Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 65

ben_danger said:

i was thinking last night, about the ideas for the fett scenes. would it work better if,

 

• fett jumps out of hyperspace, meeting a gathering febel fleet (maybe a HUGE fleet seen orbiting a planet like some form of ring, more and more ships jumping out of hyperspace and joining the loop)
• he flies towards a main ship, or station
• delivering the plans to someone, maybe a general, or maybe just an underling
• departing fett flies off, and then he gets a transmission from a cloaked figure (vader, or perhaps a cowled sidious) so the treachery is revealed afterwards

 

the question would be who is betraying who, is vader betraying the empire? is fett betraying the rebels, or mabe the cowled emperor is working both sides again like in the PT, fett would have no idea that the cowled sidious is the emperor, but we may remember him from TPM.

 It's all part of the Emperor's plan. Like the actual movie. This new Fett sub plot does not change a thing. Exept for the mention of the Bothan spies.

The Bothan that were killed died for nothing else than to make the rebels believe that is was hard to get the plan.

EDIT: so I agree with Darth Piccolo. No Vader calls to Fett would be even smarter. It would make the audience think that the rebels have a chance. Until Palaptine says that it is in fact a trap, at the end of the movie. At that moment only the audience understand that Fett was working for the Empire.

Darth Piccolo said:

I'd rather have the boba/plans plot remain anominous so the audience caould figure it out for themselves rather than sponfed like lucas's prequels.  that's why my idea of showing boba leaving jabba's palace and later his ship is seen leaving one of the rebel ships would work better.

It might work either way.

The tell through showing approach would be labour intensive so perhaps your approach could be phase one and other people could build upon it if they feel the final effect is too ambiguous.

TMBTM said :

EDIT: so I agree with Darth Piccolo. No Vader calls to Fett would be even smarter. It would make the audience think that the rebels have a chance. Until Palaptine says that it is in fact a trap, at the end of the movie. At that moment only the audience understand that Fett was working for the Empire.

I'm never convinced that the trap is much of a surprise anyway (especially after ESB), surely the surprise is that they still manage to win regardless.

Like Hitchcock said you have to show the audience the bomb to draw tension from it.

Bingowings said:

Like Hitchcock said you have to show the audience the bomb to draw tension from it.

I usualy agree with this. But not so much in this case. But as you said, it could also work either way.

I'd like to see a lot of this sort of thing on Endor :

I'd rather have the boba/plans plot remain anominous so the audience could figure it out for themselves rather than sponfed like lucas's prequels.

I agree with this. You could still have the Fett/Vader conversation, but make it sound like Fett gave the plans to the Bothans, a third party.

Thats' really sinister to have him basically covering his tracks like that.

Maybe have Vader ask him: "Have the plans been delivered to the Bothans?"

Then when Mothma is talking about it the audeince would go "Oh no, a setup!"

Could be the tension we'd need.

I don't like this idea of having Vader leak the plans to Boba Fett -> the Rebels.

a) Boba Fett shouldn't be in ROTJ

b) and why would you spoil the "it's a trap" plotline so soon?!

That would totally ruin Palpatine's lines because we'd already know he set it all up...

b) and why would you spoil the "it's a trap" plotline so soon?!

We already know it's a trap before the rebels get their anyway though. Palps tells Luke about the legion of troops before the rebel fleet arrives.

I actually would prefer that nothing is stated before the audience sees it happen, but anyway this is to help this Fett doesn't die idea along.

shanerjedi said:

I'd rather have the boba/plans plot remain anominous so the audience could figure it out for themselves rather than sponfed like lucas's prequels.

I agree with this. You could still have the Fett/Vader conversation, but make it sound like Fett gave the plans to the Bothans, a third party.

Thats' really sinister to have him basically covering his tracks like that.

Maybe have Vader ask him: "Have the plans been delivered to the Bothans?"

Then when Mothma is talking about it the audeince would go "Oh no, a setup!"

Could be the tension we'd need.

 

The problem with Fett giving it to the Bothan's is nobody knows who the Bothans are you'd have to be an EU fan to know what they look like and even then the number of people who have Bothan outfits is practically zero.

DarthBo said:

I don't like this idea of having Vader leak the plans to Boba Fett -> the Rebels.

a) Boba Fett shouldn't be in ROTJ

b) and why would you spoil the "it's a trap" plotline so soon?!

That would totally ruin Palpatine's lines because we'd already know he set it all up...

The only reason Fett doesn't work in ROTJ is he isn't doing what he was designed to do. Having Fett just cooling his heels in Jabba's palace, waiting to be killed off a couple of scenes later is a bit like having a man in a space suit walking into a coffee shop. It doesn't make sense. Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, he finds people or information and he sells it to anyone with the cash.

This storyline gives him a legitmate reason for being in this film (beyond just dying and tying up all the loose ends).

It doesn't spoil the trap plot line it creates tension from it.

We know it's a trap all along and out heroes are about to step right into it and from our side of the screen there is nothing we can do to stop them.

The trap storyline is never going to be a surprise in any viewing of this film, the Empire are always laying traps for the Rebels but now we know there is a trap and the tension comes from how the hell will the Rebels get out of it.

We don't even know the full nature of the trap so it could come from anywhere at anytime.

We have information the characters on screen do not have.

Like Hitchcock said :

There is an explosion. The public is surprised, but prior to this surprise, it has seen an absolutely ordinary scene, of no special consequence. Now, let us take a suspense situation. The bomb is underneath the table and the public knows it, probably because they have seen the anarchist place it there. The public is aware the bomb is going to explode at one o'clock and there is a clock in the decor. The public can see that it is a quarter to one. In these conditions, the same innocuous conversation becomes fascinating because the public is participating in the scene. The audience is longing to warn the characters on the screen: "You shouldn't be talking about such trivial matters. There is a bomb beneath you and it is about to explode!"

In the first case we have given the public fifteen seconds of surprise at the moment of the explosion. In the second we have provided them with fifteen minutes of suspense. The conclusion is that whenever possible the public must be informed. Except when the surprise is a twist, that is, when the unexpected ending is, in itself, the highlight of the story.

Bingowings said:

The only reason Fett doesn't work in ROTJ is he isn't doing what he was designed to do. Having Fett just cooling his heels in Jabba's palace, waiting to be killed off a couple of scenes later is a bit like having a man in a space suit walking into a coffee shop. It doesn't make sense. Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, he finds people or information and he sells it to anyone with the cash.

This storyline gives him a legitmate reason for being in this film (beyond just dying and tying up all the loose ends). 

 I think I saw the man in a spacesuit walk into a coffee shop on Letterman.

I totally agree that Fett doesn't work in ROTJ.  He had a large enough role in the previous movie to warrant his hanging out in Jabba's palace. 

I don't like the plan of him selling the Death Star Plans to the rebels. 

1. I think the information about how the rebels got the plans is irrelevant to the fact that they just have the plans.  To me the film reveals just enough about where the plans came from.  The bothans (what ever that is) delivered them through their spies.  Then Palpatine revealed it was all a ruse to defeat the rebels.  And the purpose of that plotline was to justify the extra troops on Endor and to make it tougher for the rebels.

2. I think the idea to have Fett sell the plans to the rebels is looking to solve the problem the wrong way.  The problem isn't how the rebels got the plans, but what the heck is Boba doing in this movie?  To me, having Fett sell the plans isn't what he was designed to do. 

It seems to me that a solution needs to deal with Fett at the Palace.  Having Fett at the palace still is useless if his purpose in the rest of the movie is to set up the rebellion.  Fett could be chilling on Hoth before he set out to betray the rebellion. 

Fett wouldn't be at the palace for the party either.  Maybe in someone's imagination, he likes being a ladies man and hanging out with dancing girls, but that's not real purpose either.  Fett needs to be on a mission.  He has to be after a bounty.

Skywalker.

Collecting Skywalker was his his original mission for going after the Falcon.  Being able to bring Solo to Jabba was just a bonus.  With Vader stuck on the Death Star, overseeing its construction, it seems logical that he would want to keep the bounty active.

All that would need to be added to the film is a bit of dialogue between Fett and maybe Jabba about knowing Skywalker will come to rescue Solo and Fett will capture him.  Sort of an echo of the conversation on Bespin with Fett and Vader.  The trap to get Luke almost worked the first time.  The way the films play with type-scenes and motifs, this plan would fit the film fine.

Later, when everyone else is out at the pit of carkoon, Fett heads topside to collect his prize.  He notices R2 has an escape plan going so he waits for the right moment.  When it comes, he swoops in, ties Luke up, stuns Luke with a stun-ray and flies him away.  Unless of course some smuggler messes up the last minute.

I think it works.

And really, I don't care at this point if Fett lives or dies.  He had a point to be in the movie and however it wraps up, he can fly away to hunt another day or slowly get digested for a thousand years.

Just my 2 cents.

Well sluggo, I think some of the Fett sub-plot stems from the fact that alot of people were unhappy that Fett went out like he did.

Oh, sure.  I was just saying that an elaborate sub-plot doesn't need to exist for him to live.  If he is dealt with adequately, and not just tossed aside like an extra in a weequay costume, then he has a point to be in the movie.   If he has plans to sell, then fine, but he still is unnecessary for the early scenes in Jabba's palace.

I agree about that. In fact, it made him seem weak when he drew his blaster at Boussh when she pulled out that detonator.

The ESB Fett would've iced her on the spot.

Bingowings said:

rcb said:

Davnes007 said:

rcb said:

rcb said:

[I] think it would be cool to do something like when [in ROTS] the republic cruiser comes [alongside] of grevious' ship, they start firing...and shoot the crap out of each other.
[In] the novel, it talks about blockade runners, [when] after [their] engines are gone, making suicide runs into the stardestroyers!

hey davnes, did u look on my posts about the comaprisons between ROTS ROTJ space battles? i'd like to see u make something out of it.

Yes, I did, but I'm not sure my current skills are quite up to the task. Besides stealing some footage from ROTS, I'm not sure what I could do, really. However, any thoughts you have about that, or any other footage that I could use would be gladly accepted. :)

 

with the blockade runner deal, there is the scene where the tie fighter crashes into the bridge, maybe u can substitute the tie for the blockade runner. the bridge would need to fall off or something. i can't find the clip on youtube, but in the movie star shiptroopers, there is a scene where and asteroid is coming at a cruiser, it knocks the bridge off. that's wat i picture. if u can find the clip and look at it maybe that'll give u something to work with.

on boba, in the novel, it says he used his flamethrower to get himself out sense his jetpack was damaged. only scene i can think of him using a flamethrower is jango in AOTC. Then u could just take lines out of jangos/boba's scenes. "Solo! your dead" (boba lines ESB) lands on sand "Arrgh" (jango line AOTC).

i'd do it all myself, unfortunatly one of my computers won't run it and the one i'm on now says my system's too fast for the software. heck if i know what that means.

 

Here's a stab at the attack of Corvette Squadron:

 

that is the scene i was thinking of! good work!

Sluggo, Vader's plan is to get Luke (hopefully before the Emperor).

The Endor trap is key to his plans and the Emperor's, Fett in that very simple subplot is being paid to help Vader in that task.

The same was true when he hired Fett to find the Falcon (he wanted hostages to lure Luke to him).

Fett was paid twice for that job (once by Vader and once by Jabba).

In this storyline he is luring the Rebels into a trap which will also draw Luke to Vader.

Fett will be paid twice for that job (once by Vader and once by the Rebels).

Beyond the difficulty of making the sequence I can't see a problem with that or how it works in a way contrary to how the characters are all known to behave.

It also makes Fett more complicated than just Jabba's bodyguard (which seems to be his primary role thanks to ROTJ in it's current form and ANH:SE).

Fett is a buisnessman, he will take money from whoever will pay him (what happens to them after he has done job is none of his concern).

The scenes in the palace could be done away with but it could be implied that he is there to make the deal with the Rebels or just having a bit of rest after dropping off Han, we don't know what happened between ESB and ROTJ, Fett might have had to have fight his way to get there with other bounty hunters trying to claim Han's bounty (I think George did some comic book game thing along those lines) but in terms of re-introducing the character it does no harm having in the palace for a while.

Opportunities for business certainly hang around Jabba.

shanerjedi said:

I agree about that. In fact, it made him seem weak when he drew his blaster at Boussh when she pulled out that detonator.

The ESB Fett would've iced her on the spot.

Shooting someone holding a grenade is a sure fire way of getting yourself and everyone else in the room blown up.

despite all the good arguments made for having fett, i do feel it would be a distracting subplot, and kind of unnecessary, and could be viewed as a fan service (like fett in AOTC). i would only include him if you find that the restructured ROTJ creates a gap that he could fill. i wouldnt go making a gap to put him in.

using him for plot movement, or an alternative reveal to an item would be cool. just a fett episode squeezed into the running of the film would be a bit silly.

Shooting someone holding a grenade is a sure fire way of getting yourself and everyone else in the room blown up.

Not with the right shot. ;)

ben_danger said:

despite all the good arguments made for having fett, i do feel it would be a distracting subplot, and kind of unnecessary, and could be viewed as a fan service (like fett in AOTC). i would only include him if you find that the restructured ROTJ creates a gap that he could fill. i wouldnt go making a gap to put him in.

As you say it's an idea and like some ideas on here it will appeal to some people and not to others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and nobody has cooked it yet.

Personally I'd like to see the idea made and if it becomes in my power to do so and nobody else does it I'll do it myself so people can put it in or leave it out or do it differently at their own discretion.

Fett in AOTC is a fan service when he isn't being a bounty hunter (I'm fine with him being hired to kill Padme, the clone template buisness was the fan service as was little boy Boba).

shanerjedi said:

Shooting someone holding a grenade is a sure fire way of getting yourself and everyone else in the room blown up.

Not with the right shot. ;)

 Shooting some holding a primed grenade and deactivating it would have to be a special shot indeed (I wonder where Fett was in 1963).

Bingowings said:

ben_danger said:

despite all the good arguments made for having fett, i do feel it would be a distracting subplot, and kind of unnecessary, and could be viewed as a fan service (like fett in AOTC). i would only include him if you find that the restructured ROTJ creates a gap that he could fill. i wouldnt go making a gap to put him in.

As you say it's an idea and like some ideas on here it will appeal to some people and not to others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and nobody has cooked it yet.

Personally I'd like to see the idea made and if it becomes in my power to do so and nobody else does it I'll do it myself so people can put it in or leave it out or do it differently at their own discretion.

Fett in AOTC is a fan service when he isn't being a bounty hunter (I'm fine with him being hired to kill Padme, the clone template buisness was the fan service as was little boy Boba).

 

 He was definitely a fan service in ANH.

I'd totally watch an alternate version of Jedi (at least once) where Fett sells the plans to the rebels.  That's the fun of these ideas.  I like some ideas, don't others and other folks like what they like.

It really is the double edge sword of the Special Editions.  Once Lucas changed the films, it totally blew any idea about what is canon and what is not away, if you take my meaning.  Once he opened the films for changes, all hell hath broken loose.  Totally agravating on one hand and kind of fun on the other.

Sluggo said:

Bingowings said:

ben_danger said:

despite all the good arguments made for having fett, i do feel it would be a distracting subplot, and kind of unnecessary, and could be viewed as a fan service (like fett in AOTC). i would only include him if you find that the restructured ROTJ creates a gap that he could fill. i wouldnt go making a gap to put him in.

As you say it's an idea and like some ideas on here it will appeal to some people and not to others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and nobody has cooked it yet.

Personally I'd like to see the idea made and if it becomes in my power to do so and nobody else does it I'll do it myself so people can put it in or leave it out or do it differently at their own discretion.

Fett in AOTC is a fan service when he isn't being a bounty hunter (I'm fine with him being hired to kill Padme, the clone template buisness was the fan service as was little boy Boba).

 

 

 He was definitely a fan service in ANH.

I'd totally watch an alternate version of Jedi (at least once) where Fett sells the plans to the rebels.  That's the fun of these ideas.  I like some ideas, don't others and other folks like what they like.

It really is the double edge sword of the Special Editions.  Once Lucas changed the films, it totally blew any idea about what is canon and what is not away, if you take my meaning.  Once he opened the films for changes, all hell hath broken loose.  Totally agravating on one hand and kind of fun on the other.

On the one hand it would have be great to see six (or nine) really good Star Wars films right off the bat but on the other hand Lucas has encouraged (by accident) a whole unstoppable wave of talent and creative thinking made possible in no small way by the technology his companies helped develop, which are now available for a large number of people to buy.