SAVE LANDO!!!! — Page 4

Kill Jar Jar. Dont kill Lando!!

Dangerous Incorporated said:

Kill Jar Jar. Dont kill Lando!!

That was the best!

-Angel

adywan said:

god this is just getting out of control now. I seriously think i need a break from all this crap for a long time.

 Hey man, sorry. This was like a half serious half joke thread... I almost called it "Save the clocktower er, I mean Lando". I wont make any more requests of you. May the Force be with you.

Just caught this thread, and I'm curious as to how Lando has anything to do with the EU? Also Killing off Lando in ROTJ doesn't make any sense and just wouldn't play out very well. If Ady intends to kill off lando at the end of ROTJ as originally scripted during their death star escape, he's going to have a very hard time doing it. The music cues when lando and company are escaping destruction from within the death star are too upbeat. Alterting the music wont fit the visuals for his death edit, and adding new FX and to force the concept wont work visually either.  I mean really, you got he flames chasing lando and the music is getting intense. The flames engulf the falcon and you think oh know, they might not survive, the music ultimately puts your worst fears to rest as lado blasts out of the flames and escapes the mega explosion.

In short, it would be very hard killing lando off and making it work. He would have to take lando totally out of ROTJ to make it work and then that would be extremely hard to do.

AuggieBenDoggie said:

In short, it would be very hard killing lando off and making it work. He would have to take lando totally out of ROTJ to make it work and then that would be extremely hard to do.

 Just rotscope Lando out of any scene he is in. Leave in the scenes where Lando is talking to Han. That way Han could be seen as having gone insane from being in Carbonite. Have Lando fall into the Sarlacc pit and Han snaps trying to "rescue" his buddy.

Kill Leia during the speeder bike chase. During the "real mother scene" Luke looses it as well starting to talk to the Leia that isnt there. Both Luke and Han could be seen "talking" to no one.

Have the Ewok trap be spikes that kill Chewie

Wedge blows up the Death Star, the blast anihilates the rebel fleet and the debris decimates Endor

No fortune-cookie, main street electrical parade, after school special, happy happy joy joy ending there.

adywan said:

I always had an idea almost straight after seeing ROTJ in 1983 that Lando should have died. i had even planned it and wrote it down and i still have the outline i wrote. it took away the rehash of ANH feeling i had away from it. One thing i couldn't understand is why the hell would the emperor not protect the main core from torpedoes after what happened to the original DS? That just didn't make sense and still doesn't. My original outline was what if they reached the core and the torpedoes had no impact at all on the shielding. what do they do? the only ship large enough to do any sort of damage was the falcon. i had planned to have lando ram the core as he screams "yeeehaa" and it is wedges X-wing that you see just escaping the death star just before it explodes. But bloody independence day went and did it. i still love that idea but can i still do it now that film came out? i don't know. i may have to find an alternative ending somehow. now after the SE came out and the PT there was an extra part i wanted to see after the DS explodes which ties in all the celebrations around the galaxy. that, i am keeping secret for now.

I love it, I was still in the womb and Ady was planning a fan edit.  I love the idea of Lando's "yeeehaaa" being a "yeeehaaa" of sacrifice.  You have to keep the "yeeehaa"!

I love saying it.  "YEEEHAAA!!!!"

JasonN said:

I love how anytime an editor suggests an edit/cut in the attempt of make a SW film better or improving it, the purists automatically balk and say that the edit will be no good, even though the fanedit in question is years away from completion and they have no idea how it'll all turn out.

From a narrative standpoint, Return of the Jedi is terribly written with poorer characterization, editing, and direction than the two films that preceeded it. If an editor is to salvage the movie and improve its story, drastic changes and cuts may be necessary.
- For Adywan, that may mean killing off Lando or Leia or R2-D2 or whoever else (although where is his posts does he say that exactly? Seriously, I can't find it anywhere in his thread).
- For my planned RotJ edit, that means cutting the "Leia is Luke's twin" and "Han/Leia romance" subplots and trying to edit a new ending that reflects some of the more "bitter" aspects of the original drafts of Jedi (although I am still looking into how feasible a new ending would be, as it would require far more editing/compositing than I've done on the Prequels) 

 

AxiaEuxine, I believe I gave you this advice when you made your "list" on my Prequel thread, but if you don't like the changes that a faneditor makes, you're obviously NOT going to like the resulting fanedit. If you truly want to see a specific change or cut, there is nothing stopping you from making your own edit of the movie.

For one thing (in that Gary Kurtz interview on FILM THREAT with Chris Gore), he not only mentioned Vader continuing his plot to kill the Emperor and replace him with himself and Luke - but not to continue the Empire but to build a new Republic (to make ammends for the past), but that Leia was crowned queen.

Vader could possibly be redubbed (though that would be hard short of taking EMPIRE dialogue) but with some FX skills you could take the end of A NEW HOPE for Leia's coronation, maybe scenes from SOUND OF MUSIC (like Maria's wedding - recolor the dress and some other FX work)...

I say in regards to Lando or Han dying, it would help if maybe we started to plot it out - Ady may have already done this, but it could help him when he gets to JEDI:R all the same.

Just watch RETURNING TO JEDI; you actually have Harrison Ford doing a commentary during both the Sarlaac pit scene and the end battle at Endor saying that Lando was supposed to die at either location (no doubt the Sarlaac death was an earlier draft).

One thing that always bugged me even as a kid (after the 10th time watching JEDI naturally, when you get over the WOW! effect and start to really watch the movie) was: how is it that the reactor just exploded and it takes the Death Star like 10 minutes to actually explode?  As soon as that thing crashed and exploded behind the Falcon - BLAM!  WHITE LIGHT!  OUTSIDE SHOT OF DS EXPLODING!

You never had a 10 minute build-up (with the Death Star explosion) in ANH (remember the time factor was the torpedo travelling down the shaft to reach the reactor - once it hit, the whole thing blew up), so what they did in JEDI just seemed like these characters just CAN'T be killed no matter what happens - not even PHYSICS can kill them!  So on top of the teddy bears, the constant "FREEZE, Rebel scum!... Wait a minute, the rebels aren't telling US to freeze... they just SHOOT us!" moments and everything else, how can we possibly take this seriously, regardless of Lando dying or not?

Ady:
I think that has to be a factor when editing JEDI:R; when the reactor blows, the DS IMMEDIATELY explodes... no secondary explosions, no flame coming out the hangerbays (maybe alarms being that they are under attack) - thus regardless of HOW Lando blows up the reactor, he would know that to go inside and destroy it from the inside that he SHOULDN'T have had the time to escape.

This would be the tough part: maybe with some "cantina-izing" to help Lando express what he knows is a suicide mission, as well as change the music to a degree to reflect the desperate nature of the Rebel's battle it would help to sell the death of Lando.

Some other ideas as to improving the serious tone: yes, Leia is hit, but maybe Han needs to get wounded as well - not straight out KILLED, but show most if not all of the main characters in a weak or wounded situation to push the belief that maybe they could ALL die.

I like someone elses idea of Han saying "I love you" to Leia like he expected to die and Chewie in the AT-ST blows up the 2 troopers and saves them - maybe instead of having the 2 troopers run up and say "Freeze!", maybe you could edit it so more laser shots start hitting around them after Leia is hit; thus, when Leia pulls out her gun, it is not in reaction to the 2 troopers so much as Leia saying (without words) that she intends to make her last stand; Han says his line, the 2 troopers run up and as they are aiming BLAM!  they get destroyed; Han and Leia turn and look up to see the AT-ST hovering above them...

OK, check it out.  Re-edit the Conference Room.  Ackbar already never says that the fighters attempt to leave after attempting to knock out the main reactor.  "General Calrissian has volunteered to lead the attack".  Have Lando look not so cocky (or leave it, he's awesome).  Cut straight to Ackbar handing off the briefing to General Madine, cutting out Han's "Good luck.  You're gonna need it."

I'm not sure how to re-edit the "I want you to take her" scene in the hanger bay.  I'd want to keep the "funny feeling", but if he just sent Lando on an obvious suicide mission, he would know he'd never see either of them again.

Having it be a suicide mission makes sense when Lando sends the rest of the fighters to the surface.  Wedge is the problem here.  It's pretty much unanimus to keep him alive.  So how about this:

Insert Wedge's "I'm already on my way out" instead of "Copy, Gold Leader" when Lando sends them to the surface.  Have Wedge's ship leave last so we can keep the shot of him exiting the DS and flying towards the fleet shortly before Lando makes it into the main area (A).  Matte out Wedge's ship for the rest of the sequence, as Lando silently heads towards his doom (B).  From there cut to the Falcon firing (C) and the shot of the thing Lando shoots (D).  Either end with E or F, depending on if you want to keep the shot of the power thing falling.

Death Star explodes.  Lando sacrifices himself.

As for Luke piloting out the shuttle as the hanger explodes behind him?  Screw it.  Leave some doubt that he's alive so Leia's line about knowing he's alive is a revelation, and not her telling the audience what it already knows.  It would also show that Han knows that Lando is dead because it exploded, so now he's concerned about Luke.

So it goes from Vader (sorry, Anakin) dies, Wedge flies out, Lando sacrifices himself, Han worried about Luke.

You know, I thought about that when I first watched the 2004 DVDs (once again, Ady is doing something I figured the DVD would have the guts to do).  It was really exciting because I didn't know if Lando was going to make it.

It would be utterly hilarious if he did that.  That also goes back to my "Choose The Random Ending" option, which I'm still voting for.

Im starting to not mind the lando dying thing as long as it isn't a sad death. is their a way to make it like lando's shots werent good enough to blow up the death star so is forced to charge into it.

EyeShotFirst said:

Im starting to not mind the lando dying thing as long as it isn't a sad death. is their a way to make it like lando's shots werent good enough to blow up the death star so is forced to charge into it.

I don't believe so with the footage given.  Besides, as Ady pointed out, it would be taken as a rip-off of Independence Day at this point, even if he came up with the idea first.

Okay...

They way you handle the hanger scene is this:

Cut out the line "I want you to take her. I mean it...Take her!"

The rest plays well. In the cockpit, when Leia asks, "Hey, are you awake?"

Han replies, "Yeah..."

We look at the Falcon once more and he finishes, "I'm not going to see her again."

The biggest problem is the tone of the actors, if everyone knows its a suicide mission. Everyone is pretty jovial. There aren't any tears welling up. Then you lose the impact of Lando dying being a surprise.

"Adywan" said:

I always had an idea almost straight after seeing ROTJ in 1983 that Lando should have died. i had even planned it and wrote it down and i still have the outline i wrote. it took away the rehash of ANH feeling i had away from it. One thing i couldn't understand is why the hell would the emperor not protect the main core from torpedoes after what happened to the original DS? That just didn't make sense and still doesn't. My original outline was what if they reached the core and the torpedoes had no impact at all on the shielding. what do they do? the only ship large enough to do any sort of damage was the falcon. i had planned to have lando ram the core as he screams "yeeehaa" and it is wedges X-wing that you see just escaping the death star just before it explodes. But bloody independence day went and did it. i still love that idea but can i still do it now that film came out? i don't know. i may have to find an alternative ending somehow. now after the SE came out and the PT there was an extra part i wanted to see after the DS explodes which ties in all the celebrations around the galaxy. that, i am keeping secret for now.

Why the emperor didn't protect the main core from torpedos? He had the shield generator, and the imperial fleet was to keep the rebels trapped while the death star picked off the battle ships one by one. Something that wasn't done in ANH.  In the end, the emperor was over confident, just as Luke told him. He didn't expect/accept the strike team on Endor to be able to destroy the shield generator.

Having Lando commit suicide by chashing into the core screaming yeeehaa is pretty funny.  It would also create a few problems with Lukes escape, as he wouldn't be able to escape. He wouldn't be able to see his fathers face before he dies. He would also die almost as instantly as Lando would if the death star exploded as fast as the first one did. The rebel fleet might not get the chance to get far enough away either. I think the all ready established ending works best, and has worked for me ever since I first watched it.

My only problem is seeing a ship I thought nearly invincible just blow up. Lando dying really works make the cute kid movie tone into a movie as dark as empire. Sadly i dont really feel that anyone is in danger when watching the film. I barley pay attention to lando's role in the film. Killing him will show that the rebels are more heroic because they will fight and even die for their cause. I thought Empire Strikes Back was a dark film yet if you count the number of times a rebel dies you get none excluding the battle of hoth. It seems like the imperials have the fatality count in the saga. Killing lando is the only way to seal the movie. My problem is what can we do to go from sad to happy at the end. How do we undo the celebration. Could we just end it EPIPHANY EPIPHANY LIGHTBULB TIME. We could have the rebels blast off of the planet endor and end it like that. Of course I would prefer seeing the falcon fly off into the distance. That is why I hate ROTJ no Han Solo manuvering in that beautiful ship. Blasting around star destroyers. If only Rick Mccallum would have had a role in the making of Jedi. Having boba fett getting revenge. Having all this darkness in it. NO EWOKS. sorry ladies and children Ewoks are gay. Of course I am just bitching

oh shit. I mixed em up sorry i meant gary kurtz

Bingowings said:

AuggieBenDoggie said:

Why the emperor didn't protect the main core from torpedos? He had the shield generator, and the imperial fleet was to keep the rebels trapped while the death star picked off the battle ships one by one. Something that wasn't done in ANH.  In the end, the emperor was over confident, just as Luke told him. He didn't expect/accept the strike team on Endor to be able to destroy the shield generator.

Having Lando commit suicide by chashing into the core screaming yeeehaa is pretty funny.  It would also create a few problems with Lukes escape, as he wouldn't be able to escape. He wouldn't be able to see his fathers face before he dies. He would also die almost as instantly as Lando would if the death star exploded as fast as the first one did. The rebel fleet might not get the chance to get far enough away either. I think the all ready established ending works best, and has worked for me ever since I first watched it.

The problem of Luke's escape would be solved by the two Death Star scenerio (see the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread for details), in short Luke is on another Death Star which is destroyed by the Executor.

Without it the problem could be solved by altering the timing, the station could be shaken by bombardment from Rebel capital ships once the shield is down and he could be escape just as the station is about to explode (like Wedge).

Well,  for one thing it DOES kinda look like there is a shield on the reactor (not that it does much); my solution was just through editing:

(1) It is the Emperor himself that destroys the reactor shield ala Jeff Bridges jumping into the MCP shaft in TRON; you could have it take awhile to account for:
(2) Luke and Vader do their thing in the hanger BEFORE Lando gets to the reactor; that way they leave the shuttle bay and the explosions are erased.
(3) Lando does his thing (either blows up the reactor or rams it, which I don't care if it rips on ID4 it could still be cool) and the Death Star blows up when the reactor blows up, as it should.

Another way to edit it is:
(1) Lando fires at the reactor and the shots can't penetrate the shield around it.
(2) Vader throws the Emperor over the edge.  He plummets; add in an altered scene from TRON described above (to show the Emperor falling into the reactor and shorting out the reactor shield)
(3) Lando sees the shield go down and takes his shot.
(4) you would probably have to cut out the shot of the reactor falling over in the background, but you could show it damaged and in the process of overloading, thus
(5) Luke escapes with Vader, as Lando makes his way back out
(6) you could cut out the scenes with Vader in the hanger, but use some FX work so the conversation is done on the surface of Endor.  That may allow for a quicker pace for the simultaneous escapes where Luke makes it and Lando doesn't.  Luke does have the Force on his side, so I could see him using the Force to shield the shuttle.
(7) use some of the shuttle landing on the platform, but replace the platform with an open field.  Show Luke carrying Vader's body, where he rests him on the ground and begin the conversation that was in the hanger bay.  You would have to change the background behind Luke and put some dirt and grass behind Anakin, but it could be done.

I would stay away from the 2 Death Star thing; that would be a little too over the top.

I'm all for Adywan killing Lando. Go Adywan I'm behind you all the way!