Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 38

There could be ways to have Vader survive. Edit out some dialogue alluding to his impending death, take out the scene with him leaning back, eyes closing, and going limp. Take out the appearance of his ghost, obviously.

It would make sense that he isn't at the Rebel's celebration. It could be left up to the viewer to decide what is going on behind the scenes: Vader undergoing repairs, possibly preparing to work as an avenger of sorts against the remaining Imperials peppered across the galaxy.

And no, don't bother to come back with some argument about "it would undermine his redemption", bla bla. He would be redeemed, but would also be atoning for his sins with the aforementioned theory.

It may or may not work. I like brainstorming on how seemingly innocuous changes mean so much for the overall story.

Whoever it was that said Palpatine isn't a lunatic but an over confident old man: You're right. You're right in the sense of the ROTJ we have now, but it's worth thinking about the implications of what would change about his character if we had him laughing like a madman while falling instead of yelling. When I posted that idea, I even admitted it would change his character. That's one of the points about the whole idea! I never liked the Emperor as a villain to begin with, but to me, if that change was made, it would make him more interesting to me personally.

Well in some beyond the saga star wars novels and comics. The emperor returns many times. Him Laughing would be like him saying ILL BE BACK AND YOULL BE SORRY. The emperor is a mysterious man with mysterious power. The Saga doesn't give him the credit he deserves. A man that can keep Darth Vader on a close leash should atleast show you dont buck with the emperor. Still he never fully showcased his power. Hes a sith not a jedi the Jedi believe in not showing a vulgar display of their power. I think that we could use a jedi academy map of the emperors throne room Ill post a link. It is pretty extensive and huge. Instead of one main room and an elevator Its like a quad-room. with four rooms the size of the one in return of the jedi. The other 3 are big windows for viewing many aspects of the battle. then their are screens like the one vader used in Empire when he was in his maintenece pod. Maybe for contacting imperial officers. It is a very good map and a very good basis for this ultimate fan edit. And Monroville I love your Ideas. A quad Throne room would make the Emperors throne room more blade runner style. Think about it yall. I could make some sketches for those of you who do not have jedi academy.

EyeShotFirst brings up a great point, which I actually thought about when I thought of the idea.

Viewers will be asking themselves: "Why is the Emperor laughing?! Is it because he's literally insane, or is it because he knows he can return at any hour... or minute?"

It would make worlds of difference in making the Emperor even more menacing. The answer won't be beat over the heads of fans, and the questions themselves will give the impression that the story isn't truly "over." The story in ROTJ unlike before won't be wrapped up with a nice little bow.

And then, of course, fans will write an assload of fanfictions and whatnot to explain what happens later, but as it stands, it will all just be theory. Adywan would probably be the "Lucas" and give his canon thoughts on it. :)

Maybe a way it could work is make the "laugh" something anguished, or a mix between laughter and screaming (as in: he is shocked when Vader picks him up, but he has the same attitude as Obi-Wan did at the end of his duel with Vader: "If you strike me down, I will only become more powerful...") thus, he screams out of fear of death, but revels in the possibility of becoming an energy being ala Obi-Wan.

Of course, his influence would be more like Sauron in the sense that he could only tempt and try to corrupt ala a haunting of a sorts.. or more to the point, like Nicol Williamson's Merlin in the movie EXCALIBUR ("A dream to some... a NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!") after Morgana traps him in the cave.

BTW, here is a possible "Emperor's Crib" idea:



a posssible idea to kind of differentiate the 2 Death Stars is maybe make the second DS a little more angular and not perfectly spherical - to incorporate a more "temple-ish" or ancient world look.  I would place the Emperor's "palace" on the artic (and to balance the DS, one on the antartic) pole of the DS, as a place to overlook "all of creation" so to speak.

Again, keep it subtle; the DS would still be "spherical" more or less, just not "perfectly" round (but nowhere near to the extent of say a "Devo hat")

This may be a good alternative to the BLACK HOLE overhead window in large room idea Bingo Wings had.  You wouldn't have to show it in all shots; in fact, you could do a "pan down" from the large overhead window to the rest of the scene (say in one of the first Throne Room scenes) and play everything "as-is".  Once established, the thought of it would be enough to help "expand" the scope of the Throne Room.

This is interesting but i would like to see Something more like a tower than a Fortress.

Also the idea the tower to be in the DeathStar ring isnt bad at all.(see Force unleashed)

Btw i have a question. In the matter how close should be the space battle as we see it from the Emperor's throne room windows, some state that the battle should be close but not so close because of the deathstar shield.The question well is how we see the tie fighters taking a fly by in the establishing shot of the Tower and not hitting the shield?

-Angel

Bingowings said:

Oh boy! Tru calling on the holophone.

Maybe the Death Star laser hitting the Executor idea could be worked into the Piett Insurrection idea but then again no, the superlaser on full power could take out a planet so even a big capital ship wouldn't stand a chance unless the batteries were low.

 

Well, it wouldn't have to be Piett at the Endor party doing the hand shaking (though I would like it to be if possible, since he is in essence the "Wedge" among Imperial supporting actors). 

Another way to think of the DS beam is like this:
the beam is powerful enough to destroy a planet, which makes it an EXTREMELY powerful energy blast.  If it hit something like a starship (which has nowhere NEAR the mass of a planet), the amount of energy hitting the ship (and destroying it) would be extremely minimal and the rest of the beam would carry through - like shooting a high-powered bullet at someone without armor or better still, a piece of paper - it goes right through them and continues on until gravity or heavier, bulkier obstacles stop it. 

Another way to look at it would be shooting a howitzer shell at a bird: the bird would disintegrate and the shell could conceivably continue on until it hit something far more substantial.  Also, I was thinking of ROBOTECH and some other anime where such beam weapons show a similar "swiping" effect. 

For a more general "big battle" montage to help give some ideas as to how to expand the JEDI finale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8OwY86Pd5c&feature=related

So whether the Executor is "cut in half or into pieces" or you show multiple ships just exploding ala the above Youtube link, either would be great to emphasise the power of the Death Star.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

Oh boy! Tru calling on the holophone.

Maybe the Death Star laser hitting the Executor idea could be worked into the Piett Insurrection idea but then again no, the superlaser on full power could take out a planet so even a big capital ship wouldn't stand a chance unless the batteries were low.

 

Well, it wouldn't have to be Piett at the Endor party doing the hand shaking (though I would like it to be if possible, since he is in essence the "Wedge" among Imperial supporting actors). 

Another way to think of the DS beam is like this:
the beam is powerful enough to destroy a planet, which makes it an EXTREMELY powerful energy blast.  If it hit something like a starship (which has nowhere NEAR the mass of a planet), the amount of energy hitting the ship (and destroying it) would be extremely minimal and the rest of the beam would carry through - like shooting a high-powered bullet at someone without armor or better still, a piece of paper - it goes right through them and continues on until gravity or heavier, bulkier obstacles stop it. 

Another way to look at it would be shooting a howitzer shell at a bird: the bird would disintegrate and the shell could conceivably continue on until it hit something far more substantial.  Also, I was thinking of ROBOTECH and some other anime where such beam weapons show a similar "swiping" effect. 

For a more general "big battle" montage to help give some ideas as to how to expand the JEDI finale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8OwY86Pd5c&feature=related

So whether the Executor is "cut in half or into pieces" or you show multiple ships just exploding ala the above Youtube link, either would be great to emphasise the power of the Death Star.

Leave the jap/anime/manga culture out of Star Wars.

They Ruined transformers,TNMT etc. don't let them to destroy SW too :S

The reference is good tho.

-Angel

vaderios said:

Leave the jap/anime/manga culture out of Star Wars.

They Ruined transformers,TNMT etc. don't let them to destroy SW too :S

The reference is good tho.

 

-Angel

WHAA!?!  The Japanese CREATED Transformers!  It was essentially anime from the get-go.  Besides, am I to believe there is no love for the 1986 Transformers movie?  I know there were a TON of 80's hair-band songs and all, but sheesh!  I'll take Unicron over "Shia and the 'All-Spark'"ANY day of the week!

Besides: how can you not love a beginning like that?  A planet-sized robot eating another planet.. BEFORE the opening credits?!?  In the words of Maximus: "Were you not entertained?"

Besides besides: the ref is to 80's anime like MACROSS and MEGA ZONE 23 (specifically MZ 23: PART 2 - speaking of which: has anyone had nightmares regarding that scene?  If you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about)... of course you have some good serious and/or enjoyable anime in the 90's too (COWBOY BEBOP, OUTLAW STAR, GHOST IN THE SHELL, NINJA SCROLL to name a few).

Also, I'm not saying the lasers should "bend" like the GALL FORCE clips, but to capture that sense of scale and chaos in the battle more or less is what I'm aiming at.

True, but. When marvel took Transformers gave them their sides and character.

Also the voice overs of the American voices are far superior to the Japanese. I cant think Optimus says "Bastard" and "Idiot" to Megatron.

I agree with you about the chaos and comfusio of the space battle, like ROTS, so it will be cool to see Endor space battle to this scale.

How about Unicron Vs Death star? ^^

-Angel

vaderios said:

This is interesting but i would like to see Something more like a tower than a Fortress.

Also the idea the tower to be in the DeathStar ring isnt bad at all.(see Force unleashed)

-Angel

That would be very interesting; if that was the case (the tower/castle/fortress/palace being in the center of the DS laser "dish"), it would alter the perspective of the view - ie, Luke would have to look straight up to see the bulk of the battle, due to the angle of the tower (which would be something between 20° and 45°).

You would also have to:

(1) add the green laser beams outside the Emperor's Throne Room windows (whether we see them converge in a shot where Luke looks up through a ceiling window or we see one or two of the multiple beams outside the side window)

(2) remove the CENTER beam that comes out of the dish - which would kinda cramp Palpatine's plans if he destroyed himself in the first shot...

You know, I think I really dig this idea.  It would place the tower/fortress relatively close to the equatorial hanger bays (for Luke's escape) AND give Palpatine a unique perspective as well as a great place to be protected (dead center in the planet killer dish array).

True, but. When marvel took Transformers gave them their sides and character.

Also the voice overs of the American voices are far superior to the Japanese. I cant think Optimus says "Bastard" and "Idiot" to Megatron.

I agree with you about the chaos and comfusio of the space battle, like ROTS, so it will be cool to see Endor space battle to this scale.

I agree there - I liked how Shockwave (the cooler purple gun robot) was an uber-badass and damn near wiped out all the Autobots by his lonesome.

How about Unicron Vs Death star? ^^

Yikes!  I guess that would depend on if the DS got a shot off before Unicron started munching or pounding away at it.  Either way, I would be greatly entertained!  >:D

How about a contineous beam (see Icarus from Die and other day) that slices some capital rebel ships before overheated and fire up again?

Make more sense that to have a laser that is for planet destruction to hit ships.

-Angel

Why is Adywan replacing Anakin's eyebrows in the unmasking scene? That was one of the few changes that made sense and wasn't obnoxious.

DarkFather said:

Why is Adywan replacing Anakin's eyebrows in the unmasking scene? That was one of the few changes that made sense and wasn't obnoxious.

I dont think he will

vaderios said:

Btw i have a question. In the matter how close should be the space battle as we see it from the Emperor's throne room windows, some state that the battle should be close but not so close because of the deathstar shield.The question well is how we see the tie fighters taking a fly by in the establishing shot of the Tower and not hitting the shield?

 

-Angel

I think it should be a bit closer (not them flying past the windows, obviously), until the shields drop and the ships get bigger and bigger as they head closer to bombard the surface.

doubleofive said:

vaderios said:

Btw i have a question. In the matter how close should be the space battle as we see it from the Emperor's throne room windows, some state that the battle should be close but not so close because of the deathstar shield.The question well is how we see the tie fighters taking a fly by in the establishing shot of the Tower and not hitting the shield?

 

-Angel

I think it should be a bit closer (not them flying past the windows, obviously), until the shields drop and the ships get bigger and bigger as they head closer to bombard the surface.

Yep thats good one. I like how the ships are in ROTS battle during the lightsaber duel.

Not just far but they come under the observation tower. Thats my point for ROTJ:R

Thx :)

-Angel

ben_danger said:

well they could get right close towards the climax in the tower, as all hell is breaking loose anyway.

as oppose to a fighter, why not a burning star destroyer crashing into the surface of the DS (aka force unleashed trailer), maybe as it crashes down, the tower shakes and at allows for luke to charge vader.

bits could then fall from the ceiling, and more sparks would fly. it would parallel ROTS with events happening on geonosis that directly intereact with the duel, like when the shields get disabled on the platforms?

I think you mean Mustafar :P

But all nitpicking aside, that sounds like a cool idea. Certainly not necessary, but would add a bit more worry for Luke's safety as it reminds the viewer that the station he is in is under attack.

Looking at the screencaps, the duel is over by the time the shield is down.  Unless you put big ships behind Vader and the Emperor during the most climatic moment in the saga, we can't have the ships get much closer than they are currently.  Too bad.

Really, the more I look at the shot where you can see the battle, the more it makes sense to leave it the way it is.

At this point, the Rebel fighters are just starting to be attacked by the TIEs, and the SDs aren't doing anything.  Even the angle might be right.  I'm not 100% sure as I'm not that good with the 3 dimension thinking required, but I think it does work the way it is.

Impressive, someone might have actually thought all this through when they made it! ;-)

doubleofive said:

Looking at the screencaps, the duel is over by the time the shield is down.  Unless you put big ships behind Vader and the Emperor during the most climatic moment in the saga, we can't have the ships get much closer than they are currently.  Too bad.

Really, the more I look at the shot where you can see the battle, the more it makes sense to leave it the way it is.

At this point, the Rebel fighters are just starting to be attacked by the TIEs, and the SDs aren't doing anything.  Even the angle might be right.  I'm not 100% sure as I'm not that good with the 3 dimension thinking required, but I think it does work the way it is.

Impressive, someone might have actually thought all this through when they made it! ;-)

The executor should point the death star not been from side.

Either needs executor position or death star position from executor's bridge.

-Angel