C3PX said:
I am through with this discussion. Reading some of your hair brained bullcrap is really beginning to insult my intelligence, and I really don't care that much about the subject at hand to go around in circles about it anyway.
Oh I see, thinking differently from C3PX = "hair brained bullcrap." Nice to know that. So you see a different way of looking at things and thinking about things that doesn't give in and back down and go "Sorry, I realize I should be thinking like C3PX" and your reaction is to decide that means the thinking must be crap. Because your mind doesn't work like mine then my mind must be full of shit. I'm glad to find out you're so open to other ways of thinking.
Btw, it's "hare-brained", not "hair-brained".
I see nothing at the end of the film to indicate a definite end. Absolutely nothing. You've failed to show me anything. You have yet to offer anything other than odd reasoning to defend your side. The fact is, at the end of the film there is still a big fleet out there. I am not trying to force the movie to follow my adult form of logic that it doesn't follow. I am not trying to force it to be an adult movie and not a kids movie all the while suffering from denial as you have decided I have. Just because it is a kids movie doesn't mean it has to toss out every inch of reason. That is great that you think it does. Bravo. You seem to be a very well grounded individual.
You are still refusing to understand the principle that just because logic dictates something should happen in the story doesn't mean it happens, because logic doesn't rule in this story. Just because it's a kids' fairytale doesn't mean we should toss out every inch of reason, true. Neither I nor Kasdan nor Lucas tossed out every inch of reason. But where logic gets in the way of where the story needs to go then reason IS tossed out. As has been demonstrated elsewhere in the film. I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand that. I can only theorize that the reason you are so resistant to understanding it is because you don't want Star Wars to be something that works like that. You may not be in denial about it being a kids' film, but you leave me no option but to assume you are in denial about the rules of how this sort of kids' story works. In that sense it seems to me that you are indeed trying to force it to fit to logical adult rules that it doesn't run by.
And it's not true to say that I've shown you nothing. I've pointed to what you need to see, which you'd see if you were open to it. I have also brought up supporting evidence, like stuff said by Lucas about the film.
Anyway, time to end this pointlessness now. Anything else you say on this subject will not be getting a response from me. Why? Because you are saying the same damn thing over and over again, only in longer and longer posts. Having to read longer posts of the same thing, then having you add in about my denial issues isn't going to change my mind about this, it is just going to try my patience.
I'm sorry if my comments about denial bother you so much, but you're not the only one who can get frustrated and you've been giving me a lot of argument about this on two different threads AFTER you'd already conceded and said my argument was right and that you were mistaken. I'm sorry but I find it dishonest to concede and then go back on it like that. You've gotten me quite fed up and I've found myself throwing up my arms in despair at you repeatedly coming out with arguments that to me seemed desperately obtuse and narrow. It's only natural that I reach for an explanation for your behavior. I'm sorry if it bothered you.
And you need to note that you've been saying pretty much the same sort of thing repeatedly yourself.
Also, you totally missed my whole thing with The Hobbit too, I was comparing Smug to the Death Star and Vader and Palps, the immediate threats. And the orc army to the Imperials. At the end of the book the orcs are still out there, a threat to peace and freedom on the people of Middle-Earth, but not an immediate threat. That is the same way I feel about ROTJ. The Imperials are still out there, still a threat to peace and freedom in the galaxy, but not an immediate threat. Which is why to me, being someone going down the path of nuttiness and denial that I am (according to you anyway), both the The Hobbit and ROTJ can end on a happy note without lying to kids and trying to convince them the world is now perfect just because there are happy moments.
You didn't make it at all clear that you were comparing Smaug to Vader/Palpatine/Death Star. You sounded like you were under the impression that Smaug might come back after the end of the book. And a comparison between the Hobbit's goblins (they were called goblins not orcs in The Hobbit) does not work. If the empire was still around it would be a pretty immediate threat. Not immediate as in of that moment, bit immediate as in they would have to fight them soon. It was not implied in the end of The Hobbit that a big war with the goblins was necessary any time soon. There was no war going on at the end of The Hobbit. But if the empire was still around the rebels would still be in a war at the end of ROTJ. As such the goblins at the end of The Hobbit are a very different situation from the threat of the empire hanging over the rebels as it would be in your version of the end of ROTJ. The conflict was OVER at the end of The Hobbit, hence the happily ever after ending. But in your vision of ROTJ the conflict would NOT be over, hence no happily ever after. Bilbo Baggins doesn't have to fight any goblins after The Hobbit, but Han and Luke and Leia would have to fight lots of imperials soon after ROTJ if you were right.
Anyway, none of this really matters.
Yes it does matter. This is the end of the only real Star Wars story that we're talking about here. It matters if Star Wars matters. And if it didn't matter to you, you wouldn't be arguing with me about it on three threads. But if you feel it doesn't matter enough to continue debating with me about it, then please feel free to stop and to avoid debating it with me about it on any future threads, because our discussions on the matter are not working out well.
Look, I'm sorry if I've pissed you off. I think you're right that this discussion should end here.