullet goes through a CONCRETE wall and fragments into hundreds of tiny shards.

2. Saying that "well, there are other things in the movie that are impossible, so this other impossible thing must be okay" is ridiculous.  So if I made a movie that involved faster-than-light travel in spacecraft that had artificial gravity with no centrifugal force, with humans travelling on that ship, with sound detectable in space, would it be okay if a human goes outside the ship and is able to function in space without a spacesuit?  It's impossible, but hey, so is faster-than-light travel, artificial gravity with no centrifugal force, and sound in space, so that makes functioning in a vacuum okay, right?

The examples you used don't annoy me because they're done in a way as to make it feel plausible.  And for the record, I thought the "eject-a-batpod" thing was retarded and impossible as well, but there's no way to do anything about that.  I thought the same thing about the "flying on rooftops" part of BB, too (actually, I disliked most of that chase sequence, now that I think about it).

3. Where do you suggest his voice changer is located?  His mouth is out in the open.  It works for Scarecrow because he can have it in front of his mouth under his mask.  But Batman's mouth isn't covered, so where's this magic voice changer?  Is it in his throat?

Besides, I said the voice didn't bother me, so why are you attacking my opinion on that?

I really don't understand why we're having this argument.  Are you trying to use these points to make a case against any fan edits of TDK?  If so, you're not doing a good job at all.  Here's why people make fan edits:

They don't like a part of a movie, so they change it.  That's it.  If you disagree, then fine, but saying other people's dislikes are invalid because you can justify them in your mind is kind of egotistical and just makes you look like a jerk.

And as for CSI - yes, that show is HIGHLY unrealistic.  All three of them are.  I can't count how many times they took a CCTV camera, that would NEVER have resolution higher than 720x480, and manage to "enhance" it so much that you can see a reflection in a person's eye when you can barely make out his face in the original image.  THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.  And it BUGS THE SHIT OUT OF ME.  There's no way to get any more resolution out of that image than was there to begin with.  You can "enhance" film a lot better than you can digital or analog video, but even that has its limits.

There are a lot of other things on that show that are entirely impossible, but I don't really feel like typing anymore.

My whole point was, if you don't think there should be a fan edit of TDK, great - don't make one and don't download any.  But I don't see why you need to attack people for not sharing that opinion.  I never attacked anyone who decided to edit "Blade Runner" or the first two LOTR movies (ROTK does, however, need a good hybrid of the theatrical and extended versions.  The EE's of the first two are perfect in my opinion).  I just won't download the edits.

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1. "probably with lasers" what if it is something else, in my opinion it does sound plausible, if it doesn't to you then...is a matter of opinion. How the fingerprint reacts to the environment I think neither of us is qualified enough to say it can or can't, as I said it sounds plausible, but again, is a matter of opinion.

2. Don't like the eject-a-pod? nor the chase? ok...again, keyword: "like" I can't say anything about likes since they are as personal as things get.

3. The Voice changer it has been implied in the related material in the DVD that it is inside the cowl, lame explanation? maybe. HE does the change, probably. (in the comics HE does it so...whatever)

Why we are having this argument? because I saw things that *could* happen dismissed as pointless and dumb and impossible, but you have nailed the point home for me: if people make fan edit to fix mistakes is one thing and those mistakes can be reasoned, argued and discussed, if they want to for the sake of their own whim/like/dislike then there's no point in arguing since as I said above likes are personal, but then why have a forum to discuss your own tastes if in the end when a different opinion arises someone is just going to shoot the argument with "I like it this way" and finish it, the point of a forum is discuss things openly, if the point is show what you did out of "taste" then all post should just be "I like it" and "I don't" and nothing comes out of it. Again you hit the point home for me: hammering things that are "tastes" with reason IS dumb (the word you used is jerk) I though we were hammering things that were considered mistakes, hence be reasoned with.

I sense your post ends with something along the lines of "don't like it, don't download it" which again goes with what I said above: "what's the point of showing your *tastes*, you show reasons to fix mistakes, since those can be argued, tastes are tastes.

 

And I'm not attacking you man, easy. We are talking.

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"Now the Jedi are all but extinct" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"I hate old times" - Batman to John Stewart, A Better World
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Ah, see, therein lies the core of why we disagree.  Note that I'm extrapolating from your post, if I'm wrong please tell me, but this is my understanding.

You (and many others) feel that fan edits, if made at all, should be made to fix mistakes and problems.

I (and many others) feel that fan edits should be made when someone dislikes something about a film, and they feel that they can improve upon it.

I'm sorry if you got the impression that I don't want to discuss things, but that's what I got from your post:

"People I can't believe you want to re-edit a perfect movie like TDK."

This statement implies that you are inherently against any change at all to said "perfect" movie, and I was just trying to get you to understand the reasoning behind said changes.  Admittedly, I may have been a bit carried away, but your arguments against my points seemed, to me, to be little more than "Well, your complaint is unfounded because I can explain it!"  I know there are explanations for these things, and I don't think they hold any water.  That's all.

The reason I was so stand-offish in my arguments was that it seemed to me like you were simply trying to convince people not to edit TDK at all, which I feel is pointless since A) it's already been done and B) it will be done again.

And with fan edits, EVERYTHING is about opinion and personal taste.  That's why there are so many different fan edits.  If you disagree with something in a fan edit that's being discussed here, bringing it up is good and brings about healty discussion.  But when someone is trying to argue against the very existence of an edit, as I felt you were, the entire discussion is pointless since that person's never going to convince the editor not to edit it and the editor will never be able to convince that person that editing this particular film isn't somehow sacriligeous.

I apologize for coming across as being rude.  That wasn't my intention.  I posted my last comment after getting into a heated argument with my jackass roommate, so some of that anger bled over into my post.  Sorry about that.

Whaddaya say we agree to disagree?  :-)

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You see my point now and I agree to most re-edits as long as they fix continuity problems, lousy effects and that kind of thing, which I consider to be improvements that the filmmakers just forgot to address, in that spirit, fan edits can be wonderful. Now you mention that some fan edits can spur from personal taste and the editors desire of changing something that didn't sit well with them, and that case as you elocuently say: "EVERYTHING is about opinion and personal taste". Now I believe that if you disagree with something that is objective (continuity problem) that can be fixed, but if you disagree with a personal taste of the Editor then tough...as I said above nothing can be done, you can reason to a degree, but in the end the taste of the editor is what is going to go down in the edit.

I was indeed against an editing of TDK as I think it is a perfect movie, but now that you mention it there are two ways to go at it: editing mistakes (which I think there are none) or changing out of taste (in that case I can't say a thing). I was as you put it on the "Well, your complaint is unfounded..." mindset because I was going with the "continuity problems" fixes, but I got the idea that you wanted to change plot...that I don't think can be done..or should be done (the only exception being SW since the PT should have obeyed what the OT said about those events *clone wars and the like* but that's a different discussion) because that's the movie in the end...But ok.

I'm sorry I was indeed all jumpy and aggressive too, but you are right, the editor has the right to do whatever he wishes to do....Reasoning tastes is a death-end street.  :)

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"Now the Jedi are all but extinct" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"I hate old times" - Batman to John Stewart, A Better World
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I think that's the first time I've been in an argument on a forum that ended in a civil manner.  One more reason why I love this forum and the people on it so much more than any other I've ever been a part of.  :-)

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Really? I always thought arguments in forums (or fora?) were supposed to be settled in a civil manner...yay! :) . You can tell now that I haven't been to many forums (fora?) hehe

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"Now the Jedi are all but extinct" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH

"I hate old times" - Batman to John Stewart, A Better World