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The Problem with George Lucas — Page 3

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Akwat Kbrana said:

If Leonardo Da Vinci had come back thirty years after the unveiling of the Mona Lisa and crudely added a blue handlebar moustache and goatee, thus indelibly rendering the original inaccessible, it would be a travesty. Perhaps a few art lovers would cry out in infuriated protestation, and perhaps Da Vinci would reply, "Ah, but art it never finished, only abandoned. This is closer to my original vision than the old version." This would do little to allay the fury of those who wish to pay their respects to the original masterpiece, for it is neither an explanation nor an excuse, but a flimsy (and rather conceited) dismissal of the peoples' concern.

Actually, Mona Lisa is a prime example of Da Vinci's "Art is never finished, only abandoned" philosophy. He carried the thing around with him for years, abandoned it for a few, then came back to it and "finished" it shortly before he died, though perhaps he himself would not have considered it finished at the time. I am not even sure if he ever personally unveiled it himself. It also never became popular or even widely known until several hunred years after Da Vinci's death.

But, you have a good point in offering a work of art that, regardless of who legally owns it, very much belongs to the people. It is something we have looked at in awe for years. It has a history behind it. We've learned about it in elementary school, high school, and university, some of us have even seen it up close in person. It is one of the few works of art that has the distinction of being immediately recognizable by anyone with any kind of an education within the western world. Though it has undergone plenty of vandalism and touch ups over the last hundred years, any true alterations to it would be quite unforgivable.

Star Wars, while very different, shares some things in common with the Mona Lisa in that it is a well known popular piece of art. It was unveiled in 1977 and instantly became a favorite. People fell in love with it, grew up with it, came to know it rather intimately. It was in the eye of the public for twenty years. Much like the Mona Lisa, during this time it had become a property of the public, regardless of the fact GL owns full legal rights to it. Is it s bold statement to say it belonged to the public? Absolutely not! Who owns the rights to it is a mere legality. There are some things the law has absolutely no reign over. In twenty years time it has become a part of so many people's lives and childhoods. They watched it over and over, memorized it, reenacted it, through there money into buying likenesses of the characters. Star Wars very much belongs to the public, not in a legal sense, but in a real sense. Twenty years.

It is nothing short of a crime to come along over twenty years later and say that film no longer exists simply because you own the legal rights to it.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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My point precisely. I was, of course, speaking hypothetically so as to make a parellel rather than endeavoring to achieve historical accuracy vis-a-vis the Mona Lisa. :)

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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 (Edited)

I wasn't trying to show the historical inaccuracies of your parallel, obviously it was hypothetical. I thought it was funny you used an example of a work of art by the very guy Axia quoted as a means of bringing down his point. As well as a work of art where that quote was very applicable. It was more of an advanced rebuttle to the possibility that someone might point that out, showing how those points would be irrelevant and that your point still stands up rather well.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 (Edited)

Okay I'll try to express my feelings about this matter in the "best" english I can...

Da Vinci did not try to sell his Mona Lisa in VHS, then in Laserdisc, then in VHS widscreen, then in VHS 97SE, then in DVD 2004SE, then in DVD 2004SE+poor 2006 original transfer... I can understand that an artist wants to give his fans the best version (or what he think it is the best version) of his work. But when it's turning to an easy cash cow, people have the right to be angry. Of course we are not forced to buy (I still did not buy the GOUT for I have nice original widescreen VHS). Shit, I guess I'll buy the blue Ray though.....

From an artistic point of view I think, like C3PX, that once a movie is becoming a big part of the pop culture, it should always be available in its original form (the one that made it popular). It's like preserving an ancient monument. If the artist wants to add something to it, fine, but I feel that not making the original available is something wrong.

BUT, some could also say that if in 300 years from now people still want to watch Star Wars, they probably will not care if it's the 1977 version or the 2004 version. Both will looks antique! And maybe no more avalaibe in the current "video" fomat anyway. But if the artist wants his latest version to be THE version that last, can he really be blamed for that?

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Oh! TF.n is TheForce.net! Haha, I'm stupid. I did the same thing earlier today when my German teacher said "OD'd". Took me a while to realize "OD'd" meant "overdosed." I'm a member there, but whatever... it's stupid. Just look:

The archival editions are best left in a sealed vault, where they can never, ever be seen.

Lucas also continues to lead the fight for film preservation. "It's amazing," he says, "that you have to fight the studios to get them to preserve their films. . . . Parts of 'Dr. Strangelove' are gone; some of the music is lost. Kubrick is having to photograph individual frames to create a new fine-grain negative. That's madness, tragic madness."

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OzoneSherrif said:

Call me crazy but i thought the CG'd version of THX 1138 was an improvement. i mean there was actually some smart decisions there

 

Most are actually improvements in THX 1138, but it is merely the idea that George would go back and change it. THX is one of the most visually brilliant films ever made. Now one has to have a tape to see the original version. THX isn't so bad CGI-wise, but George seems to have problems being satisfied. Indiana Jones would have probably been messed with if it had been a entirely Lucas run production.

You do what you can when you can. I'm a big supporter of Director's cuts-when they merit it! When a film is cut by a studio or butchered by an outside party-then it needs a new cut. When scenes are put back in that are necessary-a new cut is acceptable. Not one every time you feel like it!!

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
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George doesn't own the rights to THX-1138, so I'm hoping beyond hope that Warner Brothers includes the original cut when they put it out on blu-ray next year. But somehow I get the feeling that's not gonna happen. Would love to be surprised though.

It's the same situation with American Graffiti. Universal owns the rights to that one, and they could easily branch both versions onto the same disc.

Of course, I'm saying all this under the assumption that George didn't cut some kind of a deal to get more control over those movies.

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C3PX said:
Akwat Kbrana said:

If Leonardo Da Vinci had come back thirty years after the unveiling of the Mona Lisa and crudely added a blue handlebar moustache and goatee, thus indelibly rendering the original inaccessible, it would be a travesty. Perhaps a few art lovers would cry out in infuriated protestation, and perhaps Da Vinci would reply, "Ah, but art it never finished, only abandoned. This is closer to my original vision than the old version." This would do little to allay the fury of those who wish to pay their respects to the original masterpiece, for it is neither an explanation nor an excuse, but a flimsy (and rather conceited) dismissal of the peoples' concern.

Actually, Mona Lisa is a prime example of Da Vinci's "Art is never finished, only abandoned" philosophy. He carried the thing around with him for years, abandoned it for a few, then came back to it and "finished" it shortly before he died, though perhaps he himself would not have considered it finished at the time. I am not even sure if he ever personally unveiled it himself. It also never became popular or even widely known until several hunred years after Da Vinci's death.

But, you have a good point in offering a work of art that, regardless of who legally owns it, very much belongs to the people. It is something we have looked at in awe for years. It has a history behind it. We've learned about it in elementary school, high school, and university, some of us have even seen it up close in person. It is one of the few works of art that has the distinction of being immediately recognizable by anyone with any kind of an education within the western world. Though it has undergone plenty of vandalism and touch ups over the last hundred years, any true alterations to it would be quite unforgivable.

Star Wars, while very different, shares some things in common with the Mona Lisa in that it is a well known popular piece of art. It was unveiled in 1977 and instantly became a favorite. People fell in love with it, grew up with it, came to know it rather intimately. It was in the eye of the public for twenty years. Much like the Mona Lisa, during this time it had become a property of the public, regardless of the fact GL owns full legal rights to it. Is it s bold statement to say it belonged to the public? Absolutely not! Who owns the rights to it is a mere legality. There are some things the law has absolutely no reign over. In twenty years time it has become a part of so many people's lives and childhoods. They watched it over and over, memorized it, reenacted it, through there money into buying likenesses of the characters. Star Wars very much belongs to the public, not in a legal sense, but in a real sense. Twenty years.

It is nothing short of a crime to come along over twenty years later and say that film no longer exists simply because you own the legal rights to it.

Actually, Mona Lisa is a prime example of Da Vinci's "Art is never finished, only abandoned" philosophy. He carried the thing around with him for years, abandoned it for a few, then came back to it and "finished" it shortly before he died, though perhaps he himself would not have considered it finished at the time. I am not even sure if he ever personally unveiled it himself. It also never became popular or even widely known until several hunred years after Da Vinci's death.

If da Vinci came back from the dead now and started fucking with the Mona Lisa, people wouldn't be happy. Unlike the unfinished Mona Lisa, the supposedly unfinished OOT was released to the public as if it was a finished work. Also, the OOT was embraced by the public in the years before Lucas's revision, whereas the Mona Lisa was not embraced by the public before da Vinci  finished it. In effect, Lucas gave the OOT to the world. Once given, it cannot rightly be taken back.

But, you have a good point in offering a work of art that, regardless of who legally owns it, very much belongs to the people. It is something we have looked at in awe for years. It has a history behind it. We've learned about it in elementary school, high school, and university, some of us have even seen it up close in person. It is one of the few works of art that has the distinction of being immediately recognizable by anyone with any kind of an education within the western world. Though it has undergone plenty of vandalism and touch ups over the last hundred years, any true alterations to it would be quite unforgivable.

Star Wars, while very different, shares some things in common with the Mona Lisa in that it is a well known popular piece of art. It was unveiled in 1977 and instantly became a favorite. People fell in love with it, grew up with it, came to know it rather intimately. It was in the eye of the public for twenty years. Much like the Mona Lisa, during this time it had become a property of the public, regardless of the fact GL owns full legal rights to it. Is it s bold statement to say it belonged to the public? Absolutely not! Who owns the rights to it is a mere legality. There are some things the law has absolutely no reign over. In twenty years time it has become a part of so many people's lives and childhoods. They watched it over and over, memorized it, reenacted it, through there money into buying likenesses of the characters. Star Wars very much belongs to the public, not in a legal sense, but in a real sense. Twenty years.

It is nothing short of a crime to come along over twenty years later and say that film no longer exists simply because you own the legal rights to it.

 

 Very good argument. I agree all the way.

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skyjedi2005 said:

And When the old dude Croaks he comes back as a creapy looking dude who is like 19 and looks nothing like Shaw.  Luke goes wtf? where is my father,lol.

 

 Lol. Yeah.

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skyjedi2005 said:

When the old dude Croaks he comes back as a creapy looking dude who is like 19 year old and looks nothing like Shaw.  Luke goes wtf? where is my father,lol.

Yeah, that scene is creepy. It is like DaVinci and Salai.

http://www.ovimagazine.com/art/1046

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Vaderisnothayden said:

If da Vinci came back from the dead now and started fucking with the Mona Lisa, people wouldn't be happy. Unlike the unfinished Mona Lisa, the supposedly unfinished OOT was released to the public as if it was a finished work. Also, the OOT was embraced by the public in the years before Lucas's revision, whereas the Mona Lisa was not embraced by the public before da Vinci  finished it. In effect, Lucas gave the OOT to the world. Once given, it cannot rightly be taken back.

 

Dude, if da Vinci came back from the dead now, his fucking with the Mona Lisa would be the least of my concerns! I'd be geniunely freaked out.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 (Edited)

Does anybody know if there has ever been a biography of Lucas's Films rather than a biography of the man that tries to uncover every crumb about his personal life.

Lucas should be judged as a film maker on the merits of his films and not his idiosyncrasies of being a human being like us all and flawed.

Just wondering because i think a book that traced the themes that run through all his films from his student shorts up to present time would be interesting.

I have no personal animosity to the man.  I am still a fan of lucas and only want to see him embrace the films he made that we all love rather than to keep them buried, meaning the star wars oot of course.

I love the original version of Graffiti and THX too and would love to have them on dvd in anamorphic form side by side with the original star wars trilogy.

Why is he unhappy with the original version of the films.  I could see the changes being made if fans hated the films and thought they were flawed.  But fans by and large love the original trilogy as it was made. I mean if you were sucessful and had a hit that became a classic why ruin a good thing?

We already know of musicians, novelists and film makers revising and changing their work.  Why condemn Lucas for what is considered the norm when it comes to artists works.  I mean if he preserved the original versions of the films in archival quality there really would be no reason for forums with so called whiny fanboys.

Mythologist Campbell thought the original trilogy was a true work of art.  And so why destroy that art with adding silly cgi cartoons.  I mean does someone come along and draw over original paintings with crayon and go "yeah i think this looks better".

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Quite apart from the issue of the preservation/restoration/availability of the OT, I think one major issue with the SE changes is that they don't fit with the original films and show a lack of understanding of those films. Like the awful CGI Jabbas, the cartoon creatures in the Jabba's palace musical thing, Han shooting second, Hayden Christensen replacing Shaw, Temuera Morrison's pathetic voice work replacing Jason Wingreen's great work, etc. That stuff is more like pure vandalism than it's like any sort of valid artistic alteration.

It's not so much like a case of some artist coming back years later to change their work, so much as it's like a case of an artist going nuts and being put in a mental asylum and twenty years later escaping and crapping all over their work.