Even in the prequels, Boba Fett is not a clone — Page 2

DarkFather said:Vaderisnothayden, there is no dishonor in throwing your hands up and admitting you are wrong, when you are plain as day: dead wrong. Just ask C3PX.

Why do you assume I'm wrong? Because you're less good with faces than me and can't see that those two guys actually have quite different faces? Most people are hopeless with faces. I'm not. I know what I'm talking about.

They both have zig-zaggy eyebrows in that comparison pic, but the brow overall is in fact quite different. The eyes are very different. The jaw is very different and that's not just due to the age difference, because it's different on the grown-up Logan too. The nose is at a distinctly different angle. The mouth is different. The forehead is different. The shape of head and overall shape of face is different. It's a different type of face. Of course if you're not good with faces maybe it's hard for you to see these things, but they're there. I know faces so these things stick out a lot more for me than for most people.

DarkFather said:

TheBoost was wrong in a sense. You are in fact a parody. I don't believe for a moment that you believe half the things you post. You're either a random troll, or someone on a self-appointed holy mission to make prequel bashers rethink their stance.

At the same time, you're smart enough to participate with some of the discussions to better camouflage yourself. This thread is really what gave you away.

Oh yeah, I have a different way of looking at things so I must be a troll or a nutjob plant? How very open-minded of you. Because to offer a different viewpoint is to troll. Of course. Everybody should be the same. Nobody should dare to be different.

I have no interest in camoflaging myself as anything. If I did I wouldn't be standing up for viewpoints other people don't agree with and openly showing unusual thinking. Your theory that I'm some sort of plant to make people not bash the prequels is way bizarre. And I think I'm rather less a troll than you. The very first time I took note of you, you were picking a fight with someone and then shortly after you launched a dose of unprovoked abuse at me.

I post sincere opinions which just happen to be at odds with the majority. Terrible crime. Oh I must be faking it, because nobody could EVER genuinely have a different outlook from the majority. Some people are just genuinely scared of anything truly different and don't want to believe people can genuinely be different. It seems you're one of those people. Unfortunately a lot of people are. Hence all the narrow-mindedness and intolerance on this planet. Human beings are herd animals and they really DON'T like difference.

I'M a parody? You, my friend, are a parody of narrow-mindedness.

DarkFather said:

Oh yes, let's celebrate that you have such "constructive, ground-breaking, unique viewpoints" to bring to the table.

Let's also celebrate that you are exactly what I said you are. You were losing patience when you decided to make this thread. Learn patience, come back under another username, and I'm sure you have a shot at becoming an infamous forum celebrity like Go-Mer-Tonic.

Until then, all your hard work was for nothing.

Do you actually believe this crap or are you just trying to be offensive? I couldn't give a fuck if I become "an infamous forum celebrity like Go-Mer-Tonic". I express my opinions. Think of them what you want. As for losing patience, I'm losing patience right now, with your bullshit. Please try to recognize that when you treat people like this for just being different it is in fact YOU who are the troll.

But if you're trying to be offensive you've succeeded, because it really pisses me off when people make arrogant declarations about me based on not knowing me. Stop your stupid theories. You clearly haven't a chance in hell of understanding me, so don't waste time trying with whacko theories. And for god's sake stop pretending you know anything about me.

I'm still not sure if you're coming out with this stuff in earnest or if you're just trying to be offensive, but either way it's damn annoying. Which is probably your intention. Go bother somebody else, troll. 

Oh and btw, whether you think a viewpoint is constructive or not is not the measure of whether it's different. It does seem my viewpoints are pretty unique here, because everybody lines up to disagree with them. It is clear that I have a distinctly different way of looking at things than a lot of people here. It's kind of ludicrous for you to try to deny that, after you've already given me trouble for it. 

And for the record, I posted this thread so we could have a bit of fun with Lucas's mess up. But people seem to be more interested in poking fun at the different guy.

DarkFather said:

I must've hit it pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, huh, kid?

Put me on ignore if you're too narrow to accept my different views, Vaderisnothayden.

Getting somebody really pissed off is not necessarily a sign that you hit close to the mark. In this case, the degree of unjust accusation nonsense is what's getting me so annoyed. Unjust accusations have been known to annoy people, you know.

And not wanting to receive abusive crap and wild insults is hardly narrow-minded. If you want to try to throw my own words back at me like that,  please do it right. 

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Great. I find a cool way in which the prequels screwed up and then you guys want to defend the bloody prequels. Sometimes I just don't get people.

I fcuking hate the prequels - but you're nitpicking to the extreme, it's ridiculous.

 

Only to people who don't find the difference between the two actors obvious and jarring. Picking on the Fett actor difference is hardly going out of my way -it bothered me every time the kid was onscreen. Just because it would be going out of your way for guys to pick on it doesn't mean it is for me. It's not a small thing to me. Your way of looking at things is not the only way. We're not all the same. So maybe you lot should stop judging my views by how YOU think. For me it's not nitpicking to the extreme, for me it's pointing out something that bugged the shit out of me.

Funny how what's acceptable criticism of the prequels is judged by your mindset, as if it was the only mindset in existence.

I sort of seem to be caught in the position of giving out to everybody, but you guys are really making this uncomfortable for me. You people really need to open your minds to the idea that somebody could be coming to this from a very different way of looking at it. Maybe it would be ridiculous for YOU to pick on the difference between the two guys, but it's no so ridiculous for somebody very aware of facial differences to notice it and pick on it.

This whole thread is totally ridiculous. LOL!

Seconded. 

we should find something similiar to this topic and bitch about that! at least this topic would be laid to rest. LOL! btw c3px, i

see u as a very respectful person and i don't believe looking up the word in the dictionary is something u need to do. soooo,

are we done with this topic yet?

I started reading this post and quickly said to myself, "oh brother!"

Gaffer Tape said:

Alright, alright, alright.  This is getting nauseating!  I initially abstained from posting in this thread because I, like apparently everyone else, thought Vaderisnothayden was reaching quite a bit for a reason to take the mickey out of the prequels.  But apparently he does seriously carry this opinion.  And it is his right to do so.  It would be fun to debate, but I don't see anybody bringing anything to the table but, "You're crazy," and other such things, and I really don't see any point to just bitch him out about it.  He has this opinion.  We know this.  Most everyone else disagrees.  He knows this.  What is the point of continuing?  His opinion is valid.  Everyone else's opinion is valid.  The end.

Thank you.

C3PX said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

DarkFather said:Vaderisnothayden, there is no dishonor in throwing your hands up and admitting you are wrong, when you are plain as day: dead wrong. Just ask C3PX.

Why do you assume I'm wrong? Because you're less good with faces than me and can't see that those two guys actually have quite different faces? Most people are hopeless with faces. I'm not. I know what I'm talking about.

 

That is kind of  funny argument. Essentially what you are saying is that nobody else here has a right to an opinion (or at least their opinions have to be wrong) on this because, we are all clearly horrible with faces, and you are a self proclaimed face expert.

Using the same sort of argument, I could do as followes:

Why do you assume you're right? Because you are less intelligent than me and can't see that I am right and you are wrong? Most people are hopeless with their intellect. I'm not. I know what I am talking about.

Blah. I'd flame my own self if I went around making assinine claims like that.

 

Whether you think you are brilliant with faces or not, it doesn't matter. To some of us, they look strikingly alike. To the people who did the casting, they must have looked strikingly alike. It is good enough for most of us. For you it is a disaster, but that is fine if you feel that way. Some of us don't agree, you'll just have to tollerate our opinions.

Sorry for making fun of you, the whole situation came off as very humerous to me, and it felt good for a few laughs. Meant nothing against you personally. Notice even Dark Father and I disagree sometimes and poke fun at each others opinions, it doesn't mean I don't respect his right to an opinon.

You were right in saying it doesn't seem like I respect your opinion when I made fun of it. I have already made clear how I feel about what your opinion is on this matter, which proves I have no respect for that exact opinion. I guess what I meant when I said that I respect your opinion is that I respect you and your right to have an opinion, I don't think any less of you for your opinion, but I still think your opinion (being the idea that they look so different we ought to assume George left out parts of the story explaining some conspiracy) is rather silly. Make sense?

Let's say I believed Hitler could read the minds of dogs and communicate with them, and present you with some loose evidence that makes me draw this opinion, and I go on to tell you that it was actually a cockerspaniel name Lucy who was responsible for the atrocities of WWII that are credited to Hitler. You see, Lucy was the mastermind behind it all, and she hated the Jews, and wanted to conquer the world. Hitler was actually a decent fellow, but was manipulated and fooled by Lucy into doing the things he did... Shall I go on? I doubt you could have any respect for this opinion, and would find it over the top BS, which it very well is. You could tease me about it, and show disrespect for the whole idea, even teasing me a little about it, and still value me as a friend or aquaintance and respect the fact that I have every right to believe Hitler was a good guy and Lucy was essentially Satan in dog form.

All this to say, I respect you as a valued member of this board, I do very much enjoy having you around, I don't hold anything against you for the Boba Jango theory even though I think it is a stretch, and I am sorry if I offended you here, I will try hard to refrain from making fun of your ideas in the future.

C3PX said:

That is kind of  funny argument. Essentially what you are saying is that nobody else here has a right to an opinion (or at least their opinions have to be wrong) on this because, we are all clearly horrible with faces, and you are a self proclaimed face expert.

Using the same sort of argument, I could do as followes:

Why do you assume you're right? Because you are less intelligent than me and can't see that I am right and you are wrong? Most people are hopeless with their intellect. I'm not. I know what I am talking about.

Blah. I'd flame my own self if I went around making assinine claims like that.

If somebody has expertise in a particular field and they are disagreeing with other people (who do not have expertise in that field) about something in that field, then it follows that they are more likely to be right than the other people. There is nothing asinine about that. People who can't see the distinct difference between those two actors are demonstrating a lack of ability with faces. I don't say that to offend anybody, I just say it because it's the case. I can see very clearly the difference between those two faces.

As for being a "self-proclaimed face expert", it's proclaimed by rather more than just myself. As for most people's lack of ability with faces, that is rather well documented and leads to unfortunate situations like witnesses wrongly identifying an innocent man as a criminal they saw, because they can't tell the difference between the criminal's face and the innocent man's.

You are entitled to have whatever opinion you want, but I do know what I'm talking about here and it is evident here that I am proving able to see something other people are failing to see. I have no problem seeing the ways in which those actors resemble each other, but I can also see the considerable and significant ways in which they differ, ways which which make their faces fundamentally different.

Whether you think you are brilliant with faces or not, it doesn't matter. To some of us, they look strikingly alike. To the people who did the casting, they must have looked strikingly alike. It is good enough for most of us. For you it is a disaster, but that is fine if you feel that way. Some of us don't agree, you'll just have to tollerate our opinions.

I've tolerated your opinions well enough. What I haven't tolerated so well is the hostile treatment I've got on this thread and the assumption some people seem to have that because they can't see the difference between those two guys then it mustn't exist and that there's zero chance that I could be right and that I should just acknowledge that they're right, my own trained perceptions being worthless and irrelevant.

Sorry for making fun of you, the whole situation came off as very humerous to me, and it felt good for a few laughs. Meant nothing against you personally. Notice even Dark Father and I disagree sometimes and poke fun at each others opinions, it doesn't mean I don't respect his right to an opinon.

You were right in saying it doesn't seem like I respect your opinion when I made fun of it. I have already made clear how I feel about what your opinion is on this matter, which proves I have no respect for that exact opinion. I guess what I meant when I said that I respect your opinion is that I respect you and your right to have an opinion, I don't think any less of you for your opinion, but I still think your opinion (being the idea that they look so different we ought to assume George left out parts of the story explaining some conspiracy) is rather silly. Make sense?

Except that is not and has never been my opinion. I indicated in my first post that I knew full well that the intention in the filmmaking was for the kid to be a clone of Jango. I never implied that I actually thought George intended him to not be a clone or that there actually were story parts left out explaining it all. I suggested possible story explanations as a way of creatively reinterpreting the film to fix up the mess left by Lucas's failed attempt to make the clone thing work onscreen. I never suggested that Lucas ever thought up any of that stuff. I never suggested that Lucas ever intended the story to be other than the offical AOTC story with Boba as clone of Jango. (Unless you count back in the 80s and 70s when Lucas had maybe not yet dreamed up that Boba was a clone of this Jango guy.) So it seems like you've been misunderstanding my opinion the whole time.

The core of my opinion is that these guys are way too different for it to be ok to put them on the screen side by side and expect us to buy the kid as a clone of the other guy. Pushing the kid as a clone of Jango just fails. And having noted the failure I then went on to play with creative reinterpretations of the film to give in-story explanations for things being the way they were without the kid being a clone. Not because I thought there was any actual missing story like that, but because I thought it was fun to see if the film could work with the kid not being a clone.

Let's say I believed Hitler could read the minds of dogs and communicate with them, and present you with some loose evidence that makes me draw this opinion, and I go on to tell you that it was actually a cockerspaniel name Lucy who was responsible for the atrocities of WWII that are credited to Hitler. You see, Lucy was the mastermind behind it all, and she hated the Jews, and wanted to conquer the world. Hitler was actually a decent fellow, but was manipulated and fooled by Lucy into doing the things he did... Shall I go on? I doubt you could have any respect for this opinion, and would find it over the top BS, which it very well is. You could tease me about it, and show disrespect for the whole idea, even teasing me a little about it, and still value me as a friend or aquaintance and respect the fact that I have every right to believe Hitler was a good guy and Lucy was essentially Satan in dog form.

Well, my opinion was not that sort of ridiculous opinion. And what you said to me struck me as more adversarial than mere friendly teasing. But I accept that you did not intend that. 

All this to say, I respect you as a valued member of this board, I do very much enjoy having you around, I don't hold anything against you for the Boba Jango theory even though I think it is a stretch, and I am sorry if I offended you here, I will try hard to refrain from making fun of your ideas in the future.

I appreciate that. :)

sunday256 said:

This whole thread is totally ridiculous. LOL!

DarkFather's theories that I'm an undercover agent for the prequel fans being the most ridiculous thing here.

DarkFather said:

Your first post in this thread wins as most ridiculous thing here. Bar none.

And why is that exactly? Come on, explain it to me, because I don't see what's so ridiculous about it.

You must be new to the fan community, or you'd know that sort of thing isn't exactly unheard of. With militant PT gushers, you're scraping the very bottom of the weird barrel. They'll do all sorts of things to give the PT a better name.

I don't care whether it's unheard of or not. It's ridiculous in the extreme to accuse me of that.

If I'm wrong about you specifically, and accusing an innocent person, I do apologize. However, you remain on my suspect list.

That bit about the suspect list makes you sound like you think you're a cop. It's pretty funny.

Vaderisnothayden, I think people really don't mind that you think otherwise. Different points of view are always welcome. But if a lot of folks seems "angry" about your posts, well, it must be for something... I think it is the way you answer. You don't discuss, you usualy just tell your arguments (most of them starting by "No,...) . That is only half of a discussion.

If people start debating with me it's only reasonable for me to debate back. I don't think it necessarily follows that if some people seem to dislike my posts then they must have a good reason. People can dislike things for bad reasons too. If you look at this thread, I got mocked before I did any debating with anybody. I'm not so sure that absolutely everybody is happy with me looking at things differently. Difference bothers people. That is well documented. I don't mean any offense to anybody by saying that (or anything else I say in this post), but I do seem to get an awful lot of trouble for disagreeing with the majority.

Thank you for your thoughts, though. I understand you're trying to help. But it would perhaps be more comfortable if you took that sort of thing to PM.

(And I know I just did what you say I do, I debated with you, but I kind of had to, because what you said was unintentionally accusatory. I had to defend how I post. But I understand you were trying to help and I appreciate your insight. However, like I said, I would appreciate if such stuff was done by PM in the future.)

Vaderisnothayden said:

If people start debating with me it's only reasonable for me to debate back. I don't think it necessarily follows that if some people seem to dislike my posts then they must have a good reason. People can dislike things for bad reasons too. If you look at this thread, I got mocked before I did any debating with anybody. I'm not so sure that absolutely everybody is happy with me looking at things differently. Difference bothers people. That is well documented. I don't mean any offense to anybody by saying that (or anything else I say in this post), but I do seem to get an awful lot of trouble for disagreeing with the majority.

Thank you for your thoughts, though. I understand you're trying to help. But it would perhaps be more comfortable if you took that sort of thing to PM.

(And I know I just did what you say I do, I debated with you, but I kind of had to, because what you said was unintentionally accusatory. I had to defend how I post. But I understand you were trying to help and I appreciate your insight. However, like I said, I would appreciate if such stuff was done by PM in the future.)

 

 

Yep, fair enough.

Vaderisnothayden said:

If people start debating with me it's only reasonable for me to debate back. I don't think it necessarily follows that if some people seem to dislike my posts then they must have a good reason. People can dislike things for bad reasons too.   

 While I still think your original post borders on the silly, (which is of course your right as a sentient being to have an opinion) I apologize for saying I thought you were a parodist. I didn't mean to stir up any bad feelings on this thread.

TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

If people start debating with me it's only reasonable for me to debate back. I don't think it necessarily follows that if some people seem to dislike my posts then they must have a good reason. People can dislike things for bad reasons too.   

 

 While I still think your original post borders on the silly, (which is of course your right as a sentient being to have an opinion) I apologize for saying I thought you were a parodist. I didn't mean to stir up any bad feelings on this thread.

Ok. :) You're entitled to think my opinion is silly if you want to.

DarkFather said:

 

That bit about the suspect list makes you sound like you think you're a cop. It's pretty funny.

 

Hey, I half apologized to you jackhole. That's all you're getting from me.

Yeah, but you also grandly declared I was on your suspect list, which wasn't too friendly and sounded pretty funny. Also, you haven't explained why you think my original post was so ridiculous.