STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 332

doubleofive said:

For those wondering, here is what Ady has to contend with when it comes to The Last Three Walkers:

Also notice the wildly varied backgrounds.

Wow...never noticed that, all these years.  And we think the Prequels are bad with continuity...How did that ever pass?

Note the last image! the turret points the rebels.

An obvious reversed/WTF shot.

The sun is always behind the rebels.... not to mention that it changes postion al the time..

-Angel

InfoDroid said:

 

doubleofive said:

For those wondering, here is what Ady has to contend with when it comes to The Last Three Walkers:

 

 

Also notice the wildly varied backgrounds.

 

Wow...never noticed that, all these years.  And we think the Prequels are bad with continuity...How did that ever pass?

I'm sure it came down to money.  "Hey, this shot needs another week's worth of work to make it match!" "Eh, no one will ever notice."

I feel bad for you Ady... you're doing amazing work, and, although the intent of the forum members is to give you constructive feedback, you must feel at times like we do nothing but bitch :)

Just wanted to let you know that your thoughtful, patient responses explaining the rationale behind your decisions is much appreciated.

also the whole continuity problems will mean that unless i can get new shots of the ESB AT-ST to insert into this sequence, then it will have to go from the shot where luke looks up to see the AT-AT explode. One minute its there and the next its gone

doubleofive said:

Comparison by me, coming in a few minutes.

Here it is:

Awesome that Ady used Vaderios' matte.  It's good stuff there!

In this case, I like the original DVD shot better.  I could see adding an AT-AT in the mid ground on the left (to balance the far off AT-AT and the foreground one - one that is mid size between the 2 we see) but the matte Ady is using looks very fakish.  I could see maybe doing something with the cloudscape, but the back"ground" should stay the same (just color corrected).

Monroville said:

In this case, I like the original DVD shot better.  I could see adding an AT-AT in the mid ground on the left (to balance the far off AT-AT and the foreground one - one that is mid size between the 2 we see) but the matte Ady is using looks very fakish.  I could see maybe doing something with the cloudscape, but the back"ground" should stay the same (just color corrected).

But nothing of the original DVD shot makes any sense with any of the shots around it, like I showed.  And its suddenly foggy in the shots with Luke's target walker.  Doesn't make any sense.

adywan said:

also the whole continuity problems will mean that unless i can get new shots of the ESB AT-ST to insert into this sequence, then it will have to go from the shot where luke looks up to see the AT-AT explode. One minute its there and the next its gone

Is there any way to create a new shot with 3-D models?  Similar to the way you added the TIE fighters in ANH?

InfoDroid said:

adywan said:

also the whole continuity problems will mean that unless i can get new shots of the ESB AT-ST to insert into this sequence, then it will have to go from the shot where luke looks up to see the AT-AT explode. One minute its there and the next its gone

Is there any way to create a new shot with 3-D models?  Similar to the way you added the TIE fighters in ANH?

Its the walking animation that no one can seem to get right that's the problem.  Flying TIEs around is easy, they have no moving parts. :-)

doubleofive said:

For those wondering, here is what Ady has to contend with when it comes to The Last Three Walkers:

Also notice the wildly varied backgrounds.

Makes sense that more than one would be brought down by tripping them, and they probably would fall in similar ways.

I wish you made it more cloudy and less open bright sky - there is something that just doesn't work with those shots: I would almost rather you space out the 3 AT-ATs and maybe add one on Veer's left in the last shot above.

Remember, the focus should be on Luke, not the 3 AT-ATs grouped together, the one falling down and the brightly lit mountains in the back, etc.

-Edited-

My optics need cleaning

vaderios said:

Tie fighters? How about Republic Cruisers? and Hellfire droids and an army of Stormies?And droid spiders? And Landed Star destroyers? lol J/k

 

For what reason? i mean after the shields are down Tie fighter must take action to eliminate the remains or shoot escaping vehicles ;)

 

-Angel

You misread, Angel.  We were discussing the added CGI TIEs in ANHR, not adding TIEs to the Hoth battle.

doubleofive said:

Monroville said:

In this case, I like the original DVD shot better.  I could see adding an AT-AT in the mid ground on the left (to balance the far off AT-AT and the foreground one - one that is mid size between the 2 we see) but the matte Ady is using looks very fakish.  I could see maybe doing something with the cloudscape, but the back"ground" should stay the same (just color corrected).

But nothing of the original DVD shot makes any sense with any of the shots around it, like I showed.  And its suddenly foggy in the shots with Luke's target walker.  Doesn't make any sense.

There is nothing saying you can't redo the skyline and make it clearer.  You could bring the distant AT-AT a little closer, and add Veer's AT-AT in the midground left.  That way the focus is still on Luke, not these packed-together AT-ATs with other things happening all at once.  You would have to space out the AT-ATs in the triple front shot to match the distances between them seen in the Luke one though.

it's just that the Ady shot is so brightly lit (from foreground to background) that it appears that they are all near the same plane of focus with a mountain backdrop - it just doesn't look convincing to me.  It is as if a OT shot was created to a Prequel shot.

Monroville said:

I wish you made it more cloudy and less open bright sky - there is something that just doesn't work with those shots: I would almost rather you space out the 3 AT-ATs and maybe add one on Veer's left in the last shot above.

Remember, the focus should be on Luke, not the 3 AT-ATs grouped together, the one falling down and the brightly lit mountains in the back, etc.

 

but why make it more cloudy when the rest of the battle has more blue sky?  funny thing is that i have used the same sky as the original so the sky hasn't changed.lol. the battle is taking place on a clear day. the original shot made it suddenly jump to a dark, kinda stormy day. the mountains are brightly lit throughout. so i see no need for me to change this shot from the way it stands now.

vaderios said:

Tie fighters? How about Republic Cruisers? and Hellfire droids and an army of Stormies?And droid spiders? And Landed Star destroyers? lol J/k

I'd prefer buzz droids.  ;)

But, no.  I get what you're saying, Doubleofive.  I'm sure the "walking" animation would be much more difficult.  An AT-ST model in front of a blue-screen would be much easier to composit.  That'd still be tricky though, getting the lighting right and everything. 

Bingowings said:

Monroville said :

In this case, I like the original DVD shot better. I could see adding an AT-AT in the mid ground on the left (to balance the far off AT-AT and the foreground one - one that is mid size between the 2 we see) but the matte Ady is using looks very fakish. I could see maybe doing something with the cloudscape, but the back"ground" should stay the same (just color corrected).

I can't agree with you there, the original looks like what it is (a nice painting propped behind the models and hidden behind a weird tint) Ady's shots have much more depth to them, they look less like a theatre backdrop and more like a real landscape.

Um, Bingo?  Are we looking at the same 2 pictures?  Granted, I would like the DVD shot color corrected, but you can't tell me that the background on the DVD shot looks more like a painting than the backdrop on the Ady pic.  Everything is so brightly lit that it is hard to tell just how far back the image really goes - it is the same problem with a lot of Prequel shots in that a lot of movies nowadays in general has that "everything must be lit up to show where the money was spent" look which looks fake.

When there is no real distinguishment between the foreground, midground and background, anything is going to look flat.

Bah; some people are never satisfied. I, for one, think the new shot looks terrific. The lighting, colour, composition, and clarity are all vast improvements over the original. Nicely done, Ady. :)

adywan said:

Monroville said:

I wish you made it more cloudy and less open bright sky - there is something that just doesn't work with those shots: I would almost rather you space out the 3 AT-ATs and maybe add one on Veer's left in the last shot above.

Remember, the focus should be on Luke, not the 3 AT-ATs grouped together, the one falling down and the brightly lit mountains in the back, etc.

 

but why make it more cloudy when the rest of the battle has more blue sky?  funny thing is that i have used the same sky as the original so the sky hasn't changed.lol. the battle is taking place on a clear day. the original shot made it suddenly jump to a dark, kinda stormy day. the mountains are brightly lit throughout. so i see no need for me to change this shot from the way it stands now.

 

Are you going to get rid of the large fog bank (or potential coming storm) that the AT-ATs are first seen in?  Weather changes, especially in artic areas.  Why is it hard to believe that a clear sky can't turn to stormy (or something even lighter than a storm) weather?   Being that we see the walkers far off in the distance coming out of a large fog bank, that can account for any changes in the weather shots during the battle. 

The problem after that then is continuity - I know that the Wedge scene has clear skies, so you would either have to show the fog bank/storm approaching in the distance or change the clear sky plates to be more cloudy.

Even then, my main argument is the focus of the image.  The sky area could be replaced much like what you did for the ion cannon shot.  The ground and hill could remain, just replace the sky with a clearer blue one, bring the far right AT-AT closer (about 2x size), add another AT-AT on the left that is mid sized between the foreground AT-AT and the new background one and thus, all 3 remaining AT-ATs are accounted for and the focus is still on Luke; I know, easier said than done - I'm not doing the work. 

But please think about the composition of the image, not just the stuff that's in it.  I never bought that whole "putting stuff in a movie simply because you can" argument, because if anything is going to be added, it still has to have something to do with a movie's storyline.  It is only when something STANDS OUT and distracts that it becomes a detriment to a film or film edit (KILLER HORIZON: excellent edit, but there is one scene where too much is garnered from EMILY ROSE that it is obviously EMILY ROSE scenes stuffed into the movie, which then takes me OUT of the movie).

Having "more AT-ATs" or "more TIEs" would make sense because the Empire would send an army to go after whoever.  I'm not making the argument to do that "with this edit" (you have made it quite clear what you are doing with EMPIRE:R), but what I am saying that to do so would not constitute a "doing it for the sake of it" thing (as opposed to 2 or 20 Death Stars in JEDI, or overloading any scene with so much stuff you can't tell what's going on), provided that you do something with the additions.

Granted, I have not seen this in motion, but it does feel like it is too much for one shot - whether the AT-ATs need to be spaced out a little more, something done with the mountains... it is just that everything is so in focus that it doesn't look real and that is what concerns me.