In addition to my previous suggestions about the 2 dodgy AT-AT 'prop' shots - http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/topic/9060/page/197/ , here's even more HOTH GROUND BATTLE-related musings than ILM can 'shake a stick at', for consideration -
In no particular order, I'll start with the smaller AT-AT laserbolts....
Firstly, here are just 3 examples of shots that feature the AT-AT's firing their smaller 'side-guns' -
I remember someone commented a while ago that they didn't think that the 'smaller' AT-AT guns fired at all.... But it turns out that in addition to the 3 examples shown above, that there are several other times scattered throughout the battle where we also see these 'smaller' guns firing in very quick bursts. And they also have their own distinct 'rapid' sound effect.
Adywan - the AT-AT laserbolts are currently the SAME colour for both the 'big' guns and the 'smaller' guns, and although it seems that you are keeping the bigger, 'MAIN' laserbolts their EXISTING colour, I personally wouldn't be against seeing the SMALLER laserbolts from the 'side-guns', firing in a DIFFERENT colour perhaps....because a 'combination' of laserbolt colours could add additional interest and vibrancy to the sequence, and distinguish the smaller blasts a little more from the 'MAIN' AT-AT ones. (and also from the other similarly-coloured Snowspeeder, Turret gun, and Rebel 'hand gun' ones flying about too) Personally, I'd prefer these smaller bursts ALONE to be done in the same sort of excellent 'orange' with 'yellow core' colouring as your laserbolts from the floating 'Training Ball' aboard the Falcon in 'ANH:R'. Anyway, just a final speculation on that, and I'm still entirely happy with BOTH sets of AT-AT laserbolts remaining the same-ish sort of existing colour as each other that we currently see, if that's your preference, as your 'tweaked' ones already look great in the clips.
However, my main hope about the AT-AT laserbolts in general though, is that while there are potential opportunities for some additional 'MAIN' laserbolts here and there....that there is ALSO plenty of scope for additional 'side-gun' laserbolts firing throughout, too. There are lots of moments that these 'smaller' guns 'swivel' up and down, but yet are NOT currently seen firing, and it would be neat to see laserbolts added to some of these , especially during some of the scenes where hard-to-hit 'snowspeeder targets' fly quickly past them. (With additional laserbolt sound effects too, of course)
Here's just some examples where it would be good to see some extra laserbolt action coming from the 'smaller' guns, where there are currently none, as it would really help to bring more 'intensity' to these 'miniature' shots -
....such as during the shot below, which comes immediately after Luke says "That armour's too strong for blasters" (and also during the preceding shot immediately before Luke says that, where 2 snowspeeders are seen passing the 'close-up' side of General Veer's AT-AT too, but which is not shown here) -
....and here during the shot below, where a snowspeeder (not shown here) passes the AT-AT's side a good bit higher nearest to us, compared to 'Wedge's' snowspeeder 'wrapping around' the AT-AT lower down. And shouldn't there be a shadow added coming from the snowspeeder during this shot too, to tie-in with the previous 'wraparound' shot (not shown here) where it was casting one? -
....and here during the start of the shot below, where we might see a last, final burst added to the 'smaller' guns and/or the 'MAIN' ones, just as it starts to crash to the ground....aimed at 'Wedge's' snowspeeder that flies up away from it. (Note: just beforehand, where we see the 'close-up' of 'Wedge' in his cockpit, as we hear Janson say "Cable detached" - if you 'freezeframe' the shot, you can see that they are flying off upwards in front of the AT-AT, rather than behind it towards any others that might be coming behind at this point. Going by the existing footage (where there are no other AT-AT's in the shots), it could be argued that this particular AT-AT could be imagined to be either the FURTHEST BACK one, or is off to the SIDE of the group....in which case it might have been less risky for 'Wedge' to 'release' the cable at a point where he could fly behind it until it toppled, so that he and Janson couldn't be fired at by it!) -
....and here during the shot below , where it would be good to see some fire coming from the smaller AT-AT in the distance (probably it's 'MAIN' ones), as it's onscreen a while doing nothing -
....and here during the start of the shot below, which comes immediately after Luke has dropped to the ground from the AT-AT's belly, where again, we might see a last, final burst added to the 'smaller' guns and/or the 'MAIN' ones, during it's final step forward....immediately before the AT-AT judders to a standstill, and the 'explosions' start (green one first), due to Luke lobbing a 'grenade' inside it -
....then soon after the 2 shots above, we see Luke looking up from the ground at this AT-AT he's just dropped from, and then immediately see the bare shot below (which comes immediately before the AT-AT's 'head' explodes) - Is it possible to have SOME kind of added detail in the background here, indicating ANY of the following elements in the distance , ahead of the AT-AT? - Perhaps part of the Rebel Base, or Turret Guns firing towards the AT-AT (or some laserbolts anyway), or the Power Generator, or the ION Cannon (firing upwards?), or a further ahead AT-AT (or AT-ST even), or an oncoming snowspeeder or two, or some tiny Rebels, or some debris and smoke....
Anything extra would be appreciated to enhance this shot, as all the AT-AT's are heading in the general direction of the Base and it's 'trench(s)', and getting nearer to it by this point in the battle. The current background just shows some 'landscape' and nothing else. Also, is there a little too much 'debris' shown on the ground near the AT-AT, during this shot, at this point? -
....then just immediately after the shot above, we then cut to the shot below, where the AT-AT's 'head' explodes. The explosion happens so quickly near the START of the shot, that unless you 'freeze-frame' it, you can't really tell that we don't see a hint of the noticeably 'sparking'/'falling panel' on the AT-AT's left-side that is seen during the preceding shot above. It might be nice to know something similar has been added to the AT-AT's left-side here in the 1 or 2 frames before the explosion though, to tie the shots together -
.....also, in the shot above, shouldn't the 'snow' obscuring the front of the miniature AT-AT's 'window' be removed completely, so that it matches all the other AT-ATs, such as the other 'close-up' example shown below , that appears earlier on in the battle? (Even the AT-AT that ploughs headlong into the ground doesn't get 'snow' in this area during it's fall) And as I think someone suggested previously, I reckon it might be neat to have the subtle hint of an AT-AT crewmember (or two) be momentarily seen to be 'blown outwards' during the 'head's' explosion in the shot above, in a somewhat similar way to the unfortunate TIE pilot, during the 'asteroid chase'!
....then after the AT-AT's 'head' explodes in the shot shown 2 above, there is the briefest of 'dramatic pauses' where the screen goes black momentarily, before we then cut to the shot below as the AT-AT finally falls on it's side to the ground. Could a subtle laserbolt or two (firing towards the unseen Rebels in front) be added to the smaller AT-AT in the distance during the few seconds that this shot lasts? -
....also, during this shot below, we see that the falling AT-AT's rear-left 'foot-stem' suddenly shakes loose mid-fall. It's not too much of a biggie, but this always makes the shot immediately stand out as being a little too much like a 'miniature' for my liking, and I'd much prefer to see this wobbling 'foot-stem' not come 'loose' if possible. Having said that, I don't know if it can be improved much considering the sudden 'displacement' of the angle of the rear-left 'foot' itself, without some attention from Adywan.... Perhaps if the AT-AT's 'fall' could be 'slowed down' a tad (like the 'asteroid slug' was), it might give it a bit more 'scale' and improve things a little -
Of course, the problem is that the whole 'foot' of the 'miniature' was originally poked upwards with a 'stick' by an ILM crewmember, so the AT-AT would topple! (couldn't they have pulled it over less awkwardly with some fine 'fishgut' instead, lol?) - Seen clearer here in all it's glory -
This was all well and good back in the day, considering the limitations at the time, and it certainly wasn't something I ever focused on before, considering I was more distracted by the wobbly 'foot-stem' that came loose instead! It's a small thing, but it seems kind of slipshod that no-one at Lucasfilm seems to have deemed it a good idea to put it's much-vaunted CGI capabilities to some good use here, and erase this 'stick' for the SE DVD release.... It's the same kind of nice obvious little fix that was determinedly omitted on the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' DVD release too, where we can still see that damned 'pole' that overturns the truck from underneath, before it explodes.
(Note to George and Steven - That very noticeable 'pole' does NOT enhance the shot in any way, and I still can't quite get my head around the fact it wasn't removed for the DVD release, given the opportunity afforded by CGI at that point. Especially since you went CGI-apeshit with 'Indy 4'! Still....at least Adywan will be getting rid of the 'stick' now, thankfully!)
Something that's also been always jarring, has been the AT-AT shot with the 'pink legs'. During the shots when Luke's snowspeeder has crashed, the approaching legs in the middle shot below suddenly have an unnatural 'pink' colouration, compared to the leg shots before and after it. Can you get rid of all the 'pinkness' so that the legs are greyer to tie-in better with the top and bottom shots, if possible? (It's not too obvious in the shot shown here, but the 'pinkness' is glaring on the SE release) -
Adywan, I know you mentioned previously that you might end up doing away with the AT-ST, but I'm personally hoping not. In defence of it's appearance halfway through the AT-AT Battle, I remember that during my first ever cinema viewing of 'Empire', that when the (original) 'chicken walker' suddenly appeared in the shot below, that there was a big ripple of approval about it's funny-looking design. It just seemed to be such a typically inventive 'Star Wars' contraption at the time, with its slightly humourous, brisker walk, that added greatly to the ongoing visuals, albeit briefly. And so it was then good to see a second short appearance of it a little later on too, as seen in the bottom shot below.
Also, I remember you said something about the 'chicken walker' looking as if it's not on the same 'level' as the AT-AT in the foreground. However, on re-watching the SE version onscreen, the shot still works fine for me, from that angle under the AT-AT's head. And if the AT-ST is indeed 'higher' up than the AT-AT, it could just be that the 'chicken walker' is on a slightly higher area beside the AT-AT. If you do keep it, it would be neat to see the the 'chicken walker' fire at least once during it's shots though. Also, the AT-AT's front-right leg seems strangely 'serated' during the AT-STs first appearance, as if there's a little piece missing (it's the same on the GOUT), as can be seen in the first two shots below. It's leg should be straight at either side of that section. Could you fix this sometime? -
Returning to the subject of 'lasers' again briefly.... Apart from the similar colours of both sets of AT-AT guns/Snowspeeder guns/Rebel 'hand-guns'/ Turret guns laserbolts....there are also the 'multi-coloured' ones of the ION Cannon and the Rebel's 'round' gun emplacements. Personally I was never too keen on some of these, as some of them seem 'over-painterly' and very unconvincing. However, it seems that you are now doing a take on vaderio's excellent 'electrical' blueish-white ones for the ION Cannon, which is great news as far as I'm concerned. This is just another 'what if?', but what's your thoughts on the eventual colour of the Rebel's 'round' gun emplacements firing, being changed too? -
Here's a rough example of how the current 'multi-coloured' laserbolts look -
....and here's another variation where we see the detail of a 'round' gun emplacement only 'powering-up' in 'orange' before it eventually releases a 'multi-coloured' laserbolt (note: the previous example seemed to have a 'greenish-yellow' 'power-up') -
Okay, the 'what if' I'm throwing out here is, instead of the laserbolts from the 'round' gun emplacements staying at their current sort of overall 'pinkness', which is similar to a lot of other laserbolts flying around already, that they instead become an ALTERNATIVE colour throughout the sequence....while REMAINING the same colour that is seen during their 'powering-up' glows - this means either ORANGEY or GREENISH laserbolts or BOTH, as we see both types of 'power-up' glows. (They can even be made YELLOW or any other colour wished, at the end of the day) Personally, I actually like any of these, as the main thing would be that they'd add a bit of extra visual interest, and are more easily distinguished from the similar-coloured laserbolts already on show from the various other weapon systems, without being wildly 'rainbow-coloured' at times....
Finally, I'd just like to bring up this poor piece of stop-motion 'continuity' where the top shot immediately cuts to the bottom one, and reveals that the angles of the legs are not matching whatsoever....but more distractingly, shows the WRONG front-leg hitting the snow FIRST in the bottom shot! -
Now I don't know if it's possible to really sort the legs out properly during this shot or not, but if it can be, then that is fantastic....but if not, then it could be worth considering the following 'cheat' which involves 'flipping' the top shot so that the same front-leg hits the snow first. (It can only be the legs that are 'flipped' into reverse, as the AT-ATs are not covered with 'symmetrical' detailing on their main structure) Either way, it would be great to see some added thin 'cable' wrapped around the legs of the AT-AT shot shown above as it falls into the snow, shifting as the legs collapse. Also, there's a small side panel that comes off as it falls, and a bigger panel that 'flaps open' then closes again. I've always thought this 'flapping' side panel gives away the miniature too much, and that it would look more substantial if this panel didn't 'flap' open.... Also, at the very start of the top shot above of the legs beginning to topple, the REAR-LEFT 'foot' PIN 'jerks' suspiciously back into place suddenly. Can this be fixed? Here's how the sequence would now look, if this was done -
Immediately after Jansen has attached a 'cable' to the 'wobbly' AT-AT 'foot' PROP, Wedge says "Good shot Jansen" and starts to wrap around the oncoming AT-AT -
....then we cut to a 1 second side-on 'close-up' of Jansen grinning in his cockpit, before we then cut to the shot below -
....then we cut to 15 seconds of one or two other shots of the Snowpeeder continuing to fly around the AT-AT's legs, as well as various 'close-ups' of Wedge and Jansen as they 'detatch' their cable and fly off in front of the tangled AT-AT, before we eventually then cut to this shot below , which is now 'flipped' into reverse! -
....then we immediately cut from the 'flipped' shot above showing the entangled RIGHT-front leg falling first....back to the way things currently are in the shot below, and our eyes are drawn to the forward motion of the RIGHT-front leg shown here ALSO hitting the ground first! (Note: the rear legs don't match the angles of the shot above either, even when unflipped....but a viewer is far more likely to focus on what is going on with the front legs hitting the snow anyway, especially after repeated viewings) And you'll soon get used to the change of 'camera angle' from what you've been used to. ;) -
....and we then continue on the sequence till it's conclusion as normal....as we wonder when Adywan might spring his next 'flipped' shot on us! -
That finally covers everything AT-AT-related that I wanted to express, so I can concentrate on some last few other little issues scattered throughout the movie from hereonin. :)
