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The Prequels: I seriously cannot watch Star Wars anymore. — Page 2

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Last time I watched the originals straight through, I tried to watch them thinking the whole time about the connections, Hayden behind the mask, etc. etc.  It didn't work.  No matter how hard I tried, I could not reconcile the prequels with the originals.

Heck, this guy watched them straight through for the first time ever and couldn't do it.

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ESHBG said:

The thing that works for me is to look at the PT as almost EU, so you can take it with a grain of salt and accept it or not.

Almost EU? Personally, I see the PT as decidedly sub-EU in canonicity. Zahn and Stackpole, even at their worst, will always be vastly superior to this tripe.

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I honestly don't have a problem putting the PT out of my mind when I watch the originals- but then I've only seen the PT films once (except for TPM which I got roped into seeing twice). I can't even remember much about AOTC except that I hated it - LOL!

I'm sure that has a lot to do with the fact that I was a SW fan for so many years before the prequels came out, but I think that the PT will eventually fade from your memory as long as you make an effort never to watch them again.

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It's even more fun to forget about ESB and ROTJ when watching SW'77. It's an entire new universe without the baggage of retcons.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Just becuase you all hate the prequels and anything else that came out post 83 doesnt mean you shouldnt still enjoy whatever is left. I for one think theyve ruined the Bond franchise with the last two movies. Are they decent spy movies? Sure but they arent Bond movies. I still enjoy the movies that came before though. Im not going to let the fact that holloywood needed to gut the franchise of any Bond like things to make ordinary spy movies that appealed to a wider audience stop me from enjoying Goldeneye and any other Bond movie.

So just becuase you think Star Wars went in some direction you didnt care for dont let it stop you from enjoying A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, three of the best movies ever made.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
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doubleofive said:

Last time I watched the originals straight through, I tried to watch them thinking the whole time about the connections, Hayden behind the mask, etc. etc.  It didn't work.  No matter how hard I tried, I could not reconcile the prequels with the originals.

Heck, this guy watched them straight through for the first time ever and couldn't do it.

I do agree that I cannot see the connection between the PT and the OT at all. I can't see Hayden behind the mask in the OT. but the thoughts of GL trying to connect them two together is what irritates me.

 

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AxiaEuxine said:

Just becuase you all hate the prequels and anything else that came out post 83 doesnt mean you shouldnt still enjoy whatever is left. I for one think theyve ruined the Bond franchise with the last two movies. Are they decent spy movies? Sure but they arent Bond movies. I still enjoy the movies that came before though. Im not going to let the fact that holloywood needed to gut the franchise of any Bond like things to make ordinary spy movies that appealed to a wider audience stop me from enjoying Goldeneye and any other Bond movie.

So just becuase you think Star Wars went in some direction you didnt care for dont let it stop you from enjoying A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, three of the best movies ever made.

 

How's that comic cover coming along now that you have my expert advice?

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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I havent RETURNed to it yet, but I will

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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Wow. This thread touches on a lot of great points that I totally agree with. Especially:

The thing that works for me is to look at the PT as almost EU, so you can take it with a grain of salt and accept it or not.

In my mind, I've just completely separated the prequels from the OT. To me, they're like mindless SW-spin off video games (which isn't exactly false... lol) and crappy EU at best, so I don't consider them canon. I just focus on the OT, and how they're simply the three little movies that I grew up loving and still love to this day.  The last prequel I saw was ROTS once in the theater, and I haven't seen any of them since then. I just kind of act like they don't exist. LOL.

There's also solace in knowing that 20 years from now, the OT is what people and film historians will still remember, not the prequels...

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What I was trying to express in my first post but couldn't quite organize my thoughts around was this:

GL reserved that span of time in the Star Wars galaxy to tell the prequels, but that didn't stop authors like Zahn from referencing certain things long before George actually got around to making the PT. Then along comes TPM, and then three years later AOTC, and that's when people notice that it doesn't have much to do with anything that was previously mentioned.

Meanwhile, LFL launches that massive multimedia clone wars project with the six books, the genndy series, the comics, the digest comics, etc, and people got even more pissed as it became clear that GL intentionally left everything people wanted to see out of AOTC (tell me that's not the most commonly voiced complaint about the PT) just so he could make more money by spreading it out over that huge multimedia campaign. Cash grab though it was, the various creative minds behind it arguably did a better job than GL did with the prequels because they embraced what had come before in the EU and the OT.

See, after the Zahn trilogy hit in the early 90's it's almost like Star Wars fans got used to the universe being chronicled in that written medium. That and the fact it was limited by GL to only being post-OT didn't help lend him credibility, because by the time TPM was released it seemed even less connected to the OT than the actual EU did.

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AxiaEuxine said:

Just becuase you all hate the prequels and anything else that came out post 83 doesnt mean you shouldnt still enjoy whatever is left. I for one think theyve ruined the Bond franchise with the last two movies. Are they decent spy movies? Sure but they arent Bond movies. I still enjoy the movies that came before though. Im not going to let the fact that holloywood needed to gut the franchise of any Bond like things to make ordinary spy movies that appealed to a wider audience stop me from enjoying Goldeneye and any other Bond movie.

So just becuase you think Star Wars went in some direction you didnt care for dont let it stop you from enjoying A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, three of the best movies ever made.

Then there are some people like me who couldn't get into Bond before the new movies (my screenname is from my GoldenEye 007 on N64 days, still haven't seen the movie), but I'm at least willing to give all of them a shot now.  It doesn't make the point this thread is trying to get to, but I'm sure some people got into Star Wars through the prequels.

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AxiaEuxine said:

 I for one think theyve ruined the Bond franchise with the last two movies. Are they decent spy movies? Sure but they arent Bond movies. I still enjoy the movies that came before though. Im not going to let the fact that holloywood needed to gut the franchise of any Bond like things to make ordinary spy movies that appealed to a wider audience stop me from enjoying Goldeneye and any other Bond movie. 

 

As silly as the older films were sometimes, I have always loved them. A few stinkers, but most of them were a lot of fun. Didn't care a whole lot for the latest movie (it felt on par with the Die Another Day IMHO, which is not a good thing), but the latest adaption of Casino Royale is by far the Bond film that remains truest to its source material. I just always find it funny when people talk about it being de-Bond-ified in order to appeal to the masses, when in actuality it took a huge step back toward its roots.

But you are exactly right, it is silly to let bad sequels, prequels, and reboots to ruin the enjoyment of previous material that you already found enjoyable

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Fang Zei said:

Meanwhile, LFL launches that massive multimedia clone wars project with the six books, the genndy series, the comics, the digest comics, etc, and people got even more pissed as it became clear that GL intentionally left everything people wanted to see out of AOTC (tell me that's not the most commonly voiced complaint about the PT) just so he could make more money by spreading it out over that huge multimedia campaign. Cash grab though it was, the various creative minds behind it arguably did a better job than GL did with the prequels because they embraced what had come before in the EU and the OT.

 

In regards to Lucas leaving what people wanted to see out of AOTC (intentionally none the less!!!), what did people want to see in that film? I'm not sure what aspects of the Clone Wars 'cash grab' would have been better in the films.

The ludicrous action of the cartoon? The existential search for identity of Jangotat? Another disposable villain like Ventress or Durge? Obi-Wan's chestplate? Or were we all dispointed that AOTC didn't include MedStar Battle Surgeons!?? Which of these great plot points exactly were intentionally left out because of their overwhelming greatness?

As for most commonly voiced complaint about AOTC, it seems to me that it's between 'the love story blew' or 'the mystery subplot blew.' 

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Fang Zei said:

Meanwhile, LFL launches that massive multimedia clone wars project with the six books, the genndy series, the comics, the digest comics, etc, and people got even more pissed as it became clear that GL intentionally left everything people wanted to see out of AOTC (tell me that's not the most commonly voiced complaint about the PT) just so he could make more money by spreading it out over that huge multimedia campaign. Cash grab though it was, the various creative minds behind it arguably did a better job than GL did with the prequels because they embraced what had come before in the EU and the OT.

 

In regards to Lucas leaving what people wanted to see out of AOTC (intentionally none the less!!!), what did people want to see in that film? I'm not sure what aspects of the Clone Wars 'cash grab' would have been better in the films.

The ludicrous action of the cartoon? The existential search for identity of Jangotat? Another disposable villain like Ventress or Durge? Obi-Wan's chestplate? Or were we all dispointed that AOTC didn't include MedStar Battle Surgeons!?? Which of these great plot points exactly were intentionally left out because of their overwhelming greatness?

As for most commonly voiced complaint about AOTC, it seems to me that it's between 'the love story blew' or 'the mystery subplot blew.' 

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...or "every single solitary thing about it blew..."

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Well that's not even close to being remotely true. The Naboo landscape = excellent, beautiful. The speeder chase on Coruscant between Obi-Wan/Anakin and the Bounty Hunter = riveting. Ewan McGregor's acting as Obi-Wan = brilliant.

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- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Akwat Kbrana said:

...or "every single solitary thing about it blew..."

Lol! Yeah. I think the fight between Kenobi and Jango was actually good and I suppose the aircar chase wasn't bad, but mostly the film was total and utter shite and so much of it was so uninvolving just when it should have been involving, like in the big battle at the end. Kenobi wasn't bad mostly (though he was a far cry from the genuine quality of the real Kenobi in the OT), but Anakin was... how can I put it... one  of the worst portrayals of a character in film history? Padme was a disappointing turn from a quality actress whose talents seemed to be getting muzzled. Jango Fett was annoying, as was Darth Saruman. Villains should be fun or interesting, not annoying eejits. Yoda was crap, as usual in the prequels. The whole feel of the thing was dead and barren and shallow (though not as far that way as ROTS).

And the romance, god help us, the romance. As far as I can tell, Lucas intentionally made the romance awful. Not that he'd put it in those words, but there's a quote in The Secret History of Star Wars in which he says something like he knows he's portraying the romance in a way that men and people with cynicism won't like, which I read as men or intelligent women. And I think he's not giving women enough credit, because I don't see how too many women would be any more enthusisatic about that tripe than men. Feelingless artificial dogshit.

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I don't bash the romance too much. Looking back, I think I was just as creepy and awkward as Anakin around the girl I liked.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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DarkFather said:

Well that's not even close to being remotely true. The Naboo landscape = excellent, beautiful. The speeder chase on Coruscant between Obi-Wan/Anakin and the Bounty Hunter = riveting. Ewan McGregor's acting as Obi-Wan = brilliant.

 

No, McGregor's acting was very good by the standard of the acting displayed in the film, but it was hardly brilliant. McGregor never manages to connect you to the character to the degree the OT actors managed with theirs.

The Naboo landscape generally looked artificial and everything was overly prettied up. Too much sweetsy. So many locations in the prequels are just not realized with the same force of imagination as the locations in the OT.

The chase in Coruscant wasn't bad, but it was hardly riveting -the characters were insufficiently emotionally involved themselves, which cut down on the audience's involvement, though it was one of the most involving parts of the film.

 

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DarkFather said:I don't bash the romance too much. Looking back, I think I was just as creepy and awkward as Anakin around the girl I liked.

I think would take an unusual person to be as artificial and depthless as Anakin was in that film.

 

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Get to know me, Vaderisnothayden, and I can show you just how "unusual" I really am.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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DarkFather said:I don't bash the romance too much. Looking back, I think I was just as creepy and awkward as Anakin around the girl I liked.

The apologists use this one all the time. "The awkward, creepy romance of AOTC is more realistic than the screenplay-romance of ESB." Granted, but if I was looking for realistic, I wouldn't be watching Star Wars. I'd be taking a walk, or crunching some numbers, or running some errands, or eating a bowl of cereal. Sci-fi movies ought to constitute an escape from the monotonous drudgery of real life. I'll excuse the deplorable "romance" scenes in AOTC based on the realism argument around the same time my real life sees the advent of hyperspace, lightsabers, Jedi Knights, and battle-droids. Movies aren't meant to be a direct reflection of real life; they're meant to entertain. AOTC romance is neither engaging nor entertaining; it's just cringe-inducing.

Besides, it's not just the awkwardness that pervades everything Hayden does, says, or seems; it's the terrible quality of the acting. I've seen middle-school plays with more emotional depth and believability than the exchange between Portman and Christensen.

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I wouldn't say the AOTC romance was realistic. Realistic romances involve seem feeling or chemistry or they don't get too far.

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Akwat Kbrana said:
DarkFather said:I don't bash the romance too much. Looking back, I think I was just as creepy and awkward as Anakin around the girl I liked.

The apologists use this one all the time. "The awkward, creepy romance of AOTC is more realistic than the screenplay-romance of ESB." Granted, but if I was looking for realistic, I wouldn't be watching Star Wars. I'd be taking a walk, or crunching some numbers, or running some errands, or eating a bowl of cereal. Sci-fi movies ought to constitute an escape from the monotonous drudgery of real life. I'll excuse the deplorable "romance" scenes in AOTC based on the realism argument around the same time my real life sees the advent of hyperspace, lightsabers, Jedi Knights, and battle-droids. Movies aren't meant to be a direct reflection of real life; they're meant to entertain. AOTC romance is neither engaging nor entertaining; it's just cringe-inducing.

Besides, it's not just the awkwardness that pervades everything Hayden does, says, or seems; it's the terrible quality of the acting. I've seen middle-school plays with more emotional depth and believability than the exchange between Portman and Christensen.


 

So you're trying to tell me that the believable human element in Star Wars isn't what helped it be such a cultural phenomena? That humans in Star Wars shouldn't be relatable, because that would be too realistic?

That's your issue, man. The interactions of the characters in Star Wars have always felt REAL. That's what makes part of the fantasy element so exciting, because you almost believe there are actual humans and aliens out there doing this stuff.

So how are you reacting right now to having found you've missed one of the biggest points of the entire saga?

I'm no prequel gusher. But I'm bored, I'm sleep deprived, I've read enough nonsense, and it's time to call out the bullshit. Bring it.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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DarkFather said:

So you're trying to tell me that the believable human element in Star Wars isn't what helped it be such a cultural phenomena? That humans in Star Wars shouldn't be relatable, because that would be too realistic?

Compare with:

Akwat Kbrana said:

Besides, it's not just the awkwardness that pervades everything Hayden does, says, or seems; it's the terrible quality of the acting. I've seen middle-school plays with more emotional depth and believability than the exchange between Portman and Christensen.

Start paying attention, or go back to the shallow end of the pool. The point I was making re: realism vs. excitement was that Star Wars doesn't bother to show characters relieving themselves, dashing to the corner supermarket for a can of beans, or filing their taxes, because that would be boring. Not unlike the awkward, leery, creepy, contrived "romance" that the audience is subjected to in AOTC. Movies need to maintain a dynamic tension between fantastic excitement and authentic humanity, and arguing that just because Star Wars characters have depth and humanity (though they're few and far between in the PT) then Star Wars is ipso facto an accurate portrayal of real life, you need to pull your head out and see the light of day.

You're not actually arguing against any point I've made; you're just being whiny and crotchety because someone disagreed with your opinion. Oh,  boo, hoo. If you find the portrayal of Anakin and Padme in the PT "relatable" or indicative of real humanity, then you've got issues...

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