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How could Vader not see Luke there???!!! — Page 2

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Another thing about that scene that always bugged with was this:

 

Vader throws his lightsaber at Luke and he easily could've used the force to catch it, why the hell didn't he? It was another moment where Lucas can't think of anything good so he simply does it because the plot says so.

 

 

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Janskeet said:

Another thing about that scene that always bugged with was this:

Vader throws his lightsaber at Luke and he easily could've used the force to catch it, why the hell didn't he? It was another moment where Lucas can't think of anything good so he simply does it because the plot says so. 

 

Maybe when one Jedi throws a lightsaber guided by the force, it's hard to catch.

Obviously Luke could not easily have caught it. Or else he would have.

It's silly to make up a rule (ex: "Luke should have caught the lightsaber with the Force") for an almost completely undefinded fictional magic system, and then point to the single piece of evidence that the rule was based on (the one instance of lightsaber tossing in ROTJ) which could have just as easily (and perhaps more reasonably) been interpreted the exact opposite way.

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TheBoost said:
Janskeet said:

Another thing about that scene that always bugged with was this:

Vader throws his lightsaber at Luke and he easily could've used the force to catch it, why the hell didn't he? It was another moment where Lucas can't think of anything good so he simply does it because the plot says so. 

 

Maybe when one Jedi throws a lightsaber guided by the force, it's hard to catch.

Obviously Luke could not easily have caught it. Or else he would have.

It's silly to make up a rule (ex: "Luke should have caught the lightsaber with the Force") for an almost completely undefinded fictional magic system, and then point to the single piece of evidence that the rule was based on (the one instance of lightsaber tossing in ROTJ) which could have just as easily (and perhaps more reasonably) been interpreted the exact opposite way.

In ROTJ we see Luke catch the lightsaber right after avoiding the the fall into the sarlac pit. All R2D2 did was shoot the lightsaber up in the air and Luke was able to grab it from there. Vader's saber comes like a foot within retreival.

 

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Janskeet said:

In ROTJ we see Luke catch the lightsaber right after avoiding the the fall into the sarlac pit. All R2D2 did was shoot the lightsaber up in the air and Luke was able to grab it from there. Vader's saber comes like a foot within retreival.

 

 

R2 is a robot who shot it right at Luke for the purpose of catching it. Vader is a powerful Sith Lord who threw a lit lightsaber at Luke with the express purpose of Luke NOT catching it (unless being sliced counts as catching).

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Mielr said:

I always thought Guy Pearce would have been a great Spidey.

Maybe 40 years ago! :)

 

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TheBoost said:
Janskeet said:

In ROTJ we see Luke catch the lightsaber right after avoiding the the fall into the sarlac pit. All R2D2 did was shoot the lightsaber up in the air and Luke was able to grab it from there. Vader's saber comes like a foot within retreival.

 

 

R2 is a robot who shot it right at Luke for the purpose of catching it. Vader is a powerful Sith Lord who threw a lit lightsaber at Luke with the express purpose of Luke NOT catching it (unless being sliced counts as catching).

Why didn't Vader just use the force to break the balcony/suspended platform. If he can use the force to choke someone, why not use it to break a metal beam apart. Why risk losing his saber?

 

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Janskeet said:

Why didn't Vader just use the force to break the balcony/suspended platform. If he can use the force to choke someone, why not use it to break a metal beam apart. Why risk losing his saber?

 

 I don't know. Why didn't he choke Luke? Why didn't he forcelightning Luke? Or why not just Force Push the Emperor into the bottomless pit instead of grabbing him?

Was Vader (correctly) confident that his sabre-throwing skills were superior to Luke's "Catching Flying Ignited Lightsabers" skill?

Maybe the metal was too strong given that Vader appears to be significantly less powerful with certain force powers than he had been before being mutilated?

Maybe he figured that since Luke could do a 20 foot backflip onto the platform, he was nimble enough that the platform falling wouldn't be a big deal.

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C3PX said:

I always thought Luke was using the force to block Vader out. Notice Luke is concentrating really hard. Vader finally picks up on his thoughts about his sister, I always assumed that was because Luke wasn't strong enough in the force and Vader was able to see through his fog just enough to pick up that little tidbit, likely because Luke was worried about Leia at the moment and thinking too much about her and what it would be like for her if he failed.

Yeah, this is how I've always intrepreted it as well. (I wasn't aware of any of the EU "explanations"). Obviously, Luke is panicking and he happens to think of Leia, and he's mortified once Vader picks up on it.

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TheBoost said:
Mielr said:

I always thought Guy Pearce would have been a great Spidey.

Maybe 40 years ago! :)

 

He's only 41 - Tobey Maguire is almost 34. It's not THAT big of an age difference. ;-)

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I thought Vader cannot use force lighting because he is more machine than man?

I mean look at what Palatines electricity does to vader.  Vader has no human arms either. He probably could have used force lightning as the vader with no suit In Episode III.

The real reason is because it was not in the script.

People look for logic in a series of childrens films that are pure fantasy and not real.  I guess a lot of this is the EU fault because people think everything must be explained.  Even George fell victim to having to explain everything uncessary in the prequels while not explaining other things.

Star Wars is Space Fantasy/ sword and sorcery.  Not Science Fiction.  Star Wars universe has its own logic but it happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.  This is Once Upon A time in a kingdom far away.

Other than the basic human story that relates nothing can be related to earth time or earth men, it is not set in the same temporal universe we live in.  Denies the laws of physics and has sound in space.

If it is science fiction at all it is science fiction lite a subdivision where things like space opera and sword and planet stories get moved to, but they are closely related to fantasy which has magic and no science.  The events and objects and all they use at far too fantastical and forget the science in science fiction.

Someone like David Brin would say there is a difference between sci fi and SF.  SF uses real hard science and physics inside a story. The other sci fi relates to pure fantasy with science fiction trappings in  which it is there to only service the plot.  Usually in television or hollywood films where real science bores audiences and gets thrown out the window.

Just because star wars has spaceships and technology does not make it science fiction.  Lucas claims he never intended it to be.  Only Fox wanted to market it that way since they refused to market it as lucas wanted it called space fantasy, when they absolutely refused the name space opera.

To me i don't care either way its fantastic fiction and escapism just like Tolkiens lord of the rings.

To me genre restrictions are boring and more about classifying books and where to put them on shelves and to sell books than anything else.

Science bores me to death anyways if there is no good story.  Hard Science Fiction almost always sucks with some exceptions like Asimov.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I never thought about why Vader couldn't use force lightning.  We never see it until the end of ROTJ anyway.  The Emperor can do it because he's the Emperor!  And that's all there ever was to it to me!

But then Dooku did it.  Stupid bastard! 

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I learned something new while playing around with ROTJ:

 

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skyjedi2005 said:

People look for logic in a series of childrens films that are pure fantasy and not real.  I guess a lot of this is the EU fault because people think everything must be explained.  Even George fell victim to having to explain everything uncessary in the prequels while not explaining other things.


 I think, given the extremely limited understanding the films (all six even) give about the nature of what the force can do, I don't see any particular holes in logic when it comes to using the Force.

To find 'mistakes' required us to make up 'rules' other than what the films present. The films quantify and are specific about very little, and I think that's a strength.

I can't and won't speak for the EU except to note  that all six movies have maybe 10 minutes of people talking about the force total, while the EU seems to be about 50% rambling about the nature of the Force. Some of the NJO books seem to be more like 70%.

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Gaffer Tape said:

I never thought about why Vader couldn't use force lightning.  We never see it until the end of ROTJ anyway.  The Emperor can do it because he's the Emperor!  And that's all there ever was to it to me!

 

 That's what I always thought to. Stupid Dooku.

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I posted this in the ROTJ Wishlist forum too:

At the end of the fight, Vader just falls down and grabs on to the railing for no apparent reason. Perhaps Adywan could CGI in Luke's leg kicking him down or something?

I really hope Adywan does something about this. I know it is something that crosses everyone's mind when they watch this.

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 (Edited)

He grabs onto the railing to prevent himself from falling.  What more do you need explained?

He is noticeably weak here and holding off Luke with his other hand with the saber in it.   He looks like he is trying to rise to his feet but is too weak to do so under the fury of lukes angry attack.

Any way Luke is using the darkside here to over power vader.  

If it was luke versus Anakin in Episode III luke would still win.  I have no idea how vader won in empire strikes back if you think the anakin of the prequels is in the suit.

I mean starting with Jedi Vader became a pussy.  He also gets owned by Dooku in Episode II when he was anakin and when he is vader in episode III by kenobi. He cuts obi wan down in episode IV only because ben lets him to create a distraction so our heroes can escape.  He even gets owned in the force unleashed by Starkiller.

Nice pink bubblegum screen caps there by the way,lol.  His saber is red in the gout. The 2004 deserves to be thrown in the trash bin.  Pink Lightsaber.  Hayden in the ghost scene.  Jar Jar, and Jedi Rocks.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

He is noticeably weak here and holding off Luke with his other hand with the saber in it.   He looks like he is trying to rise to his feet but is too weak to do so under the fury of lukes angry attack.

 

 Luke BEATS HIM DOWN. I've never had an issue with that moment at all.

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Janskeet said:

I learned something new while playing around with ROTJ:

 

 

 That's no stunt double...that's Luke's Clone!!!

One of the stupidest, stupidiest, stupidiestestest things about Zahn's Thrawn trilogy was that the cloned Jedi had an extra letter in their name: Luuke Skywalker and Joruus C'Baoth. What if they had a sixth-generation Luke clone? Would it then be named Luuuuuuuke? Stupid as hell.

As for the Force thing, an old friend once wondered why Palpatine couldn't just levitate his way out of the DS shaft. Do with that what you will.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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A wizard kept him from levatating.

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 (Edited)

Yep. If there's anything in Star Wars that can't be explained by The Force, it can be explained by "a wizard did it." ConfusedMatthew discovered this illuminating truth after years of intense Jedi meditation.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Der because the script says so.

Its a frickin movie for gods sake not a documentary.  My god you guys are such nitpickers i would hate to go to the movies and be sitting in the same theater.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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If it was luke versus Anakin in Episode III luke would still win.  I have no idea how vader won in empire strikes back if you think the anakin of the prequels is in the suit.

I mean starting with Jedi Vader became a pussy.  He also gets owned by Dooku in Episode II when he was anakin and when he is vader in episode III by kenobi. He cuts obi wan down in episode IV only because ben lets him to create a distraction so our heroes can escape.  He even gets owned in the force unleashed by Starkiller.

You're forgetting about the Jedi he was shown slaying in lightsaber combat during Order 66 in ROTS.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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 (Edited)

Well considering i have only sat through watching that pile of shit twice on the big screen, and none times on dvd maybe i did not remember it or it was not important to the films plot.

I do remember the painfully stupid lightsaber duels between Hayden Vader and Kenobi and the Emperor and Yoda, the yoda flipping around like he was flugged into an eletric outlet.  Just as bad as Episode II.  and the emporor throwing those pod like senator thingies at him.

You guys think the jedi flipping around in the prequels are ridiculous you should see the superpowers starkiller has in the force unleashed.  Its almost as Troy Denning writing Luke Skywalker.  Of whom one reviewer compared like Luke cutting stardestroyers in half with his lightsaber.

Well he has crash landed a star destroyer twice and survived,lol.  He brought down a imperial Walker with the force.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Nice pink bubblegum screen caps there by the way,lol.  His saber is red in the gout. The 2004 deserves to be thrown in the trash bin.  Pink Lightsaber.  Hayden in the ghost scene.  Jar Jar, and Jedi Rocks.

Geez, sky, you really have it in for the color pink, don't you?  I mean, yeah, obviously it's a mistake, and it's supposed to be red, but this is at least the second thread in the past few days where you've just steamrolled over pink lightsabers, pink gum, and the very concept of pink!

Did the color pink kill your father or something? ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.