ChainsawAsh said:I'm all for cutting Ben's conversation out entirely. I do, however, think Luke needs to be on Dagobah before he's on Tatooine - we need to feel like he's been training there for a long period of time since "Empire" ended. As it is, it feels like he got a couple weeks of training, left like an idiot, then decided he was a Jedi before even seeing Yoda again. It just doesn't feel like he's had enough time to become a Jedi.
And I don't have a problem with introducing Jabba on the Lapti Nek (which SHOULD be replaced with something!)/Boussh sequence. It works well as an introduction in my opinion, and sets a much more sinister tone for the film and for Jabba's lair.
I have to completely disagree here (not to get the whole 20 response "back-and-forth" going like the last couple of pages), and here's why:
(1) when Luke enters Jabba's palace, he is wearing the black cloak and uniform. At first you don't know who it is, but you have a good idea (especially when said dude is doing the force choke on the guards); it is a great character introduction, but storywise we have no idea how long he has been training - on his own. Remember that Luke had commitments to the rebels, so it would be unnatural to fly off at the end of EMPIRE, train for a year (or even 6 months) while leaving the rebels alone. Training in anything regarding philosophy has a lot more to do with putting that belief into practice than taking tests and passing grades - which is why when Luke goes to Dagobah AFTER Tatooine Yoda says your training is done even though he just got there.
Luke's training was in his entire life experience: his leadership of the rebels; his rescuing of his friends and confrontation of Vader; him finishing his basic training ON HIS OWN, culminating with his rescue of Han from Jabba. The whole entire point of the Tatooine sequence is to show that Luke has confidence in himself and the Force now, which is the main test to learn. His final test was to confront his biggest challenge (converting Vader back to Anakin and defeating the Emperor) on his own without the help or guidance of any mentor.
Editing wise it would open the movie to a pretty slow scene (with or without Ben's sit-down with Luke). I still understand the reasoning, but pace wise I would still open with Tatooine.
I guess a way to look at the OT is:
in A NEW HOPE Luke is a kid (wants more out of life, learns success and reward)
in EMPIRE Luke is a rebellious teenager (needs to be saved right off the bat; fights a losing battle with authority; ignores his "parental figures" to be with/help his friends; is betrayed by his parental figures)
in JEDI Luke becomes an adult (has to deal with responsibility and death on his own; has to become a father to his father, much less deal with the death of his parental figures and bury them)
(2) in regards to the Tatooine edit by Fan-O-Matic, you still need entrances for characters. The problem with opening it right in the middle of the LAPTI-NEK song and dance is ... well, it just feels awkward. Right off the bat, the tentacled chick is dumped into the pit, we see Jabba very non-chalantly and things just start happening. If that's what you want, okay, I can dig it, but to me it feels disjointed and rushed.
Aaaanyways, it will be interesting to hear what Ady has to say about all this when he has the chance...