Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 21

This Sail barge scene will take a lot of work. I want to see limbs flying it'll be so nasty

Not perfect but a little storyboard of how Obi-Wan can now haunt his hut:

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine gives him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

TLSO said:

RE: the Sail Barge scenes - is the sand supposed to look that orange? Just seems weird to me. In the other movies I remember it a lot lighter.

I'm sure there are many different colours of sand on a desert world.

Bingowings said:

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine give him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Sort of - this progression causes pacing issues, unfortunately.

What works better is:

- Start off with Vader visiting the Death Star
- Boushh delivers Chewie (paint out Threepio, since he's not there yet)
- Luke on Dagobah, Yoda dies
- Leia rescues Han, is captured (again, paint out Threepio)
- Han talks with Chewie
- Luke lands on Tatooine, after getting out of X-Wing says "I can't do it R2" then hears Obi-Wan from inside the hut, goes inside and has conversation with Obi-Wan (could also start inside hut)
- Droids go to Jabba's palace, get captured ("message" is never delivered)
- Luke arrives at the palace, Rancor, Sarlacc Pit
- Emperor arrives on Death Star
- Luke arrives at the meeting (greeting part goes first), then briefing commences, ending with a nervous pause after "General Solo, is your srike team assembled?"

The rest of the movie would pretty much play out without more drastic structuring changes, but obviously with toned-down kiddie B.S.

ChainsawAsh said:

Bingowings said:

Ripplin said:

I likes! :D

I would like to ask, though, since I may have missed it; what is the thinking/rationale behind Luke talking to Obi-Wan in his Tatooine home rather than on Dagobah?

The idea came from people wishing to have the film start on Dagobah, with Yoda's death (to create the impression that Luke has been finishing his training).

Then comes the Darth at the Death Star scene.

Then Luke returns to Tatooine sending the droids to Jabba. I thought it would be a nice bookend to Luke getting his father's lightsabre and getting the first half of the story about his dad in Ben's hut if he built his new lightsabre and got the full story about his dad in the same place.

He is about to save Han but has doubts because of losing Yoda and finding out about his father.

So Ben returns to his home to give Luke a bit of a lift before the battle to come, besides I was never happy with Ben wandering around in the swamp like that it just seemed a bit weird (more like he's retired and planting cabbages than actually being a ghost).

It's a good excuse for why all of Ben's stuff is still around (the Sandpeople and the Jawas won't go near the place because it's literally a haunted house).

Then comes the droids on route to the palace.

Chewie is delivered by Boushh etc and Luke rescues them.

Having Leia's relationship to Luke revealed on Tatooine give him and us a bit of a break between revelations (hopefully making them easier to swallow) and keeps up the suspence about who the other is for a bit longer too.

Sort of - this progression causes pacing issues, unfortunately.

What works better is:

- Start off with Vader visiting the Death Star
- Boushh delivers Chewie (paint out Threepio, since he's not there yet)
- Luke on Dagobah, Yoda dies
- Leia rescues Han, is captured (again, paint out Threepio)
- Han talks with Chewie
- Luke lands on Tatooine, after getting out of X-Wing says "I can't do it R2" then hears Obi-Wan from inside the hut, goes inside and has conversation with Obi-Wan (could also start inside hut)
- Droids go to Jabba's palace, get captured ("message" is never delivered)
- Luke arrives at the palace, Rancor, Sarlacc Pit
- Emperor arrives on Death Star
- Luke arrives at the meeting (greeting part goes first), then briefing commences, ending with a nervous pause after "General Solo, is your srike team assembled?"

The rest of the movie would pretty much play out without more drastic structuring changes, but obviously with toned-down kiddie B.S.

Presumably Boussh's lines are translated via subtitles?

Otherwise you need Threepio there to do what he is designed to do (translate) that's a lot of lines in Huttese to sit through without hearing any human speak and does give Threepio less to do.

Not unless you recolour Threepio, give him a different voice (a bit like this guy/girl :

and have the Hutt destroy this protocol droid leaving an opening on the employment register for Threepio to nervously fill.

I actually prefer the whole ghost scene in Ben's house (R2 is in the hut anyway to record the message and to take delivery of Luke's new toy. Threepio is outside because like Bail Antilles a generation before Luke can't trust him not to blurt out a secret) but as I described earlier it's very difficult to do convincingly.

I can't really see as yet the pacing problem other than not a shot has been fired until Boushh enters the palace but that goes with the film in it's current form and starting with Vader is no different from starting with Yoda in terms of mood both are downer openings, one with a new big weapon thingy and another with Luke becoming the only Jedi left alive.

Empire wasn't hurt by having Vader turn up well into the movie so I can't see Jedi being hurt by it either.

Yes, Boussh's and Jabba's lines are all subtitled.  At the end, you have the "I like Captain Solo where he is" shot, but instead of that the subtitles read "Now I have the complete collection" or something to that effect, then wipe to next scene.

The pacing problem with opening on Yoda's scene is the incredible amount of honestly boring exhibition you get with that scene, which is fine if you're already engaged in the story, but to start it off like that is asking a little much of the audience.

This way, we start off the way the movie has always started (not to mention we keep the Star Destroyer opening, albeit replaced with the Executor), then a scene where stuff actually happens.  You're admittedly kind of thrown into it, but that's fine since that's how ANH started.  THEN we get to the expositionary Yoda scene, and since it's Luke's first scene, we assume that he's been there for a long time finishing his training.

Obi pictures, on Tatooine,  are nice but I think that to make the job easier and more realistic, that scene should be at night. With only few light inside Obi's hut, to fit better with the characters.

Ripplin said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The pacing problem with opening on Yoda's scene is the incredible amount of honestly boring exhibition you get with that scene, which is fine if you're already engaged in the story, but to start it off like that is asking a little much of the audience.

Good point. The movie wouldn't exactly start with a bang that way.

 

I agree but it doesn't start with a bang with Vader either, at least Empire starts has a hard thump near the beginning, whichever way it's cut Jedi lacks the kick that all the others have. So it's a choice of exposition scene, you could start with Chewie being dropped off (there's a bit of drama there, not enough really though) but that buggers up the Jabba introduction.

It's one of the reasons why I suggested some sort of dogfight at the beginning showing the Rebels are constantly being tracked, shot down and running, just to give the film a punchier beginning.

Lucas really screwed up on this one.

TMBTM said:

Obi pictures, on Tatooine,  are nice but I think that to make the job easier and more realistic, that scene should be at night. With only few light inside Obi's hut, to fit better with the characters.

Once again a really nice idea on paper, firstly because when Luke started his journey it was in the bright glow of a youth looking to the future with some optimism and now he's a seasoned and slightly broken older man looking to the future with understandable dread, and we haven't seen Ben's hut in the dark so it would look familiar but different.

But if mixing one scene to the location of another is hard enough try doing it when the location was never recorded lit for night, it would make an already difficult job almost impossible.

Though I will give it a try, naturally ;-)

Not as bad as I thought and I'm getting better at the shimmer (even if it has shaved the top of Ben's hairpiece off) maybe you experts out there can do it better?

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

- Emperor arrives on Death Star

*Obi's last line "...but they could be made to serve the emperor" works well with *this* scene being next.

Ah, that's a very good thought - I was just thinking we needed to get the Jabba shit out of the way before we went back to the Emperor, since the second and third acts of the movie are about the rebels vs. the Empire as opposed to rescuing Han (first act), with Vader arriving behaving like a "cold open"/"teaser."

That hits on another problem if the message is never delivered how do the droids get into position to play their part (not that Threepio does much) in the rescue?

Jawa's snatching droids is one thing but I can't believe Jabba or even his cronies would would do something like that.

Sticking the Emperor's arrival so early it does cram in even more exposition at the start and there already is a fair wack but the dialogue does seem to demand it (point taken about keeping the acts seperate but we got a lot of cutting back to Tarkin in ANH and that didn't hurt much).

My instincts say.

Yoda or Vader first (and it's really much of a muchness which) something that could be weighed up by doing a dummy edit.

Yoda or Vader second (depending on what happened first).

Then Luke on Tatooine (in whatever form is possible)

Then the Emperor arriving, then droids, then Boussh, then the rescue, the briefing,  (for those who want the Boba Fett plot part one goes before Leia revives Han but after Chewie gets dropped off, Part two takes place just before the briefing).

Having Yoda first though means that you don't get two Luke scenes right next to each other (you do get a evening followed by a morning with the droids but ANH had that sort of thing anyway).

I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that two random droids coming to a gangster's palace with a message from someone who's a friend of a current prisoner would be commandeered and put to work.  I don't have a problem with the lack of the message - the point of the message was to A) communicate to the audience that Luke is now a Jedi, and b) remind the audience that Solo is imprisoned.  In our theoretical edit, both of these things have already been clearly communicated through Boussh's delivery of Chewie, where Jabba shows off Solo, and through Luke's conversation with dying Yoda.  In this edit, the message is redundant, but we still need the droids there for the sail barge part.

ChainsawAsh said:

I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that two random droids coming to a gangster's palace with a message from someone who's a friend of a current prisoner would be commandeered and put to work.  I don't have a problem with the lack of the message - the point of the message was to A) communicate to the audience that Luke is now a Jedi, and b) remind the audience that Solo is imprisoned.  In our theoretical edit, both of these things have already been clearly communicated through Boussh's delivery of Chewie, where Jabba shows off Solo, and through Luke's conversation with dying Yoda.  In this edit, the message is redundant, but we still need the droids there for the sail barge part.

Not exactly because sending the droids of as a gift deliberately puts the droids into position take away the message and the audience doesn't know why Luke sent them there and their capture will seem more of an accident than part of a plot on Luke's part.

Besides the message show's that Luke gave diplomacy a chance and used violence as the last remaining option (short of leaving Han where he was and letting Leia get herself killed or worse still captured and trained by the Emperor).