The Problem with George Lucas — Page 2

Gaffer Tape said:

DarkFather said:Glad you aren't trying to debate me on my own preferances. Bruce Faulconer filled DBZ with music masterpieces. There are few who can even hold a candle to what he did.

 

Wait.... what?  You're serious?  Music masterpieces?  Preference is one thing, but I can't even begin to wrap my head around that.  How does the same droning synthesized note for 18 minutes straight constitute music at all, let alone a masterpiece?

What that quote should say is this:  "Shunsuke Kikuchi filled DBZ with music masterpieces.  There are few who can even hold a candle to what he did."

Having a bad day, Gaffer Tape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0FHHefVgmo

I like music where I can close my eyes and create a music video or movie of sorts in my mind.

No.  I wasn't trying to be confrontational, but I certainly do stand by what I said about Faulconer's music, and I would honestly love to know what exactly it is that DarkFather loves about it so much.

EDIT:  Whoops.  You beat me to the punch.  I can see how my post might might be looked at as extremely livid, but, no, I was mostly being facetious, and I apologize if I appeared to be belittling you.  You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but there are few things that evoke as much irritation to me as that pitiful excuse for music, especially when it's replacing an absolutely AMAZING score that fits the material so much better.  And this isn't some "elitist" attitude either.  I was introduced to the dub long before I saw the original version, and I hated the season 3 music the first time I heard back in '99.

My problem with Faulconer is that he gets all the credit where he did almost none of the work... I have no qualms with his music.

Gaffer, read what I said. I invite you to follow the link, lay back, and close your eyes while listening.

Music video idea: The beginning part would be the Alderaanian people going about their daily lives. Little do they know the Death Star has halted near their planet to pass a final judgment. 0:33 would be the beam suddenly diving into the planet's crust to cause a moment of catastrophe before it's all over.

To drag the moment out to better fit the length of the climax in the music, have the destruction of Alderaan from a surface POV be in slow motion.

I did read your post. It's just that you happened to post yours right before I posted mine. I was responding to bkev. I've edited that post to clarify. And I did check out the link. I do remember that part, and while it has some nostalgic response in me, I just have to say it's not really my thing. But that particular piece is admittedly better than most I remember. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm curious, though. What are your opinions on the original score, the Shuki Levy dub score (the original DBZ dub), and Mark Menza's music... eh, what am I even asking about him for? I'd long stopped watching the dub when he came into the picture, but what little I've heard doesn't sound any different from Faulconer's music, if you ask me. Anyway, just curious.

EDIT:  Oh, and I have to posit a guess that Faulconer's melodies might have sounded much, much more tolerable if they didn't sound so incredibly synthesized.

I am not familiar enough with the music therein. Are there any samples you could provide?

Here's one of the more well-known Japanese BGM tracks for Dragonball Z. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgE3IXxHHNA ; it's one of my favorites that I can remember off hand.  Reminds me of Ginyu Transformation, in that it builds up.

Heh, I knew it was going to be that one.  I don't know why, but I just knew.

The idea that Anakin died on Mustafar and that him and Vader are entirely seperate characters in the same body is so stupid.  That is the excuse for the Hayden as a ghost in Jedi.  I know of the term duality and such but must it be such a pathetic example of it?

Vader and Anakin are two sides of the same coin they are one and the same.  Here in Lucas revision it is almost making Kenobi a truth speaker in Star Wars 77. He killed and murdered himself, or kenobi killed him on mustafar what was kept alive was a zombie, robot that saved Luke and was admitted to Jedi Heaven,lol. And When the old dude Croaks he comes back as a creapy looking dude who is like 19 and looks nothing like Shaw.  Luke goes wtf? where is my father,lol.

I know i'm going off topic but man the 2004 cut of jedi is horrendous.

"I'm a ghost now? I hate ghosts. And I hate teddy bears. Mmm. My daughter looks as hot as her mother. Wish I still had my body."

...Yeah.  That's what's going through his head, just about.

bkev said:

Here's one of the more well-known Japanese BGM tracks for Dragonball Z. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgE3IXxHHNA ; it's one of my favorites that I can remember off hand.  Reminds me of Ginyu Transformation, in that it builds up.

Extremely minimalistic. Sounds all right, but Dragonball Z would be the last thing I would think about if I had listened to it without any context.

Here's another great one. Piccolo's Theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_2BSHbv3SY

I gues this is probably the right thread to mention a quick video I did for fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRNiL2Z1HEU

DarkFather said:

Extremely minimalistic. Sounds all right, but Dragonball Z would be the last thing I would think about if I had listened to it without any context.

Here's another great one. Piccolo's Theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_2BSHbv3SY

Sigh.  I've always been partial to my own Piccolo's theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U8FdCPrMaU

Especially from 4:30 onwards, that's the music I've always associated with Piccolo, the last couple of minutes being from DBZ movie 2, which was actually my first exposure to the Japanese score (the original dub actually used it).

See, our problem comes from what C3PX was talking about a while ago.  Even if I did believe that Faulconer's score was superior, I would still prefer the original music simply because that's what Dragon Ball is.  Remember when skyjedi was totally bashing Kevin Kiner's soundtrack for The Clone Wars?  That's because, to him, any score that isn't John Williams simply isn't Star Wars.  Now imagine if someone took the Star Wars movies and completely rescored them with a different composer.  Even if you liked the new score and thought it was good, I doubt you'd be pleased or be able to associate it as Star Wars, would you?

EDIT:  Oh, found another good selection, although one part repeats some Piccolo stuff from the last video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoilWsJI0Eg

Don't get me wrong.  I'm really enjoying this.  It's been a while since I searched for DB BGM, and if you continue to post links, I will continue to listen to yours as well. ^_^

One thing I thought was hilarious, back when I used to post on TF.N, was Lucasites trying to convince OUT fans that GOUT quality was a faithful duplication of the quality of the OUT. Thankfully, Zombie (and a few others) nutted all over those fools with his superior knowledge of filmmaking.

Also, there was a screamingly funny mock-critique of SW in reply to a thread entitled "Is A New Hope - Meh?" I forget who wrote the critique, but it was sooooo good. At one point, he criticized the Obi-Wan - Vader duel with: "...and yet, neither man twirled while in combat, where is the twirling??"

Pointless, but someone mentioned TF.N - I got nostalgic for a second.

Oh, yeah, I remember that.  All those idiots saying completely ridiculous things like, "Anamorphic didn't exist back then, so these DVDs shouldn't be anamorphic!" and "Movies didn't look good 30 years ago, so this is the way it looked back then!"  Man, what tools!

Wasn't the opening shot of Grafitti an improvement? I mean the movie takes place at night so instead of some boring mid day shot with an ugly building behind the diner, we see a sunset. I think it works much better.

And the scenes that were reinstated for the movie were always intended by Lucas to be in, the studio took them out. So really wouldn't that be no different from Spartacus?

EDIT: I think the problem with George Lucas is what he says about Anakin in the Episode III preview on the OT bonus disc. He can't let things go.

Gaffer Tape said: Oh, yeah, I remember that.  All those idiots saying completely ridiculous things like, "Anamorphic didn't exist back then, so these DVDs shouldn't be anamorphic!" and "Movies didn't look good 30 years ago, so this is the way it looked back then!"  Man, what tools!

That's what happens when parents don't put a limit on their kids' computer time ;-)

Gaffer Tape said:In my eyes, it doesn't matter if it's an improvement or not. A movie is what it is, and once it's finished, it should be left alone.

Gaffer Tape said:In my eyes, it doesn't matter if it's an improvement or not. A movie is what it is, and once it's finished, it should be left alone.

 ah but art is never finished, only abandoned.

Okay, then, I'll rephrase that:  "Once it's abandoned for the first time, it should stay abandoned."  Happy?

If Leonardo Da Vinci had come back thirty years after the unveiling of the Mona Lisa and crudely added a blue handlebar moustache and goatee, thus indelibly rendering the original inaccessible, it would be a travesty. Perhaps a few art lovers would cry out in infuriated protestation, and perhaps Da Vinci would reply, "Ah, but art it never finished, only abandoned. This is closer to my original vision than the old version." This would do little to allay the fury of those who wish to pay their respects to the original masterpiece, for it is neither an explanation nor an excuse, but a flimsy (and rather conceited) dismissal of the peoples' concern.

Absurdity? Perhaps. But so is the tampering to which George Lucas has subjected his own masterpiece, the seemingly insoluble revisionism from which he refuses to cease. It angers me, and flippant dismissal of such criticism is neither amicable nor fair.

AxiaEuxine said:

 ah but art is never finished, only abandoned.

As a bit of an artist myself, and even more so as a fan of the arts, I can say with complete and utter conviction that line is pure bullfuck!

Sorry Da Vinci...