Here is a site which looks like originaltrilogy.com, but it is not.
Red and black is a good color for this site
Here is the The anti-originaltrilogy.com aka thegungancouncil.
http://thegungancouncil.yuku.com/forums/5/t/Star-Wars-Cinema.html
The Gungan Council? I don't even need to click that link to be completely horrified. Of all the things to name a site...
(C3PX prepares himself to defend against a Gungan invasions, realizing they'sa have a grand army.)
I haven't clicked to read any of their stuff, but I certianly wouldn't call them the anti-ot.com. Their name suggests they are PT or "saga" fans, but as long as they are not complaining on a daily basis about how much they hate the OT and wish only ep.s 1, 2 and 3 had been made. And if they are constantly griping about the PT being released in too good of quality, and demanding that it gets released in 1993 LD quality, preferably nonanamorphic and with more changes, then I am sure they are simply just fans who are willing to look beyond the unbearable flaws of the PT and enjoy them for what they are (not that I couldn't do that, but the way I see it, why eat chunks of shit that looks like good brownies, when you could be eating good brownies that look like chunks of shit? Personally, I'll take the later over the former any day of the year).
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
I read one thread and it confirmed my beliefs. I clicked to the 'Would you buy the O-OT on DVD' Thread, and I think this site is the twin sister of TFN. I always thought TFN was an only child, but Yoda was right, "No, there is another!"
Their responses to the OOT on DVD ranged from, "I dont know if I'd buy it, those versions Lucas was not able to tell his story, and the SE are alot better."
Yeah, ESB fucking sucks because you never see Vader leave his shuttle on Cloud City! or ROTJ sucked because Lucas could never record 'Jedi Rocks!'
Why are there so many lunatic fans who like SW?
I'd call it more like a cousin to the mirror universe version of OT.com (wherever that is). And someone will come along and go "It's TheForce.net what else lol HAHA!", but no, you're wrong, go away.
"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."
- DarthZorgon (YouTube)
Why are there so many lunatic fans who like SW?
I don't think it's anything about the franchise itself that attracts lunatics necessarily, but the sheer size of the fanbase. A fanbase this big is bound to have its "belong in an asylum" division.
"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."
- DarthZorgon (YouTube)
DarkFather said:I don't think it's anything about the franchise itself that attracts lunatics necessarily, but the sheer size of the fanbase. A fanbase this big is bound to have its "belong in an asylum" division.
I understand what youre saying, but most movie series people are pretty mainstream on their views.
For instance, when was the last time you heard a person say, "The Godfather III is so much better the Godfather I!" Or Rocky V is better then Rocky I!" or 'Jaws The Revenge is SO much better then Jaws!" But you will hear on TFN thread titles like, "Is ANH...meh?" And you will also have that same fanbase over there who has utter contempt for the OOT versions, even though they were the ones that propelled SW to where it is today!
They are only copying and echoing the voice of their master George Lucas, who started the whole contempt for the original versions of the films.
Note these debates did not exist prior to the 1997 special edition trilogy and the release hype for that and the prequels.
Most of their views probably start with Lucas and the making of the special edition documentary, plus through the years lucas re-iterated that those were the final cut of the film. Then he did a second cut in 2004, what he considered just tweaking a few things.
Lucas considers the originals rough drafts he was forced to release, even though each was a finished work.
Though Lucas is not entirely alone when it comes to an artist revising and revisiting their works. Stephen King did it with the stand, and the dark tower series. But king did not try to wipe the old versions of the books out of existence. Neither did Spielberg, Ridley Scott, James Cameron no matter how many times they recut one of their films. All their movies are available in Anamorphic and good quality original versions.
Lucas is a singular entity when it comes to the original films being laserdisc dumps in the year 2006 in non anamorphic. How many other billionaire artists who have a rightfully beloved classic and try to make it unavailable or if made available grudingly in poor form. To try and make the revised version look better and to force people to watch the 2004 cut because it is restored and anamorphic and the 1993 is not.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
CO, you've been talking about that sort of thing for a long time. You're like a veteran thinking he's still in Nam. That sort of extremist movement is a predictable phase in any franchise, man. It's died down for the most part.
Did you ever follow the Batman franchise? There was a phase where Nolan was THE man (some even professing him as God, in ways I'm not sure were meant to be humorous), and Burton was THE failure who was never "faithful to the comics."
Ask DocLathropBrown.
Anyway, I agree it's disgusting when old fans betray the classics, but like I said, it's a predictable phase of any large franchise.
"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."
- DarthZorgon (YouTube)
The Dark Knight elavated Nolan even higher than Batman Begins. He is a golden boy in hollywood at the moment, and they would be crazy to make the third film without him.
It is true Burton was not very faithful to the comics his batman fits his bizarre Burtanverse far better. And Jack Niholson acted like Jack, and some kind of pastiche of the 60's cartoonish Joker.
The first Batman film in 1989 was the only film supervised and given approval by Bob Kane who allowed Burton to make changes in the story. Like the Joker killing batman's parents to give the character a motivation.
Burton had the darker noir ish batman first, but the phychology of the character was that he like a circus freak and so were the villains in those pictures. There was a bit of the surreal in Burtons version. His batman was like the bad james bond films all about the gadgets and not about the character.
Nolans version grounds the series in a heathy dose of reality and for the first time made Batman believable as a living breathing and deeply flawed human character.
Joel Shusuckers version should just be completely forgotten it is so awful.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Well you know just how bad a site is when the founder makes statements like this:
I don't understand the dislike of the change in the Greedo scene. I've never undestood it. If it hadn't been pointed out to you by other raving fans, 99% of the world would neither notice it nor care.
Lucas has been making changes since 1977. Technically the films, as they were seen in the theater, have never been released in any form. For example, the title of the first film was changed be the time it came to VHS, adding the Episode IV part.
does't he realise the EPIV title was added to the theatrical re-release when ESB came out?
but when they started saying they wouldn't buy the OOT if it came out on DVD because they're not Lucas' real vision of the movies i knew it was time for me to get out of there before i was mentally scarred for life. lol
the gungan council is just odd, I mean the look of it.
The site's set-up is like OT.com, but is like the dark side version of OT.com.
OT.com has a gray, white and gray-blue look.
TGC.com has Red and black look.
OT.com is for the OOT.
TGC.com seems to be anti-OOT.
OT.com is mainly anti-SE and anti-prequels.
TGC.com is mainly pro-SE and pro-prequels.
TF.N maybe the Head Vampire/ devil-like figure in Star Wars fandom, but....
TGC.com is like the son of the devil, aka the Anti-Christ figure in Star Wars fandom.
Their master, George Lucas is "the Evil that is so Evil that it is know just as the nameless horror" figure of this dark trinity.
Man, it another TF.n or SW.c like site and the horrible thing is there are more....
You
know
what
I
never
noticed
that
before
o
m
g
!
!
"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."
- DarthZorgon (YouTube)
DarkFather said:CO, you've been talking about that sort of thing for a long time. You're like a veteran thinking he's still in Nam. That sort of extremist movement is a predictable phase in any franchise, man. It's died down for the most part.
Did you ever follow the Batman franchise? There was a phase where Nolan was THE man (some even professing him as God, in ways I'm not sure were meant to be humorous), and Burton was THE failure who was never "faithful to the comics."
Ask DocLathropBrown.
Anyway, I agree it's disgusting when old fans betray the classics, but like I said, it's a predictable phase of any large franchise.
Here is the difference between Batman & Star Wars, Star Wars movies were all created by George Lucas, Batman had 2 movies by Burton, 2 movies by Schumacher, and 2 movies by Nolan, so it would be obvious that certain fans like a certain style by each.
You have to compare the series like Godfather and Lethal Weapon, where the same person did all their movies, (Coppola and Donnor).
I just know that when I was in highschool we ALL thought the same about the Star Wars Trilogy: Star Wars & Empire were the best, and Jedi was 3rd. And I didn't have one friend saying Jedi was the best, the only debate was that Empire may be better the Star Wars, or vice versa.
You go on TFN, and you have people ranking TPM or AOTC over Star Wars??? Just goto the Saga thread and see peoples rankings, you have to shake your head at these people.
It really goes to show how the audience has changed over 20 years, and how movie-goers today are so smitten with action and CGI, because that is clearly why they put ANH so low on their list.
You have to compare the series like Godfather and Lethal Weapon, where the same person did all their movies, (Coppola and Donnor).You're trying to set a meaningless standard for the analogy. Point is, CO, if a franchise had a film series that stopped, and then another film series or continuation comes years later, it will cause divisions in the fanbase. If the new is "good", then the old must be "bad" to many. It's like a fashion craze
"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."
- DarthZorgon (YouTube)
DarkFather said:
You're trying to set a meaningless standard for the analogy. Point is, CO, if a franchise had a film series that stopped, and then another film series or continuation comes years later, it will cause divisions in the fanbase. If the new is "good", then the old must be "bad" to many. It's like a fashion craze
DF, that is exactly the Godfather Trilogy. GFI & GFII were made in 72 and 74, and then GFIII was made 16 years later in 1990, the same exact time between ROTJ and TPM.
I have yet to come across anyone who says that GFI is slow and boring and GFIII is a great movie, and wipes up the rest. And trust me I came from the GFIII generation and the first two movies were made when I was 'very young' as Princess Leia said in ROTJ:) The bottom line is you ask my generation of GF fans and you ask the generation before us and they will always debate which is better GFI or GFII? But you never hear GFIII in that debate. Yet, on TFN, you have people ranking TPM over ANH!
You mean that there is another place where geeks, nerds and dorks gather and discuss the Star Wars movies and everything else related to them? Don't tell anyone at TF.n! If you are not with them, you are against them!
Also, best not to mention:
http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=257
http://barkera0.proboards.com/index.cgi
http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/index.php
http://www.swtor.com/community/
http://www.jedi-masters.co.uk/jediboard/phpBB2/index.php
http://www.starwars.sg/forum/index.php
http://starwars.yahoo.com/forums
http://www.galacticbasic.net/forum/index.php
http://pub3.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=194565962&frmid=1553&msgid=0
I'm going to the gym. Hasta!
CO said:DarkFather said:
You're trying to set a meaningless standard for the analogy. Point is, CO, if a franchise had a film series that stopped, and then another film series or continuation comes years later, it will cause divisions in the fanbase. If the new is "good", then the old must be "bad" to many. It's like a fashion craze
DF, that is exactly the Godfather Trilogy. GFI & GFII were made in 72 and 74, and then GFIII was made 16 years later in 1990, the same exact time between ROTJ and TPM.
I have yet to come across anyone who says that GFI is slow and boring and GFIII is a great movie, and wipes up the rest. And trust me I came from the GFIII generation and the first two movies were made when I was 'very young' as Princess Leia said in ROTJ:) The bottom line is you ask my generation of GF fans and you ask the generation before us and they will always debate which is better GFI or GFII? But you never hear GFIII in that debate. Yet, on TFN, you have people ranking TPM over ANH!
The biggest difference here, is that SW, especially the prequels, are targeted at young, immature audiences. While The Godfather is targeted at adults. Most adults are in the state of mind where that loyalist fanboy attitude doesn't mean a whole lot (beyond motor companies and sports teams of course!). Most people mature enough to like The Godfather films would say, "Ah, part three sucked. Oh well. One and two are still good." And the ones who liked the third one would says, "Wow, the Godfather trilogy is really fantastic."
But with Star Wars you have the lame-o fanboy factor. This is the type of mentallity that brings us beloved classic arguments like, "Kirk could kick Picards ass any day of the week!" and "Naaa uuuhh!!!! Picard would outsmart Kirk before Kirk even had a chance!!!" It is all BS. Fans bickering for the sake of bickering! It is immaturity defined. "Sonic could kick Marios butt!!" "ANH is superduper meh! AOTC is AWETHOM!!! You get to see Padme's midriff in it!!! And Yoda does flips!!! And Anakin is totally badass, he kills women and children because they are like animals!!!" "ROTS is so much better than any of the OT!!! We get to see Yoda do more flips!!! Anakin is badass, he kills chiildren and a woman!!! Finally we get to see Palptine totally pwn Jedi with his lightsaber!!! General Grevious rules!!! He gives me nightmares, lol!!!
BLAH!
This is who LFL panders too unfortunately, the scales have tipped to the degree where the above is the majority, and those who just want to see a piece of cinema history as it was originally seen are left out in the cold.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
I hear ya, C3PX. I think this is why I pretty much have abandoned the EU or really anything SW that isn't the actual movies. And the closer I can keep it to '77, the better. It was so much more fun with a couple of cool novels, some action figures and my scholastic book club story books.
Snivvians, Ithorians and Quarren? Who cares. Give me Snaggletooth, Hammerhead and Squidhead any day.
One by one, we will die off, just like each frame of the OOT is slowly decaying in the LFL archives.
BTW, did you know that are over 200,000 CGI shots in ROTS? Well, assuming a rate of 24 frames per second...
generalfrevious said:One by one, we will die off, just like each frame of the OOT is slowly decaying in the LFL archives.
Man, that's so true, but so depressing. :(
*clutches old AT-AT action figure and rocks and back forth in the corner, crying silently*
My only glimmer of hope is that I just can't fathom that 40 years now, people will even remember the prequels. It's the original trilogy that was so historic - I just hope that eventually people will discard the prequels and appreciate the OT. However, who knows what will happen.
CO said:I read one thread and it confirmed my beliefs. I clicked to the 'Would you buy the O-OT on DVD' Thread, and I think this site is the twin sister of TFN. I always thought TFN was an only child, but Yoda was right, "No, there is another!"
Their responses to the OOT on DVD ranged from, "I dont know if I'd buy it, those versions Lucas was not able to tell his story, and the SE are alot better."
Yeah, ESB fucking sucks because you never see Vader leave his shuttle on Cloud City! or ROTJ sucked because Lucas could never record 'Jedi Rocks!'Why are there so many lunatic fans who like SW?
God, that sort of stuff makes me choke. What shit. Yes, ESB sucks because Boba wasn't voiced by Jango Fett doing a bland job. ROTJ sucks because they had that old geezer appearing as a ghost in the end instead of beautiful Haydenkins. ANH sucks because that horrible Han person shot poor Greedo without provocation. It just wasn't George's Holy Vision.
generalfrevious said:One by one, we will die off, just like each frame of the OOT is slowly decaying in the LFL archives.
BTW, did you know that are over 200,000 CGI shots in ROTS? Well, assuming a rate of 24 frames per second...
The prequel fans will die off too some day. And maybe the generations that come after will recognize that it's the OT that has value. They might even be interested in the original versions of these classic films.
Sluggo said:Snivvians, Ithorians and Quarren? Who cares. Give me Snaggletooth, Hammerhead and Squidhead any day.
Hear hear.
Lucas has been making changes since 1977. Technically the films, as they were seen in the theater, have never been released in any form. For example, the title of the first film was changed be the time it came to VHS, adding the Episode IV part.
A title change isn't a change to the main part of the film. It's not in the story. As for other changes, most of it was stuff that dates back to the original different versions made in the first few months, not changes made years later. BIG difference from coming along many years later and making a whole lot of changes that don't fit with the original films.
C3PX said:The biggest difference here, is that SW, especially the prequels, are targeted at young, immature audiences. While The Godfather is targeted at adults. Most adults are in the state of mind where that loyalist fanboy attitude doesn't mean a whole lot (beyond motor companies and sports teams of course!). Most people mature enough to like The Godfather films would say, "Ah, part three sucked. Oh well. One and two are still good." And the ones who liked the third one would says, "Wow, the Godfather trilogy is really fantastic."
But with Star Wars you have the lame-o fanboy factor. This is the type of mentallity that brings us beloved classic arguments like, "Kirk could kick Picards ass any day of the week!" and "Naaa uuuhh!!!! Picard would outsmart Kirk before Kirk even had a chance!!!" It is all BS. Fans bickering for the sake of bickering! It is immaturity defined. "Sonic could kick Marios butt!!" "ANH is superduper meh! AOTC is AWETHOM!!! You get to see Padme's midriff in it!!! And Yoda does flips!!! And Anakin is totally badass, he kills women and children because they are like animals!!!" "ROTS is so much better than any of the OT!!! We get to see Yoda do more flips!!! Anakin is badass, he kills chiildren and a woman!!! Finally we get to see Palptine totally pwn Jedi with his lightsaber!!! General Grevious rules!!! He gives me nightmares, lol!!!
BLAH!
This is who LFL panders too unfortunately, the scales have tipped to the degree where the above is the majority, and those who just want to see a piece of cinema history as it was originally seen are left out in the cold.
Good points!