The Prequels: I seriously cannot watch Star Wars anymore. — Page 4

TheBoost said:

I think the LucasBashing really stems from how he kind of pisses on the fans with his issues over the real versions of the OT. I know it's his personal philosphy of film, but it's kind of a douche bag philosophy. I think the personal distaste fans have garnered for Lucas over the SE/DVD fiasco has also colored their perceptions of the PT, whereas instead of being flawed films by a filmamker we like, they become a slap in the face by someone with 'no respect for the fans.'

EXACTLY!!! (well some of it) Ohhh I didnt get want I wanted for the OT DVDs. Everything Star wars is crap and none of it is good! I hate you all! :::holds breath and crosses arms until he get what he wants from movies that belong to someone else::::

And give the "cultural signifigance" argument a rest. I would be amazed if any of you actually care about that. You want "your" vision of Star Wars and thats all there is to it. At least be honest. Cultural significance indeed.

To say Lucas had no respect for the fans is utter tripe. Its more accurate to say that Fans have no respect for Lucas.

I really dont know why you all continue to bitch about this. As members of this forum you all know how to get hold of rather nice copies of the Original Trilogy in all its OH my Lord these scenes need to be replaced/updated glory.

And don't get me wrong I just want to share my favoritist thing ever with people who feel the same way. I want to discuss the latest episode of the Clone Wars every week but I dont DARE go there. Oh No No. Its so frustrating

Vaderisnothayden said:

If anybody's not thinking for themselves it's the people who uncriticially swallow whatever crap Lucas puts out without raising objection.

Nooo your just a bitter, jaded, Star Wars...ex-star wars fan. Like I recently said I cant say oh I like this but not that becuase every time I post something you'll all throw that back in my face. And the Prequels ARE good movies FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!

Everything you haters bash the prequels and Lucas for is present in the original trilogy, bad acting, childish plots, gaping plot holes and ridiculous characters. All there in the OT boys and girls. This is why I am so completely mystified by your hatred of the prequels. It makes no sense. Its hypocritical. Not to mention the prequels dont have those now painful to look at model work and matte paintings. Brilliant for thier time but now just a sign of aged and tired movies, like, apparently most of thier fans. The only thing wrong with the SEs was that enough of the shots that needed updated weren't.

I dont want to write inflammatory <sp?> things I want to discuss. But I want to share my favorite thing in the whole world with its fans. So let go of this hatred...for once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. The prequels are every bit as good as the OT. And in some cases better...PT = 100% ewok free

I tried to be nice.  really, I did.  Axia, you DO know I grew up on the SEs right?  I've said it many times before.  I only care about the OUT because I think its wrong to try and replace something like that.  I care that Greedo shoots, but not enough that it ruins the movie for me.  Some it does, not me.  So don't lump us all into the same group of "OMG ITS LUCAS DIE DIE DIE" :).  I really just care becasue of history.

Also, try the edit button.

bkev said:

I tried to be nice.  really, I did.  Axia, you DO know I grew up on the SEs right?  I've said it many times before.  I only care about the OUT because I think its wrong to try and replace something like that.  I care that Greedo shoots, but not enough that it ruins the movie for me.  Some it does, not me.  So don't lump us all into the same group of "OMG ITS LUCAS DIE DIE DIE" :).  I really just care becasue of history.

Also, try the edit button.

 No I didnt know that you grew up on the SEs. Im not in the habit of checking profiles before post.

Ill try not to do group lumping anymore.

As for your Edit button comment...I didnt realize I was submitting a term paper. (I know that sounds bitchey but it bugged me.)

I apologize then for that comment about the edit button, its just that in many communities double posting is frowned upon and thats kinda rubbed off on me.

I loved TPM when I first saw it. I saw it in the theatres 6 times.

I was also ten years old at the time. Now, I can't even sit through the damn thing all the way through. This change of opinion had nothing to do with outside influence and everything to do with me growing up and realizing that the movie I once loved really wasn't all that great. Kind of like how I didn't need anyone else to tell me that Power Rangers is (contrary to what I once believed when I was five) utter shite.

AxiaEuxine said:

And the Prequels ARE good movies FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... haha... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I can't breath... hahahaha... phew... he he he... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Okay, okay, I'm alright, I -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Phew! Okay, first off, Axia, you really seem to do a whole lot posting and very little reading of other's posts. In most threads you seem to be having an entirely different conversation than everyone else is having. Like the person who walks into a room and hears just a few words of a conversation that has been going on for a while, and quickly assumes they know what the conversation is about and immediately shoots their mouth off with a bunch of unrelated nonsense. In real life, a good general rule before joining a pre-existing conversation is to listen for at least five to ten minutes before throwing in your two-cents. To adapt this to the world of forums, I'd say reading the last five to ten posts would be prudent. Or at the very least be sure you have a grasp on the conversation at hand. Seems regardless of what we actually post, you have each and everyone of us pegged as a bunch of hateful jerks out to destroy all that is good and lovely in the world by disliking the PT and the SE.

We get that you like the PT, that is great, you are not alone here. We respect the fact that you like the films, that is great. I myself have said on many occasions that I like The Phantom Menace well enough. By throwing virtual fits everytime someone mentions the prequels sucking, and trying to prove how much worse the OT was than the PT, you are not accomplishing anything but making yourself seem like a typical TF.N fangirl. If all you really want to do is discuss SW with like minded fans, I have to wonder why you are here? You'd fit in quite well there, not to say you are not welcome here, because you certainly are. It is just that, well, if there is anything I find more annoying than complaining, it is complaining about complaining. And here you have me complaining about complaining about complaining, and that really gets me irked :)

Seriously, lighten up. Some people don't like the PT. What are you going to do about?

On a final note, some of us really do care about history and art, and the preservation of them. If you'd really read this forum with an open mind you'd see that. It isn't only SW that we have preserved here, but many other things. Take a look in the preservation section sometime. It saddens me to see someone say that a classic film that has been severely altered, was not altered enough to their liking. You call us "ex-Star Wars fans", sounds to me like you were never one to begin with. I am not full of bullshit, I am not using this as an excuse not to like the PT or the SE for some diabolical reasons.

I care about the OT being preserved just as I care about all great works being preserved. I am sure someone like you may feel that a work like The Odyssey could use some good updating. After all, it is a rather archaic work. Maybe it could use a more modern setting, perhaps it could benefit from some editing, removal of some pointless plotlines, some embellishments and reworkings of some bits to make it less boring. A lot of people could careless about a work like The Odyssey, and feel it has no cultural relevance today. To me and many others it has a lot of cultural relevance. Abridgments and translations of The Odyssey exist, but I still prefer to take the extra effort it takes to read the thing in the original Greek.

It may sound silly to compare SW to The Odyssey, but as much as some people will try to argue that SW is not culturally significant, or that it is hardly a classic, that it was just a passing pop-cultural fad, etc. They have a very poor understanding of "classic" and "culturally significant". The literary critic Northrop Frye put it best when he defined a classic as "a work that refuses to go away". Those seven words absolutely define the OT's success over the past thirty years. It is most certainly a classic, hands down, no question. As for culturally significant? Hell, it would be impossible to count all the times SW has been referenced in other movies and TV shows. A popular modern TV show like LOST, for example, is so packed full of SW references, I have a hard time imagining what it would be like for someone who has never seen the OT. LOST is not the first show, nor will it be the last, to have countless SW references and in jokes scattered throughout its episodes.

If that isn't culturally significant, I don't know what is. SW holds more cultural significance for us today than most of those old classics that have been held in such high regard for so many decades.

AxiaEuxine said:

And the Prequels ARE good movies FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... haha... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I can't breath... hahahaha... phew... he he he... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Okay, okay, I'm alright, I -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

AxiaEuxine said: I have never laughed at anyone for their opinions in this board, ever! No matter how much I disagreed with them. EVER!

Phew! Okay, first off, Axia, you really seem to do a whole lot posting and very little reading of other's posts. In most threads you seem to be having an entirely different conversation than everyone else is having. Like the person who walks into a room and hears just a few words of a conversation that has been going on for a while, and quickly assumes they know what the conversation is about and immediately shoots their mouth off with a bunch of unrelated nonsense. In real life, a good general rule before joining a pre-existing conversation is to listen for at least five to ten minutes before throwing in your two-cents. To adapt this to the world of forums, I'd say reading the last five to ten posts would be prudent. Or at the very least be sure you have a grasp on the conversation at hand. Seems regardless of what we actually post, you have each and everyone of us pegged as a bunch of hateful jerks out to destroy all that is good and lovely in the world by disliking the PT and the SE.

We get that you like the PT, that is great, you are not alone here. We respect the fact that you like the films, that is great. I myself have said on many occasions that I like The Phantom Menace well enough. By throwing virtual fits everytime someone mentions the prequels sucking, and trying to prove how much worse the OT was than the PT, you are not accomplishing anything but making yourself seem like a typical TF.N fangirl. If all you really want to do is discuss SW with like minded fans, I have to wonder why you are here? You'd fit in quite well there, not to say you are not welcome here, because you certainly are. It is just that, well, if there is anything I find more annoying than complaining, it is complaining about complaining. And here you have me complaining about complaining about complaining, and that really gets me irked :)

AxiaEuxine said: I am not a TFN Fangirl, I dont like those forums becuase its full of kids...I perfer talking with people somewhere around my own age. And Im sorry I got you irked, as Ive said many times before I just want to share my love of what is still a fantastic franchise with someone. All my posts stem from that.

Seriously, lighten up. Some people don't like the PT. What are you going to do about?

AxiaEuxine said: Apparently Im gonna argue with each and every one of you about it. 

On a final note, some of us really do care about history and art, and the preservation of them. If you'd really read this forum with an open mind you'd see that.

AxiaEuxine said:I submit that my finding value in that which so many others do not is enough evidence of my open mind.

It isn't only SW that we have preserved here, but many other things. Take a look in the preservation section sometime.

AxiaEuxine said: I have not looked at any non-SW thread with any appreciable amount of time. Im here for SW woot!

It saddens me to see someone say that a classic film that has been severely altered, was not altered enough to their liking. You call us "ex-Star Wars fans", sounds to me like you were never one to begin with.

AxiaEuxine said: Never one to begin with? You couldnt say anything more offensive to me personally if you tried. The ex-Star Wars fans remark on my part was catty I will give you that.  I apologise. I just see (for the most part) older SW fans not giving the newer stuff any chance. Youll watch it but it seems to me that you've already made up your minds to hate it...Let me put it this way to you. Do you watch a new clone wars episode and say "Yeah more Star Wars!" or do you say :I hope this one doesnt suck"?

 I am not full of bullshit, I am not using this as an excuse not to like the PT or the SE for some diabolical reasons.

I care about the OT being preserved just as I care about all great works being preserved. I am sure someone like you may feel that a work like The Odyssey could use some good updating. After all, it is a rather archaic work.

AxiaEuxine said: Now lets not get petty.

it could use a more modern setting, perhaps it could benefit from some editing, removal of some pointless plotlines, some embellishments and reworkings of some bits to make it less boring. A lot of people could careless about a work like The Odyssey, and feel it has no cultural relevance today. To me and many others it has a lot of cultural relevance. Abridgments and translations of The Odyssey exist, but I still prefer to take the extra effort it takes to read the thing in the original Greek.

It may sound silly to compare SW to The Odyssey, but as much as some people will try to argue that SW is not culturally significant, or that it is hardly a classic, that it was just a passing pop-cultural fad, etc.

AxiaEuxine said: I wasnt belittinging its cultural signifigance. I agree with you . I doubted the sincerity of people saying that was one of the reasons they wanted the unaltered trilogy.

They have a very poor understanding of "classic" and "culturally significant". The literary critic Northrop Frye put it best when he defined a classic as "a work that refuses to go away". Those seven words absolutely define the OT's success over the past thirty years. It is most certainly a classic, hands down, no question. As for culturally significant? Hell, it would be impossible to count all the times SW has been referenced in other movies and TV shows. A popular modern TV show like LOST, for example, is so packed full of SW references, I have a hard time imagining what it would be like for someone who has never seen the OT. LOST is not the first show, nor will it be the last, to have countless SW references and in jokes scattered throughout its episodes.

If that isn't culturally significant, I don't know what is. SW holds more cultural significance for us today than most of those old classics that have been held in such high regard for so many decades.

TheBoost said:

I think I tend to agree that the PT hate is a viscous cycle. It seems to me that more people didn't totally hate the PT until a while after it came out. Partly this could be personal reflection, as the "OHMYGOD ITS STARWARS!" vibe wore off, and part of it might be the cycle of internet bitching honing disapointment of the films into a bitter dagger of snark filled hate.

I feel it seems some people hate the PT because it is the "in" thing that all the cool kids are doing. I feel this way because I could have sworn there was a time when I was a bit of an outcast among my circle of friends who like SW, because I didn't enjoy AOTC at all, while they thought it was a million times better than TPM. When I'd say it TPM was a lot better, they'd call me nuts. Now it really seems most of them tend to agree with me that AOTC is the weakest of the PT.

The question is, is this change of opinion a shift to follow the more popular views and be in the "in" crowd? Or can it be attributed to AOTC not holding up well over multiple viewings?

Personally, I'd give my friends and people like them the benefit of the doubt and go with the "not holding up well over multiple viewings" explaination. I think there was also a big movement from, "Wow, ROTS was downright amazing!" to "Well, at least it was a little better than AOTC..." for the same reason.

C3PX said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... haha... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I can't breath... hahahaha... phew... he he he... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Okay, okay, I'm alright, I -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

AxiaEuxine said: I have never laughed at anyone for their opinions in this board, ever! No matter how much I disagreed with them. EVER!

I was just joking around. I do find it interesting that you are so adamant about wanting your opinions seen as facts, i.e. "The prequel are good movies for f***s sakes!" Don't take it so personally, I mean you no harm. I respect that you like the prequels. It is the trying to convince everyone else to like them too, and villanizing them for not, that is absurd and humorous.

AxiaEuxine said: I am not a TFN Fangirl, I dont like those forums becuase its full of kids...I perfer talking with people somewhere around my own age. And Im sorry I got you irked, as Ive said many times before I just want to share my love of what is still a fantastic franchise with someone. All my posts stem from that.

The :) after my "seriously irked" comment indicated I wasn't seriously irked, so no need to apologize. Okay, that talking with people around your own age thing sounds fair enough. I imagine there are other SW forums around with more mature poster though (again, don't think I am trying to get rid of you, I am not! This place just really seems to get your back up. Maybe supplementing it with another less offensive SW forum would better fulfill your SW discussion needs).

AxiaEuxine said: Apparently Im gonna argue with each and every one of you about it. 

Exactly! Do you really want to do that? Because I don't think anyone else does. You seem to think that none of us gave the prequels a chance, and that had we been fair to them we would love them as you do. That simply isn't true. I give you my word I gave them a genuine chance, but no matter what I say, you will never believe me simply because I do not like them.

AxiaEuxine said:I submit that my finding value in that which so many others do not is enough evidence of my open mind.

That isn't open mindedness, it is varying tastes. I happen to like my coffee black, no cream or sugar. Would you take me seriously if I decided that everyone who thinks they need to put sugar and cream in their coffee because it was too bitter for them was close minded? Or what would you think of me if I starting shouting out, "Black coffee ISN'T too bitter for f***'s SAKE!!!" every time someone started to put sugar in their coffee? It isn't too bitter for me, but not everyone shares my tastes. It is no merit to my open mindedness that I like something many others do not.

The cold hard facts of the matter are, that many others on these forums love the PT just as much as you do. An open mind might have seen that by now. Just a thought.

AxiaEuxine said: I have not looked at any non-SW thread with any appreciable amount of time. Im here for SW woot!

Well, then you'll have to take my word for it. There is a lot of preservation work that goes on here non-SW related. Evidence that many of us take a great interest in preserving obscure and hard to find works, as well as works deemed unnecessary to preserve by those who own the rights to them.

C3PX said:

It saddens me to see someone say that a classic film that has been severely altered, was not altered enough to their liking. You call us "ex-Star Wars fans", sounds to me like you were never one to begin with.

AxiaEuxine said: Never one to begin with? You couldnt say anything more offensive to me personally if you tried. The ex-Star Wars fans remark on my part was catty I will give you that.  I apologise. I just see (for the most part) older SW fans not giving the newer stuff any chance. Youll watch it but it seems to me that you've already made up your minds to hate it...Let me put it this way to you. Do you watch a new clone wars episode and say "Yeah more Star Wars!" or do you say :I hope this one doesnt suck"?

No reason you should find that so offensive, it wasn't meant to be. You seem to put down the OT a lot, and you even said that it wasn't altered enough for your liking. You just don't come off sounding like someone who cares much for it. Here is another example of how you don't give us a chance, how you immediately assume none of us ever gave it a chance. I don't watch Clone Wars each week, because I don't like it. I could care less if it sucks or not. The PT however, I gave plenty of a chance, and as much as I really wanted to like it. I don't.

 I am not full of bullshit, I am not using this as an excuse not to like the PT or the SE for some diabolical reasons.

I care about the OT being preserved just as I care about all great works being preserved. I am sure someone like you may feel that a work like The Odyssey could use some good updating. After all, it is a rather archaic work.

AxiaEuxine said: Now lets not get petty.

Sigh. Missed my point obviously. Oh well, no big.

AxiaEuxine said: I wasnt belittinging its cultural signifigance. I agree with you . I doubted the sincerity of people saying that was one of the reasons they wanted the unaltered trilogy.

Why are you so distrusting? What reason do you have for not taking us at our word? Why do you want to feel like you know more about us than we know about ourselves? Why do you doubt our sincerity in wanting the unaltered trilogy for that reason? What other reasons would we have? Do you approach everything in life with such a high degree of distrust and doubt?

C3PX said:

Why are you so distrusting? What reason do you have for not taking us at our word? Why do you want to feel like you know more about us than we know about ourselves? Why do you doubt our sincerity in wanting the unaltered trilogy for that reason? What other reasons would we have? Do you approach everything in life with such a high degree of distrust and doubt?

Yes, I never take anyone or anything at face value.

PS: I love the original trilogy in all of its original glory. Please dont ever think I dont.

AxiaEuxine said:

Yes, I never take anyone or anything at face value.

 

PS: I love the original trilogy in all of its original glory. Please dont ever think I dont.

 

Isn't that basically asking us to take you at face value? ;)

I can only speak for myself of course, but I dislike the Prequels because they are bad movies, not because I'm angry with George Lucas. Crystal Skull sucked too, and I'm not at all angry with Steven Spielberg, quite the contrary.

AxiaEuxine said:

Yes, I never take anyone or anything at face value.

That is too bad. Sure, you don't want to go through life being gullible and believing absolutely everything you hear, it is just a shame to go through life with the "Extreme Distrust" setting as your default. It is not like we are slick salesmen who just showed up at your front door or shadowy figures you bumped into in an alley after dark. 

Anyway, before you expressed just wanting to discuss SW with other fans. My proposal is you do just that. Stop accusing everybody of insane things such as having questionable motives for wanting to OT on DVD, or of never giving the PT a chance, and just start some SW related discussions that interest you. You will find there are others around that will be happy to discuss it with you. If anybody pops in and tries to spoil your conversation, just give them what for.

As it is, the only threads you have started, and the vast majority of your comments, have all been criticizing, judging, and moaning about what a rotten bunch of intolerant, close minded haters we are.

Even in threads where we are discussing things completely unrelated to the SE or PT, and where you clearly had no clue what was being discussed (NPR thread), you felt the need to criticize other posters. Glad you saw fit to retract your comments, but you were obviously seeing negativity where there was none. 

What i cannot believe if that it took 10 years for it to sink in that the prequels suck.  and only know is it sinking in that Crystal Skulls sucked.  Its ImDB rating has gone way down and the Raiders won still almost has a perfect score.

Anybody Celebrating the Tenth anniversary of the Phantom menace  this year?

There was a  celebration for the 10th anniversary of star wars which was even in 1987 already recognized as a true modern classic.

the prequels were popular garbage cinema that rode the coatails of the legendary original trilogy.  I doubt that 30 years from now if the human race is still around they will be celebrating the Phantom Menace as a classic film that changed movie history.

It sure didn't change movie history. The only thing it really changed is how people will view Star Wars. Most will see it as having been tainted by the prequels, and that's not even taking into account the Special Editions.

skyjedi2005 said:

Anybody Celebrating the Tenth anniversary of the Phantom menace  this year?

 I was hoping too actually, maybe a nice 10th anniversary poster or something.

I forget who said it, but it was well-said...

The original Star Wars trilogy all succeed as movies, and as Star Wars films (ROTJ maybe a little less so, maybe a little more so depending on personal taste).  

Episode I- not so good as a Star Wars movie consistent with the previous ones, but succeeds as a film.  

Episode II- Complete and utter ****

Episode III- Had some good cinematography and some good sequences, but again, fails as a film.

----------------

There isn't just one problem with the prequels, IMO...there are many:

-*Awful, shallow, inconsistent, stilted scripts (this is the big one)

-No visual consistency with OT- CGI gone wild

-Inferior music and bad mixing

-Inferior acting- bad casting (Hayden in particular)

-It was just missing inspiration, an element of fun.  It was going through the motions.  Passionless.  Needed a different director than George Lucas.

Nope. Not trying convince anyone of anything. Unless any of you make posters than Id like a nice 10th anniversary poster for TPM.