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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 36

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Monroville said:

I think one of my biggest problems when it came to the LOOK of the Prequels was just how brightly lit everything was.  I can understand everything isn't as "beat up" as the OT tech, but the plethora of shiny stuff gave away the CGI-ness of everything.

Same thing with all of the city shots: no faded bluish buildings (atmosphere haze or smog), no morning or dusk shots - everything was 12:00 noon broad daylight (Naboo) or nighttime (Coruscant).

 

Heh:

At least in the ROTJ celebrations i d like to see some of them to be morning like a new dawn :)

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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Octorox said:

No offense but I completely despise TheoOdo's idea. The point of the prequels is to show the glory day's of the old republic and how they came to an end. There needs to be a huge but gradual shift in attitude and style from TPM to ANH. To have the Jedi and the Republic  already laughable Day 1 does not show that.

Well, like Monroville said...the TF are implying this...not that they actually ARE (think about Tarkin's statements in ANH).

Here's my take on this glory day/hey day of the republic/Jedi dialouge that's always thrown about. Guess where we all got this particular wording/thought process? That's right. Lucas himself. Remember those web docs they released before each prequel film?

And when you look at each film with those thoughts already in your mind-...

It's kind of like if Lucas had said "In the PT you'll find that 2 + 2 = 4." Then, after hearing this, you go see these movies and on screen it's showing that 1 + 1 = 4! And we are trying to make it all fit in our minds: "But Lucas SAID it was the other way...so...it MUST be there SOMEWHERE in the films!" And it's simply not there but we don't want to give up on making it work-...hmmm...that's what this whole forum is about isn't it? ;)

The Jedi ARE in their prime...I think that's what Lucas intended, but it's not on screen. If they were in their prime, they would have found "alternatives to fighting" and the like.

Forgive my rambling...I'm still figuring out my take on the PT. I think I just contradicted myself a few times! ;)

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Here's my stab at a new crawl for TPM (it needs to be spaced better because the .... is floating on it's own) :

New TPM Crawl

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Bingowings said:

Here's my stab at a new crawl for TPM (it needs to be spaced better because the .... is floating on it's own) :

Wow, combine this with what TheoOdo said before, and you get the TPM I was hoping for.

Good job!

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JasonN said:

Who the hell is "General Zod"? (what, Chancellor Valorum? When was he ever made a General in the PT?)

General Zod is who Terrence Stamp (Chancellor Valorum) played in "Superman" and "Superman II."  It's generally regarded as his most famous role.

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i love theodos dialogue, it brings some decent character to the federation goons, and calling to 'legends' of the jedi, makes them sound that extra bit more unknown that we need for suggestions that they are in the OT.

 

i would love it if the whole 'sith' concept could be written out. sith are one of my favourite things in star wars, but as they ernt invented until after the OT, it would be good perhaps to just have it that palpatine is a force user who indulges in the dark side, and anakin falls to the dark side. the 'sith' in this context may over complicate things perhaps? unless the term 'sith' could somehow be slipped into the OT.

 

the big jedi battle from AOTC would be really cool in TPM, for a climax in the centre of theed. it could perhaps eliminate the need for the gungan battle, and maybe the gungans altogether. perhaps as the republic refuse assistance, the jedi take it upon themselves to do so?

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I think you need the Gungans (just not stupid Gungans).

I see them like native Americans during the American Civil War.

Their initial attitude would be resentment to both sides, it was always their planet and the Naboo and the Neimoidians are both invaders (all be it that the Naboo have been around long enough to be established as a seperate community).

They just want them to both bugger off.

But in the end they figure that the Naboo aren't a threat to their current way of life but the Trade Federation are and join sides with them.

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ben_danger said:

i love theodos dialogue, it brings some decent character to the federation goons, and calling to 'legends' of the jedi, makes them sound that extra bit more unknown that we need for suggestions that they are in the OT.

 

i would love it if the whole 'sith' concept could be written out. sith are one of my favourite things in star wars, but as they ernt invented until after the OT, it would be good perhaps to just have it that palpatine is a force user who indulges in the dark side, and anakin falls to the dark side. the 'sith' in this context may over complicate things perhaps? unless the term 'sith' could somehow be slipped into the OT.

 

the big jedi battle from AOTC would be really cool in TPM, for a climax in the centre of theed. it could perhaps eliminate the need for the gungan battle, and maybe the gungans altogether. perhaps as the republic refuse assistance, the jedi take it upon themselves to do so?

 

 They had the sith in the OT, they just never made it into the movies.  They were in the script of Star Wars and in the novel.  The scenes that mentioned Vader was a sith lord were cut.  It never established exactly what a sith was however.  The EU came along and expanded it in the 80's, then it was really expanded in the 90's, and sort of reigned in for the prequels.  It has always been sort of a mess.

Palpatine was invented as a senator who became Emperor through manipulating the system.  And he was a force user, but originally, he never really was associated with the Jedi or Sith.

 

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Octorox said:

No offense but I completely despise TheoOdo's idea. The point of the prequels is to show the glory day's of the old republic and how they came to an end. There needs to be a huge but gradual shift in attitude and style from TPM to ANH. To have the Jedi and the Republic already laughable Day 1 does not show that.

For me, the most important thing any fanedit can do is make the films of the PT mesh better with the OT. In ANH, it's clear the Old Republic is long gone. There's a sense that the Empire has been around for a long time, and a sense of loss for the ancient glory days. In order for those glory days to be ancient and worth that nostalgia, they would have to honestly have been gone for some time, in my view. The Republic is still the republic, but as Palpatine says in the original cut of TPM, "it's not what it once was".

I think something that is very clear in the OT is that sense of loss. When we're with Yoda on Dagobah in ESB, there is a sense that he is a purveyor of a lost ancient wisdom but to show that time straight up...it cannot compare to the immense spectacle that builds up in our imaginations. When we watch Yoda training younglings in AOTC, it suddenly seems trivial and mundane.

Certain things should be cloaked, I feel, if they are to retain their power. Is the Republic as we see in the PT worthy of that feeling of loss? I don't think so, so I think it should instead be stated that, once again, the glory days are out of sight and fit back into the comfortable mists of our imagination where they can take on grand, exaggerated forms. The important thing is the idea of a good, just society. That is not the society we see in the PT.

To say it in short, the Old Republic should be an idealised society, in my view. Such a society cannot be successfully presented literally.

Secondly, my meaning with the new dialogue was to show not that the Jedi are a joke, but that they are mythical and mysterious with some, especially the enemies of the Republic, even doubting their existence. This, I think, lends them more mystery and explains better why a mere 18 years after their fall people would be so skeptical about their existence and the existence of the Force as we see, for example, Han Solo and the chocked imperial both are.

That's my explanation of what I meant, and I think I'm rambling a bit now, but, hey, to each his own.

 

Edit: Another idea. Can we have at least one mention of Anakin Skywalker being a famous starpilot in an opening crawl? For all Obi-Wan's talk in ANH, we certainly don't see a lot of starpiloting on Anakin's part...so if we can't see, at least let us know it.

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I can't see where you would put a reference to Anakin's piloting skills into a prequel crawl or why you would need to.

You see him pilot a Racing Pod, a Naboo Starfighter, an Airspeeder, a Swoopbike and a Jedi Starfighter in the films, the crawl is just a means of setting up what you need to know at the beginning of each film.

You can't do it for TPM because we haven't met him, the Seperatist movement is the big change in AOTC and the Clone War is the big event of between AOTC and ROTS.

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Bingowings said:

I can't see where you would put a reference to Anakin's piloting skills into a prequel crawl or why you would need to.

You see him pilot a Racing Pod, a Naboo Starfighter, an Airspeeder, a Swoopbike and a Jedi Starfighter in the films, the crawl is just a means of setting up what you need to know at the beginning of each film.

You can't do it for TPM because we haven't met him, the Seperatist movement is the big change in AOTC and the Clone War is the big event of between AOTC and ROTS.

I sort of mean something quick, like "infamous starpilot, Anakin Skywalker, and his Jedi Master, Obi-Wan Kenobi, lead a desperate mission to rescue the captive Chancellor…"

 

 

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Sluggo said:
ben_danger said:

i love theodos dialogue, it brings some decent character to the federation goons, and calling to 'legends' of the jedi, makes them sound that extra bit more unknown that we need for suggestions that they are in the OT.

 

i would love it if the whole 'sith' concept could be written out. sith are one of my favourite things in star wars, but as they ernt invented until after the OT, it would be good perhaps to just have it that palpatine is a force user who indulges in the dark side, and anakin falls to the dark side. the 'sith' in this context may over complicate things perhaps? unless the term 'sith' could somehow be slipped into the OT.

 

the big jedi battle from AOTC would be really cool in TPM, for a climax in the centre of theed. it could perhaps eliminate the need for the gungan battle, and maybe the gungans altogether. perhaps as the republic refuse assistance, the jedi take it upon themselves to do so?

 

 They had the sith in the OT, they just never made it into the movies.  They were in the script of Star Wars and in the novel.  The scenes that mentioned Vader was a sith lord were cut.  It never established exactly what a sith was however.  The EU came along and expanded it in the 80's, then it was really expanded in the 90's, and sort of reigned in for the prequels.  It has always been sort of a mess.

Palpatine was invented as a senator who became Emperor through manipulating the system.  And he was a force user, but originally, he never really was associated with the Jedi or Sith.

 

My take on the Sith thing is why take it out if it's doing no harm?

If you watch the films from 1 to 6 by the time you get to ANH you know what a Sith is so you don't need to hear it again and again.

If you watch them in the order they were made it just adds a little extra to the story.

Not all Sith were Jedi so not every dark side user followed the path that Vader took, finding that there is a rival cult of Force users out there adds a bit of extra flavour to the story.

 

 

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The way I understand it is, the Sith are kind of like a secret society.  They officially "don't exist".  No one knows the Emperor or Darth Vader are Dark Lords of the Sith by the time we get to ANH.  And any suggestion of that is probably passed off as ridculous, politically-motivated rumor.  It's not public knowledge, and probably not something they want to advertise given the Sith's long dubious history.

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InfoDroid said:

The way I understand it is, the Sith are kind of like a secret society.  They officially "don't exist".  No one knows the Emperor or Darth Vader are Dark Lords of the Sith by the time we get to ANH.  And any suggestion of that is probably passed off as ridculous, politically-motivated rumor.  It's not public knowledge, and probably not something they want to advertise given the Sith's long dubious history.

Like David Icke's shape shifting lizards of the Illuminati, I suppose (that would explain the eyes)?

 

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Bingowings said:
InfoDroid said:

The way I understand it is, the Sith are kind of like a secret society. They officially "don't exist". No one knows the Emperor or Darth Vader are Dark Lords of the Sith by the time we get to ANH. And any suggestion of that is probably passed off as ridculous, politically-motivated rumor. It's not public knowledge, and probably not something they want to advertise given the Sith's long dubious history.

Like David Icke's shape shifting lizards of the Illuminati, I suppose (that would explain the eyes)?

 

Honestly, I think secret society conspiracy theorism, whether it's lizards, illuminati, free masons or satanists is probably the perfect perspective from which to view the Sith...

 

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Hi everyone. There's some great ideas here. 

I really like your crawl bingowings.

Over the years, I did some rewrites and created a backstory to the entire thing.

Basically what I did was establish that Naboo is one of the most ancient houses in all the Republic. It's an ancient world with a past shrouded in legend. That's what those shrunken and half-buried heads symbolise.

I also established that the Sith once ruled in that part of the galaxy and are coveting the energy in the Naboo core. That's what that energy ball is that Boss Nass holds up at the end: the energy.

You could switch that over to the Neimoidians and have that as the real reason they want to invade. That was revealed later in my rewrites. The Sith used the Neimoidians as cover to get to naboo and the energy.

Later in Ep. 2 we , and Kenobi, would be told by the Kaminoans that the Naboo supplied them with their energy source to fuel the clone factories.

That tied my storyline together between ep 1 and 2.

So the whole invasion in ep. 1 was said by the Neimoidians to be because, and this is something I added back in that Lucas took out, a splinter group on the Naboo council requested they intervene because the Queen's failed leadership has led to chaos and starvation for her people.

Basically, the Neimoidian invasion was fairly benign; yet, the jedi sense something more afoot. hence, Qui-Gon's line: "There is something more to all this."

Bibble scoffs because he knows that's not the case.

And the treaty legalising the invasion wasnt that in my rewrite but a paper whereby the Queen would abdicate her throne and turn the rule over to the Naboo council.

Bibble is later found to be the turncoat.

It basically gave him a more important role in the story. Bibble becomes the Nemoidian puppet.

 

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As for ep. 2, I remember looking at Kamino and going: those energy tubes and the power looks like the generator tubes on Naboo during the final duel. That's what gave me the idea to link them.

I also took Jango, changed his name to Prima, and moved him into ep. 1 but only as one of a squad of mandalorian commandos that help the sith and federation.

Prima was then the lone survivor after the jedi and republic take them out at the end of ep. 1(which in my writing was the first major battle in the Clone Wars).

 

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Howdee Shanerjedi! Some nice ideas there (which I assume you would get over by giving the Kaminoans a language and subtitles).

I liked Magnoliafan's idea that the big ball was a holy relic that the Naboo had pinched off the Gungans.

Without any explanation that ball thing is flipping weird (here Nass shout peace while holding up a huge bomb).

The hollow planet thing must have been a dropped plotline (I thought that George was going to have Naboo turned into the Death Star or something when I first watched it).

I always thought it odd that Sidious insisted that Gunray got Amidala to sign the treaty while Palpatine insisted that she didn't.

I read that as Sidious/Palpatine wanted the conflict to be drawn out with Gunray chasing the legitimate take over line to the point where it would patently obvious it wasn't, sending the Federation out of the Republic and taking his financial chums with him.

With half the money gone the two sides would be more evenly matched and would knock more out of each other until there was nothing left but to surrender everything to the Empire.

It was something of a win, win situation for Palps, either the Queen signed away her planet's sovereign rights clearly under duress creating a scandal in the senate or Nute Gunray would be sent home with a flea in his ear making him more resentful and buttered up for the Seperatist cause.

 

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I liked Magnoliafan's idea that the big ball was a holy relic that the Naboo had pinched off the Gungans.

Yeah that worked well too. I really enjoyed his edit of TPM.

And I like your crawl idea suggesting a back story to episode one and the whole saga really.

 

 

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I've done 3 different ones over the years:

A)My own "radical" reimagining, 

B) a redux Lucas vision

C) a tweaked TPM shooting script.

The redux of Lucas' vision was like the opening of ANH with the Queen speeding away from her homeworld and going to Tatooine after her ship is damaged. Obi-Wan meets Anakin. Qui-Gon appears at Coruscant. End battle start of Clone Wars.

Basically taking ideas Lucas had in his revised rough draft and deleted scenes and put them in.

And I took all the Naboo/Amidala assassination plot from Ep. 2 and put it into Eppy 1, with revisions.

That cleared the way for Alderaan in Ep. 2, more Clone Wars, etc.

It basically upped the timeline to have the Clone Wars over by the end of Ep. 2.

That cleared the way for Ep. 3 to be all about The Emp, Anakin, Kenobi, and Amidala.

 

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One of the issues in TPM that confused me, was that a Trade Federation, some kind of shipping conglomerate with a 'trade franchise' ("robber barons" as called in the original Star Wars scripts) suddenly had an army and were invading planets.

Instead of "as you know, this blockade is perfectly legal" from the Nemoidian, if there was more "What the hell is the Trade Federation DOING??!?" from the heroes would have sold the fact Sidious was manipulating them into something drastic, instead of the TF just slightly overstepping the bounds of legal armed blockades into semi-legal invasion.

Imagine if CostCo suddenly invaded Oregon and claimed it. It would be shocking, out of character, and hint that perhaps there's a real menace, a PHANTOM menace, going on.

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TheBoost said:

Imagine if CostCo suddenly invaded Oregon and claimed it. It would be shocking, out of character, and hint that perhaps there's a real menace, a PHANTOM menace, going on.

Hahaha!  Good point!  The whole trade franchise/treaty thing never really made sense to me either, no matter how many times I've watched it.

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Bingowings said:

Here's my stab at a new crawl for TPM (it needs to be spaced better because the .... is floating on it's own) :

 

I like where you're going with this, but it seems a little wordy. He's my humble stab at a re-write.

 

"The Golden Age of the GALACTIC REPUBLIC is at an end.

Peace and stability have reigned for a thousand generations since the defeat of the vile SITH LORDS, but the Galactic Senate grows weak and complacent. Slavery and corruption sweep the worlds at the edges of the galaxy and the JEDI KNIGHTS, the Republics's keepers of peace and freedom, are bound by ancient law from intervening.

In a shocking move, the interstellar merchants of the TRADE FEDERATION has directed a massive battle fleet to blockade the peaceful world of Naboo. While the Senate debates endlessly, two Jedi knights are dispatched in secret to investigate what is behind this troubling turn of events..."

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I think the first paragraph needs to be longer - it just looks ... weird as one short sentence.

But I really like where it's going so far.

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I just dont like the idea that the jedi would sit by and allow slavery because of ancient law.

Maybe Qui-Gon goes against this?