The Prequels: I seriously cannot watch Star Wars anymore. — Page 3

Akwat Kbrana said: "The awkward, creepy romance of AOTC is more realistic than the screenplay-romance of ESB." Granted, but if I was looking for realistic, I wouldn't be watching Star Wars. I'd be taking a walk, or crunching some numbers, or running some errands, or eating a bowl of cereal. Sci-fi movies ought to constitute an escape from the monotonous drudgery of real life.

Don't try denying, back-tracking, or bolding other things. You knew exactly what you were selecting to ignore. Read the above quote.

You basically said you don't want realistic romance. There's no other way of interpreting that post. Then I brought up that the interaction in Star Wars has always been fundamentally realistic and human.

Acknowledge that point, or this discussion is a waste of our time.

Oh, and "monotonous drudgery of real life"... all right, as a side note, I want to tell you that it's silly to assume life is monotonous drudgery for everyone. I can only assume that your life is this way, and you want everyone else to suffer along with you. Sure, escapism is fun, but no fun if it isn't at least to some degree relatable. Just because you haven't had any of those experiences doesn't disqualify everyone else. That's your ISSUE.

No, what I was saying was that I don't want interaction that is boring and cringe-inducing for the sake of realism. The Han-Leia romance in ESB is both believable and entertaining. The Anakin-Padme "romance" is believable to a degree (sure, teenagers flirt awkwardly) but neither entertaining, engaging, nor amusing. Hence, it's counterproductive. Besides which, it contains no spark of relatable humanity whatsoever. It's dull, boring, and just plain embarassing to watch.

Oh, and "monotonous drudgery of real life"... all right, as a side note, I want to tell you that it's silly to assume life is monotonous drudgery for everyone. I can only assume that your life is this way, and you want everyone else to suffer along with you. Sure, escapism is fun, but no fun if it isn't at least to some degree relatable. Just because you haven't had any of those experiences doesn't disqualify everyone else. That's your ISSUE.

Nice little ad hominem, particularly coming from someone who openly claims to be "unusual" and "awkward."

Taking the other side is really refreshing. I just want to point out that a lot of the bashing is misguided.

DarkFather said:

So you're trying to tell me that the believable human element in Star Wars isn't what helped it be such a cultural phenomena? That humans in Star Wars shouldn't be relatable, because that would be too realistic?

That's your issue, man. The interactions of the characters in Star Wars have always felt REAL. That's what makes part of the fantasy element so exciting, because you almost believe there are actual humans and aliens out there doing this stuff.

That's half of it. The other half is, the characters of Star Wars were likeable. The PT characters, not nearly so much. You can argue that that's realistic--a trilogy following a cult of back-stabbing villains, a cult of monastic child-brainwashing government-sponsored knights, and an ineffective politician should not be chock full of likeable characters. I agree it's realistic. But it doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable, or line it up with Star Wars.

The third half is chemistry and the fourth is acting, but those have been discussed to death.

Akwat Kbrana said:

No, what I was saying was that I don't want interaction that is boring and cringe-inducing for the sake of realism. The Han-Leia romance in ESB is both believable and entertaining. The Anakin-Padme "romance" is believable to a degree (sure, teenagers flirt awkwardly) but neither entertaining, engaging, nor amusing. Hence, it's counterproductive. Besides which, it contains no spark of relatable humanity whatsoever. It's dull, boring, and just plain embarassing to watch.

Oh, and "monotonous drudgery of real life"... all right, as a side note, I want to tell you that it's silly to assume life is monotonous drudgery for everyone. I can only assume that your life is this way, and you want everyone else to suffer along with you. Sure, escapism is fun, but no fun if it isn't at least to some degree relatable. Just because you haven't had any of those experiences doesn't disqualify everyone else. That's your ISSUE.

Nice little ad hominem, particularly coming from someone who openly claims to be "unusual" and "awkward."

Was awkward. As are most teenagers who are first going into the dating game. I understand that a lot of people can't relate to that, but if you remember back, I think you'll see similarities between your friends' flirting and Anakin and Padme's. To have Anakin being a smooth-talking James Bond would've been one route, but also a predictable route. You have to give AOTC kudos for going the unpredictable, even if it would get slammed for it later. I hate that film, but it had balls.

And yes, I'm very unusual. But guess what? So was the original Star Wars. And it was still very fun, and charmingly unusual like life was meant to be. I don't even hide that fact about myself.

I greatly enjoy watching Han/Leia creating that sexual tension. There's just so much chemistry there. That was also a realistic romance. Like I said before, these interactions are very real.

Then again, so is the Anakin/Padme romance. Those two were a little younger, not quite as learned. What? Did you want a clone of the Han/Leia romance? That'd be boring.

Not in the least; I just wanted something entertaining. A sociopath stalking a political activist might be good source material for a slasher flick, but leering, staring, whining, "I can't breathe," "I hate sand," etc., is anything but intriguing, particularly when this is the character we're supposed to be relating to. It's worse than boring: I've sat through plenty of boring lectures, but none that made me wince and grit my teeth like the scenes in question do.

Read the first paragraph in my last response, Vaderisnothayden.

Agreed. "Sub-par" would be a better designation that "unpredictable." I highly doubt that George set out to intentionally write a crappy movie. "I know, I'll make all the romance scenes abhorrent! That'll really surprise them!"

I don't think most of the complaints are the user's own initial thoughts from having watched it a lot of the time. I think they've been socially programmed by hanging around certain people, constantly hearing the same complaints, and then absorbing it into themselves while assuming they had the same "initial personal thoughts" as their friends. I've known too many who thought the PT was "okay" for the longest time before being exposed to hate lists and whatnot.

And I don't believe in censoring. Read hatelists and negative humor articles. But keep a clear head.

I guess those things have a tendancy to program people through repitition of a statement. You'll soon walk away thinking the author's thoughts were your thoughts originally, when in fact, if you had been mindful, you might have still walked away thinking the PT was "okay" rather than "goddam worse movies ever made."

Sure, sometimes we delude ourselves and need corrected on our thinking. But ask yourself: how is the person telling you these things any more credible then you are in the area of OPINION?

Think about things you read that appeal to emotion, therefore easily manipulating you. Take what seems sound, and cast all the other stuff away.

Vaderisnothayden said:

Already read it. Don't agree with it. I don't think there's anything realistic. Just because Anakin wasn't "a smooth-talking James Bond" doesn't mean it was realistic. Nor do I think the film doing a pathetic unrealistic teen fiction romance thing means it has "balls". And awkwardness on the part of the characters is not what characterises the romance, rather it's artificiality and lack of feeling or chemistry.

I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth.

Actually, come to think of it, given the context of the scene, and how he subtly and sensually slides a finger over the bareness of Padme's skin... that is probably more poetically seductive than what most would come up with.

Good job, Anakin.

Actually, if you're talking about people picking up views from others, I think that's a major explanation for all those people who think the PT is ok.

As for myself, I didn't pay much attention to anybody else's views before I saw AOTC and once I'd seen  it I decided it was crap right away. I thought it was crap because I thought it was crap, not because somebody else thought it was crap.

You know if that's true or not. In the end, all will be revealed.

and the anamorphic unaltered ot will come out about the same time.

Nanner Split said:

Just completely disconnect yourself from anything new and Star Wars-related. It worked for me. The last new Star Wars thing I absorbed was Revenge of the Sith in theatres, which was nearly four years ago. Other than TMBTM's Star Wars Silent Film Edition edit, I haven't watched any of the prequels since then, just the OT. It's worked brilliantly for me, especially since I've only seen RotS once (seen the other two a handful of times each). I barely remember anything about them.

+1. Good post.

DarkFather said:

I don't think most of the complaints are the user's own initial thoughts from having watched it a lot of the time. I think they've been socially programmed by hanging around certain people, constantly hearing the same complaints, and then absorbing it into themselves while assuming they had the same "initial personal thoughts" as their friends. I've known too many who thought the PT was "okay" for the longest time before being exposed to hate lists and whatnot.

And I don't believe in censoring. Read hatelists and negative humor articles. But keep a clear head.

I guess those things have a tendancy to program people through repitition of a statement. You'll soon walk away thinking the author's thoughts were your thoughts originally, when in fact, if you had been mindful, you might have still walked away thinking the PT was "okay" rather than "goddam worse movies ever made."

Sure, sometimes we delude ourselves and need corrected on our thinking. But ask yourself: how is the person telling you these things any more credible then you are in the area of OPINION?

Think about things you read that appeal to emotion, therefore easily manipulating you. Take what seems sound, and cast all the other stuff away.

 Thats funny becuase I think the same exact thing about prequel haters. I dont run into ANYBODY that actually likes them. Youve all let your opinions been completely colored and programed by your buddies, media the dog in the next yard.... Its the only explanation from walking away from the prequels and not thinking they are good movies... But to each his own.

I think people might be actually somewhat okay with the prequels as spinoff EU material if George Lucas treatment of the original 3 star wars films was taken out of the equation.

But after the 2006 non anamorphic transfers people are going to hate everything George does to the ninth degree until those films are given the treatment that they deserve and as the film industry expects and the fans.

I will not buy or support another Lucasfilm product unless it be a completely remastered and restored version of the theatrical release of the original trilogy from their original film elements.

Its nothing personal i don't hate George Lucas as a human being, but i have a right as a consumer to demand higher quality products for my money.

When sub par b movies and pornos get better treatment on dvd than the original motion picture star wars trilogy that made Lucas rich, you know something is fundamentally wrong.

Nobody seams to care what the fans even want.  Millions of people worldwide want to see these films and show them to their children in the best quality possible, and what do we get for being loyal to George Lucas for 2 or 3 decades a slap in the face with the gout.

skyjedi2005 said:

Its nothing personal i don't hate George Lucas as a human being, but i have a right as a consumer to demand higher quality products for my money.

I think this is the point people miss when bashing OOT fans.  They think many hold a personal grudge - which is typically not the case.  In gest people make comments about having one ("I will kill George Lucas with a shovel"), but I doubt many are serious.

Also, I have a few problems with the SEs - but they are HIS movies.  He's allowed to release them that way.  My problem is that he shouldn't be replacing it with the versions of the movies which were deemed culturally significant (particularly the first Star Wars, now known as Episode IV).