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SAVE LANDO!!!! — Page 2

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InfoDroid said:
When it comes down to it, he said he was sorry, but never really paid any consequences for his betrayal.  Instead he was promoted to "General" and given command of a crucial assault on the Death Star. 

 

Speaking of which, am I the only one who thought it was incredibly stupid and just plain "Huh?!" that Han was made into a General just after he was unfrozen?
-_-

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Maybe Boss Nass was at the Rebel base that day, filling in for the guy who usually doles out the medal ceremonies.  "Weesa make you bombad Generals..."

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Bingowings said:

I don't know how it could be done but an alternate take could be to kill Han in the Endor battle (so he never see's the Falcon again) and have Lando live and marry Leia (many, many years later).

That would make Harrison Ford happy, keep the cries of "You killed the only black character" at bay and what's more move him from the B list to the A list characters.

Killing Lando is more doable though.

I'm all for reshuffling the deck with Jedi, after the great build up of the first two films it was a let down and set up the even greater let down to come.

Lando getting together with Leia now that Han is dead? I like it.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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InfoDroid said:

If anyone's gonna die, it HAS to be Lando.  Self-sacrifice is the only way he can fully redeem himself for selling out his friends in Empire.  When it comes down to it, he said he was sorry, but never really paid any consequences for his betrayal. 

 

Giving up everything he had, posing as a guard at Jaba's nasty palace, and risking his life for his pals and the cause of galactic freedom doesn't count as a way to 'redeem' himself for sacrificing one man in an attempt to save an entire city?

I disagree.

 

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JasonN said:

Speaking of which, am I the only one who thought it was incredibly stupid and just plain "Huh?!" that Han was made into a General just after he was unfrozen?
-_-

 

 He was already a commander when he was frozen. Besides, how many officers were volunteering to pilot a crummy ship under Darth Vader's nose.

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Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only way to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip. 

What he did was baaaadddd.... 

If more emphasis was placed on Lando leading and orchestrating the rescue to try to right his wrong, maybe it could be justified.  But in the movie more emphasis was placed on Luke's part in that.  In my opinion, Lando didn't do enough on screen to balance out his misdeeds.  And of course self-sacrifice is the ultimate expression of selflessness.

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InfoDroid said:

Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip. 

What he did was baaaadddd.... 

If more emphasis was placed on Lando leading and orchestrating the rescue to try to right his wrong, maybe it could be justified.  But in the movie more emphasis was placed on Luke's part in that.  In my opinion, Lando didn't do enough on screen to balance out his misdeeds.  And of course self-sacrifice is the ultimate expression of selflessness.

I agree that he should sacrifice himself, but how?  I mean, if he doesn't make it out of the Death Star in time, that's not really selflessness, it's bad luck.  Even having the Falcon's missiles jam and Lando ramming the Falcon into the power generator (like Independence Day, heaven forbid) would (a) be pretty much impossible to get across without extra dialog and (b) look more like a fault of the Falcon, since she counts as a character.

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TheBoost said:
JasonN said:

Speaking of which, am I the only one who thought it was incredibly stupid and just plain "Huh?!" that Han was made into a General just after he was unfrozen?
-_-

 

 He was already a commander when he was frozen. Besides, how many officers were volunteering to pilot a crummy ship under Darth Vader's nose.

 

Last time I checked, a Commander is NOT a General. Also, why does he need to be promoted to one of the highest ranks in the Rebellion just to lead the mission to Endor?

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Incentive.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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I love ANH:R and I have loved everything I have seen with ESB:R. To me Adywan has not let me down yet and if he wants to change the story at the end of ROTJ:R I say let the man work. Like other people have said, it is his edit and if you don't like it in the end, re-edit it yourself. I for one am very interested to see this version and I always have thought someone major on the good side had to die. ROTJ is too happy compared to the first two films and it shouldn't be. The EU doesn't exist to me, as I have always just viewed the films as Star Wars and thats it. Go on with your edit Adywan for I will consider that Star Wars. :)

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doubleofive said:

I agree that he should sacrifice himself, but how?  I mean, if he doesn't make it out of the Death Star in time, that's not really selflessness, it's bad luck.  Even having the Falcon's missiles jam and Lando ramming the Falcon into the power generator (like Independence Day, heaven forbid) would (a) be pretty much impossible to get across without extra dialog and (b) look more like a fault of the Falcon, since she counts as a character.

Hahaha!  Give him a Randy Quaid moment...

"All right you Imperial a**holes!  Up YOOOOUUUUUUURRRSSSS!"

If I had the special effects know-how, I'd save Lando's "Here goes nothing" for the end and have him plow that Falcon right into the main reactor at the last possible moment after everything else had failed.

 

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I don't think Lando had anything to redeem himself for but I think he would think that.

He had the fate of everyone in Cloud City resting on his shoulders and while he personally would have loved to have given Vader the bird and warned Han off he had responsibilities.

If anyone needed to atone for what went on there it's Leia.

Leia who was a leader herself put her emotional attachment to Han before her head.

She knew what the Empire and Vader were capable of more than anyone else (she was personally tortured by Vader and the Empire destroyed her homeworld while she watched on helplessly) but she had too much of her father in her (ergo the choking Lando by proxy scene).

It's interesting that she also chokes Jabba to death too (imagine this gal with Jedi powers).

If Ady's skills grow with each project and he joined forces with some of the other skilled people on here I could see a group who could actually make Episodes VII through to IX becoming a real possibility.

In which case having Leia turn to the dark side is something I could see happening, going by what we have already seen of her.

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The next trilogy would have to be animated. I highly suggest if that were a goal in the future, that Adywan team up with experienced animators (not just those learning in college).

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Bingowings said:

She knew what the Empire and Vader were capable of more than anyone else (she was personally tortured by Vader and the Empire destroyed her homeworld while she watched on helplessly) but she had too much of her father in her (ergo the choking Lando by proxy scene).

It's interesting that she also chokes Jabba to death too (imagine this gal with Jedi powers).

 

 That IS interesting.  I never really noticed that connection before.

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InfoDroid said:

Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only way to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip. 

What he did was baaaadddd.... 

Thats where we have to disagree. I think Lando's mistake was trusting the Empire. He was forced to weigh the wellbeing of Cloud City against one man's life (Luke's. If you recall, giving Han to the bounty hunter was never part of the bargain).  You can see why he felt he 'had no choice.'

When he sees the Empire isn't playing square, he sacrifices everything he has and risks his life to try to make up for that one mistake.

I don't think he was selfish at all, and I disagree he has anything further to atone for.

 

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TheBoost said:
InfoDroid said:

Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only way to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip.

What he did was baaaadddd....

Thats where we have to disagree. I think Lando's mistake was trusting the Empire. He was forced to weigh the wellbeing of Cloud City against one man's life (Luke's. If you recall, giving Han to the bounty hunter was never part of the bargain).  You can see why he felt he 'had no choice.'

When he sees the Empire isn't playing square, he sacrifices everything he has and risks his life to try to make up for that one mistake.

I don't think he was selfish at all, and I disagree he has anything further to atone for.

 

I don't think he trusted the Empire at all, he was just buying time.

By the time Vader had changed his mind three times (myths and jokes almost always use the rule of three strikes) he realised there was no way he or anyone in the city would make it out with anything like the freedom they had enjoyed so he changed plans to immediate evacuation and trying to save Han (something he follows through to the very end).

After that he had even more of a reason for joining the Rebels.

It's a shame Nute Gunray wasn't around to teach him the dangers of making deals with Sith Lords.

 

 

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Lets make Lando as an Emo who packed a bunch of C4 in the millenium falcon, had sex with leia before he suicide saving the galaxy!

 

huhu!

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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I can see your point, Boost.  It's a good defense.  He didn't even know who this Luke Skywalker was, it was just a name...he didn't care anything about him.  And while he considered Han a friend, he still probably didn't trust him completely.  Top it off with the fact he had a reputation for getting into trouble, like with Jabba for instance.  It's like, "What has Han gone and gotten himself into now?"  Sometimes, friends like that you have to let fight their own battles or they'll take you down along with them.

And I have to admit, he did get choked pretty good by Chewie.  But, I think BingoWings is also right when he says Lando probably felt a huge sense of personal responsibility when he saw how it all turned out. 

So, that was a good anaylsis. 

Seriously though, while I do think a Lando death would give ROTJ's ending more impact and if you take the psychology of the character into account, it would be justified to let him commit self-sacrifice to save his friends...I guess I'm forced to conclude based on the evidence that his guilt is called into question.  What he did was a bad thing, knowing what we know...but, it's reasonable to assume he didn't realize what he was getting into at the time.  If I was a jury member, you probably would have swayed me, Boost.  :)  You're like Lando's Johnny Cochran!  LOL!  "If the glove don't fit...you must acquit."

SAVE LANDO!  :-D  LOL!

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Lando sacrificing himself, I believe, would be superfluous. As Bingowings already mentioned, his redemption was putting himself on the line for months in order to save Han from Jabba. He was hanging around as a mole waiting to sabotage in one of the murkiest locations in the galaxy.

Only Han dying in the carbonite, which he obviously survived, would warrant Lando sacrificing himself at the Battle of Endor. I doubt Lando has much guilt left in his mind now that Han is rescued in no small part thanks to him.

That's why I vote that if we are going to have any of the heroes die in the final clash between Rebellion and Empire, it is better to have it be Han. To have rescued the rogue-turned-hero only to have him die soon afterward would add an extra sense of tragedy to the death.

In essence, they would have undertook a long, dangerous rescue mission just to have a few more precious days with their dear friend.

It's poetic.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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No no no you can't kill Lando! Aside from him not having anything to atone for (which has already been explained well enough)... if he dies... you don't get to hear him go "YEEEHAW!"

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If you are gonna kill someone. go by the infinities approach and kill luke. I wouldnt mind seeing leia die. of course How in the fuck is it even possible to kill someone off of their importance. It will be a bitch and I garuntee that it will be even more of a bitch to blow up the 2nd death star without lando.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

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EyeShotFirst said:

If you are gonna kill someone. go by the infinities approach and kill luke. I wouldnt mind seeing leia die. of course How in the fuck is it even possible to kill someone off of their importance. It will be a bitch and I garuntee that it will be even more of a bitch to blow up the 2nd death star without lando.

I'm pretty sure Ady means to have him die escaping the Death Star.  There are no more scenes with Lando (except for him laughing and clapping in the background of the celebration scenes) and his role in the story would be done by that point.

As for those who would rather Han die: when, where, how?  I'm interested to hear your ideas.

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I'm for Lando dying not because he has to redeem himself (though he is the sort of guy who thinks he might) but to prove that sometimes fighting for a good cause comes at a price and victory over evil is it's own reward.

Han could serve the same role but it would be almost impossible to find a way to do it without finding someone who looked just like Harrison Ford circa 1982ish and putting him in a forest.

Lando can die just by adding an explosion at the beginning of a bigger explosion and trimming him out of the rest of the film.

Lando goes from being an also ran character to the biggest hero of the final film so in terms of racial politics (for those who care about such things) he moves up several notches by laying down his life not just for his friends but for the entire galaxy.

It also plants the suggestion that the self proclaimed cynical Solo is actually more atuned to the Force than he thought he was in ANH.

His funny feeling is justified and Lando lives on as an heroic example to all scoundrels.

"Rejoice for those around you who transform into The Force. Mourn them, do not..."

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Han could be killed when the charges blow at the bunker.  He could be swept up in the explosion that seems to level several city blocks.