Bingowings said:DarkFather said:He's a Sith, I expect him to act out in rage. Sith use their rage to lash out at their enemies. In this case, he focused it on Luke and ended up taking off the kid's hand. But I'm talking about the exclamations themselves. Do you really think they belong with this towering, villainous half-machine that has been battle hardened? I don't think it does. That's why I suggest to Adywan that it be edited out. I could use the "first time we saw it in that context so it must be true" logic, and going by that, there'd be no point in editing any films. The yells were something that bothered me from the first time I watched ESB, and come to find out, it's bothering some other fans interested in this project as well.
I wasn't saying that because it's the first time it should stay, I was saying that because it's the first time that is the point from which you make any editing decisions from.
Vader is that way now, you can make a good arguement for making him a tougher creature in a re-edit but in the text we are working from he is really a fragile being pretending to be strong, he is hiding the fact that he is a weak, sick old man behind a fear inducing mask and machinery.
I think those responses help reveal that truth to the audience and it's something that pays off in the final chapter.
Actually, Vader isn't all that old. He's in his early to mid-forties in ESB if I remember right. Vader is sick, sure. In the sense that he's relying on a life-support suit. Yet with that suit on, he's anything but weak. The mechanical arms give him physical strength beyond any normal human shown in the way he lifts Antilles like a pillow. The whole argument that Vader is a pathetic weakling hiding behind a mask really falls flat. He was de-limbed, suffered third degree burns covering virtually all of his body, yet survived and continued working against the remnants of the Old Republic for over two decades. These are of course despite all of Lucas' nonsensical quotes to the contrary. Are we going to trust Lucas to keep a straight story anyway? I'm not, and I don't think you really do either. He's seemed obsessed with making Vader into a weakling with his quotes, when the films plainly show otherwise. Very weird stuff. So now that we've established that he's strong, tough, and still in his prime, we can now take into account that this hardened villain wouldn't be giving any sort of audible reaction from a little wound to the shoulder (depends on how you read the scene... you could say it was an angry outburst, or a pain surprise. I lean toward the last one). I hope Adywan decides to edit it out, and then we wouldn't have this silly contradiction to character in ESB. Also, we have to remember the cry he makes when falling from the platform in the carbon freezing chamber. That's another one that I think needs to go.