STAR WARS Movies Animated — Page 13

Well Chainsaw, keep the faith.

I've been tossing around this "crazy jedi clone" idea and I have to admit I'm REALLY conflicted on this.  The reason is, I think my Ep1 story could really use it, BUT I'm not sure I BUY the concept.

Here's how the idea works:
When Obiwan, Anakin, and Bail escape from capture, a clone trooper "tags" Obiwan, getting a copy of his genetic code (but dont say that's what it is).  Then we can show this specific trooper reporting to the Mandalorian leader on Alderaan.  He was unable to bring the heir (a failure for which he is about to be executed), BUT he delivers "something else valuable" (which saves his life).  This benefits our story, because now we get to see this Mandalorian leader and loathe him a bit, instead of just in the final act.  We should also see the development of "something".  Leave the audience wondering what it is.  In Act3 when Bail and Obiwan confront the Mandalorian leader, it is revealed that his bodyguard is actually Obiwan's clone.  The best thing this does for the story is that it gives us the possibility for a lightsaber battle in Ep1. Woohoo! Obiwan being a good jedi (defensive fight) and the clone being the bad jedi (attacking).  Obiwan will talk with the clone.  The more the clone tries to feel the force, the more "off" he feels.  He is an artificially created life form and a power created by all living things doesn't react well with him.  In the end, The clone will not understand what to do with these sensations and will kill himself with his own sabre.  This idea will also show the Mandalorians that cloning Jedi just won't work.

Here's my problem:
If you cloned Mozart, would the clone be a great musician?

Everyone seemed to hate the idea of controlling the force being biological. But if a clone can inherit that ability, doesn't that MAKE it biological?  I feel that controling the force should be like any other talent.  It comes easy to some, but other can achieve it with hard work.  Do you think a clone would inherit TALENTS as well?

I told you I spend alot of time shooting down my own ideas.  I think that something LIKE this can really help my Ep1 synopsis. I could just use some help working out the logic here.

You have great ideas. It just seems strange to me that everyone is up in arms over midichlorians which are only mentioned once or twice yet are perfectly okay with Jedi being cloned.

Yup, that's pretty much my point, there.  To some degree, it can help the story, but I still can't wrap my head around the CONCEPT.   And I dont think I can accept the one without the other.

Here's my problem:
If you cloned Mozart, would the clone be a great musician?

Depends of your cloning method... ;) (I guess I really go SiFi now here!)

If it is like in AOTC, where the clone starts from babies to adult, you'll need to teach them the specific skills you want them to have. But if your cloning method can duplicate a person to another identical one (same age, same body, same brain), then maybe you could make Mozart number 2.

Cloning as a sci fi concept has been around forever and used in varying degrees of 'audience acceptance' in a load of movies - The Island is one example where someone has been cloned but doesn't know they've been cloned from an original. Their isolation from the original gives them a different nature but the same kind of knowledge albeit in flashback form - things seem very familiar but the clone is unable to put a finger on why. Old TV shows, especially those from Gerry Anderson, dealt with cloning in someway - copying brain patterns, robot 'clones' with the same memories and abilities, etc.

My idea about the clones was that all abilities are biologically inheritable but that it requires proper schooling to harness those skills. Jedi are biologically able to sense the Force more than 'normal' people and are trained to focus on that ability. It's not to say that the midichlorian idea is an acceptable one - I still think it was a very shoddy idea to try and explain the Force and how people were taken to become Jedi. The 'What If?' surrounding cloned Jedi is whilst you'd be able to copy the original's form right down to their brain pattern, you'd still be able to manipulate the end result via the gestation period. Implanted thoughts and suggestions would come from the 'nursery' which would eventually conflict with the original's memory patterns and begin to drive them mad perhaps? The other side to this is perhaps by having two of the same accessing the Force, the Force itself would know the genuine one and begin to reject it, thus driving the original mad...?

Sorry if it doesn't make an awful lot of sense...it kinda did when I started typing it out. Anyway, it's early...I'll leave the '3 year old' method to you guys to shoot holes into it :p

So is Ben going to be clone OB1 then?

It was one of the big rumours back in the day.

R2D2 is refered to in writing as Artoo Detoo so why not the other way round?

ewwwwWWWWW!!!!

sorry...my 3year old just broke out!

I reeeeeally think making Oniwan from the OT a clone would be a BIG mistake.  I was having a hard time wrapping my head around having ANY cloned Jedi, even crazy ones.  Doing that to a major character.... I think my head would explode.

My thoughts on the subject of technology.

CLOAKING DEVICE:
I think the enemy having a cloaking device, and the threat of enemy ships just appearing and attacking, can be very dramatic, exciting, and Star Warsy.

I think the idea of a plot revolving around aqcuiring cloaking device technology starts to feel a little to 'sci-fi' and not as Star Warsy.

CLONING
Somebody refrenced the clones as 'dopplegangers' and that resonated with me. Replacing people with evil clones has a kind of mythic quality. (Although I still prefer cloned shocktroopers, which totally eliminated much of the scifi/cerebral aspects of the cloning question).

I don't care for the idea of cloning specific Jedi, insane or not, to recreate force powers. It makes Jedi too biological and makes the cloning too scientific a concept.

MITICLORIANS
Interestingly, I've never minded midichlorians. For one thing, we already knew the Force could be inherited ("The Force is strong in my family") and for another, it served the story purpose (which I think is the reason the entire concept was created) of identifying lil' Anikin as megapowerful, possibly the chosen one. But making miticloriens the basis for cloning evil Jedi with force powers I think crosses the line away from the Mythical Space Opera elements of Star Wars into something else.

Interestingly, I've never minded midichlorians. For one thing, we already knew the Force could be inherited ("The Force is strong in my family") and for another, it served the story purpose (which I think is the reason the entire concept was created) of identifying lil' Anikin as megapowerful, possibly the chosen one. But making miticloriens the basis for cloning evil Jedi with force powers I think crosses the line away from the Mythical Space Opera elements of Star Wars into something else.

Kind of agree. I always thought that, once Midicholrians being included in TPM (like it or not), it should have been a major plot in the other 2 prequels. Lucas was toying with the idea of Palpatine being the creator of Anakin through Midichlorian (the opera scene is a hint of this sub plot). Instead, like many other ideas or characters of his prequels, it leads nowhere.

And Midichlorian are not an explanation of the Force, which is still a mystical thing.

But like almost everyone I don't like much that almost "arian" race concept. What I'm thinking is: what about only the Sith are using the midichlorians to have their powers? They need them, while the Jedi use "true" Force.

I think the clone idea I posted above is starting to click for me.  I already wrote up how I thought it would help my little Ep1 story.  I think I finally have a handle on the concept with one setence I've heard MANY people say throughout my life:  Whenever someone watches a child do something really well they respond something like, "Wow, he takes after his (insert relative)."  If talents, whether they are athletic, artistic, or force controling, can be handed from one generation to the next,  that means they CAN be genetic, right?  From father to son or from donor to clone.  I'm not talking about a whiteblood cell count or midichlorian count, but just something buried deep within that genetic code that helps them have an aptitude for a given talent. Granted, I don't buy the idea of the donor and the clone having similar personalities.  There we start getting into a nature vs nurture debate, and that's not the point of having this in the story.  This is not to create one of those silly, "OH MY which one do I shoot? Which is the real Obiwan?"  Its mostly for the story reasons I stated above. To show that a Jedi clone cannot function.

BUT this can also helps with the fear and paranoia angle I was going for in EP2.  It gives us another reason for the populus to turn of the Jedi.  Remember, the Jedi I was trying to establish are DEFENDERS and not SOLDIERS.  They take a rather passive role throughout the Clone Wars.  Now realize, these Jedi can sense clones (regular folks can't) and they are safe from being replaced (regular folks aren't), but they don't use this to take the fight to the enemy.  Can you see, how their passive stance could almost be seen as disloyal?  Can you see this scene in EP3?  The Emperor dismisses the Jedi.  Their limited services are no longer required as the Sith knights kneel before the emperor to offer their services.  Even at this point, the people of the republic and the audience should agree with the emperor.  He wants knights that will take the fight to the enemy not just defend the republic. Active involvement not passive.

But like almost everyone I don't like much that almost "arian" race concept. What I'm thinking is: what about only the Sith are using the midichlorians to have their powers? They need them, while the Jedi use "true" Force.

I'll answer to myself on this one...! :

It just can't work because in this case the Emperor could not brings Luke to the dark side just by twisting his mind like he try to do in ROTJ. Next time I'll think twice before posting! Ah!

Sigh...it appears everyone's interest has waned.

WheresBlackhawk said:

Sigh...it appears everyone's interest has waned.

I think the problem here is people seem to be running before they have even evolved lungs.

There are already some great ideas on here but it's sort of descended into concerned posts from people who don't like specific ideas or want to animate it in a specific way, when there isn't even enough put down to make one solid story (let alone three) and picking the animation style is something you do when you pretty much have a finished script (not before).

If people are serious about doing this sort of thing those that are should go read this thread from top to toe, pick the ideas they like, write a story treatment, see if any of the responses to it are useful and then press onto a full script.

Then cast the audio recording and resource sound effects etc and then set a house style that volunteers can work to so if people drop out of the project other people can pick it up without changing the look and the thing can get finished.

This thread should be stage one (pulling for ideas).

Stage two should be picking the story treatment (there could be more than one project).

Stage three polishing various scripts and tightening every bolt and pre-production.

Stage four production and post production work.

If you have a plan you have a chance of pulling it off.

If you just meander around nothing will be done.

With Adywan's projects their are about four threads losely or closely associated with them (some cross over to other projects too but on the whole they are energised by the Revisited versions).

ESB:R is still some time away and there is a lot of people working on providing ideas that Ady might use on not only ROTJ:R and the prequels and they are years away.

Those projects are based on films that have already been made once, the acting has been done, it been designed and filmed and still those projects are pulling out ideas only some of which will actually be realised by anyone not just Adywan.

Here there is one thread devoted to a project where nothing exists yet (which can be liberating but can also be very devisive).

If this thread begins to dry up put it on the back burner for a bit and just write the thing and come back with something concrete that people can add to and illustrate with pictures and the like.

But if you chaps are serious about getting this done don't give up.

"Do or do not, there is no try"

Don't worry, Blackhawk - I'm still chipping away at an early script.  It's a slow process what with school and other "real life" stuff getting in the way, but it's definitely chugging along.

And I'm still anxious to hear your Episode III ideas.

WheresBlackhawk said:

Sigh...it appears everyone's interest has waned.

 My interest hasn't! In fact, it was all I was thinkng about on the commute home today (although admitedly my car stereo is broken :)

I think we hit a snag on a thorny issue of hard/soft sci-fi before the project got rollicking with momentum from all the cool ideas we AGREED on. Clones be damned!

I think the Anakin/Beru/Owen family unit, and the idea of making Bail Organa a major heroic character were SPOT ON. Episode One should be a rip-rollicking swashbuckling adventure flick with Obi-Wan as the main hero, and Bail and Anakin as his crew.

If we aim to NOT worry too much about clones, and the exact manner of the fall of the Jedi and Republic until Ep. 2, maybe we can keep brainstorming ideas and plot points for Episode 1.

Let's call the Ep. 1 baddies 'Mandalorians,' just for the sake of a name, (call them Bob for all I care right now) and worry about how they fit into the bigger picture later (like how Lucas did with the Empire and Darth Vader).

The Mandalorians need a leader, and probably a secondary villain. I'll try and come up with some ideas ASAP.

Also, since the Emperor is out their somewhere, whether Palpy himself is in Ep. 1 or not, it's not unfeasible to have a dark Jedi involved somehow, because evil Jedi are awesome and lets us have lightsabre fights. He doesn't need to be identified as 'Sith,' even if we chose to incorporate the Sith organization in later episodes or not. Some mysterious black garbed, red-sabred badass involved in the plot (even tangentally, perhaps even at odds with the Mandalorians)  could be cool.

RANDOM THOUGHTS ABOUT TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE:

Since eventually Anakin has to do it, here are two non-Star Wars movies that I think contain excellent looks at positive characters that, for very real seeming reasons, become the villain. 

THE PRESTIGE: If you've seen the film, there's a truly great moment where the Scarlet Johansen character says to the Hugh Jackman character that, "Learning his secret won't bring your wife back." and the Jackman character responds, "I don't care about my wife, I care about his secret." After he says it, Jackman takes a moment, and the look in his eyes as he realizes that what he said was true is chilling. THAT is what turning to the dark side could be like, when you realize that whatever high ideals you once thought movitvated you are not true anylonger.

TO KILL A KING: Great film about the English Civil War with Tim Roth as Oliver Cromwell. The relationship between Cromwell and Fairfax (Dougray Scott) is a study of falling to the Darkside. THroughout the film Fairfax is horrified as Cromwell betrays the ideals he thought they shared in a ruthless effort to consolidate power, all for the 'greater good' in Cromwell's point of view. 

Just tossing out ideas. I don't know about you guys, but for all the talk about 'the power of the dark side,' Anakin entering a Faustian bargain with Palpy struck me as a little anticlimactic. I thought when he iced the sandpeople village, that was a major character point, but in the end it didn't factor into his 'turn.' Nailing Anakin's fall thematicallly will be pivotal.

WheresBlackhawk said:

Sigh...it appears everyone's interest has waned.

NOPE

TheBoost said:

RANDOM THOUGHTS ABOUT TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE:

Since eventually Anakin has to do it, here are two non-Star Wars movies that I think contain excellent looks at positive characters that, for very real seeming reasons, become the villain. 

 

THE PRESTIGE: If you've seen the film, there's a truly great moment where the Scarlet Johansen character says to the Hugh Jackman character that, "Learning his secret won't bring your wife back." and the Jackman character responds, "I don't care about my wife, I care about his secret." After he says it, Jackman takes a moment, and the look in his eyes as he realizes that what he said was true is chilling. THAT is what turning to the dark side could be like, when you realize that whatever high ideals you once thought movitvated you are not true anylonger.

TO KILL A KING: Great film about the English Civil War with Tim Roth as Oliver Cromwell. The relationship between Cromwell and Fairfax (Dougray Scott) is a study of falling to the Darkside. THroughout the film Fairfax is horrified as Cromwell betrays the ideals he thought they shared in a ruthless effort to consolidate power, all for the 'greater good' in Cromwell's point of view. 

Just tossing out ideas. I don't know about you guys, but for all the talk about 'the power of the dark side,' Anakin entering a Faustian bargain with Palpy struck me as a little anticlimactic. I thought when he iced the sandpeople village, that was a major character point, but in the end it didn't factor into his 'turn.' Nailing Anakin's fall thematicallly will be pivotal.

Or the granddaddy of them all, Michael Corleone in The Godfather/The Godfather Part II.

Chainsaw, what do you think of my "crazy jedi clone" idea?  I think cutting back to the Alderaan occupation will give us a chance to focus a bit on the Mandalorians and understand their motivations.  We will also get a bad guy we can hate (He's basically the Tarkin of this movie), but know there is still someone above him calling the shots back on Mandalor. (and we get a lightsaber battle in Ep1)

Boost,  I see what you mean about getting too bogged down in the TECHY solution to the cloaks and the hit and run attacks by the Madalorians.  The simple solution of course is if the jedi can sense clones, thena jedi could track a cloaked clone ship.  Problem solved. I think I got stuck here, because I needed an arc for Obiwan.  In my Ep2 outline, he was just where I needed him to be, but he (and Bail as well) was missing a story.  For my Ep2, I was trying to use the AOTC and ESB idea of splitting the main characters up.  In the end I want Obiwan to feel that HE failed Anakin.  That he brought Anakin into this world, but he was not there when Anakin needed him.  For example, when Anakin is conflicted on Cruscant (and he actually IS one of the Sith killers), when he asks Obiwan to protect NotPadme while he leaves to fight (Bail saves her), and Obiwan thinking that his failed Student killed Anakin. I still see the NPT as not so much about Anakin, as they are about Obiwan and his world changing around him.  ALSO... I was saving the dark jedi/sith for Ep2, becasue I was diggin' the idea that Anakin's speech to Obiwan at the end of Ep1 that the jedi should not sit by but do what was neccessary and right infact INSPIRES the creation of the Sith.

I think I have a cool Star Wars-y idea for the Anakin battle with the Mandalorian secret base in my Ep2 outline.  I'll try to post it tonight.

I really love this thread! Great ideas in here... just a few things that jumped into my mind:

The Jedi shouldnt be portrayed as some new-age hippies! Yes, of course, they are spiritual and all of that, but they do kill, if its necessary, etc... They are "Jedi Knights", we should remember this and maybe even find some more analogies to medieval knights. That way Obi-Wan could easily become the Knight of the Organas and thus he becomes a General.

I dont think Obi-Wan should ever leave the Jedi Knight. I don't even think we should approach the Jedi Order as some sort of organization that you can leave or get into. Its more about the formal training and calling of the force.

I really love most of the ideas posted by Blackhawk and Chainsaw, so many of my thoughts build up upon them:

Blackhawk was talking about an invasion of Alderaan. Now, what do we do with that? I think the planet could be taken "hostage". The republic should be built upon trade, so the invaders would blockade the planet, threaten to destroy industry or as a last measure kill off population or the royal family.

The republic senate could deicde to give military aide to Alderaan, because they won't let themselves be blackmailed. Since this could lead to the death of millions Obi-Wan tries to prevent a massacre through diplomacy and travels to Alderaan. Thats when the prince of Alderaan, Bail Organa, flees from his responsibilities and Obi Wan now has to track him down, because the royal house has to stand together as one to make a treaty.

My biggest problem with this approach is that it sounds a bit too similar to the beginning of TPM. Especially the first part with the occupation. Someone made an important observation in this thread, that we should try to do things as different as possible, in comparison to how GL did them in the PT. So the conflict around Alderaan should be very different. No Droids. No big invasion. Maybe go more with the clone concept and have infiltration? Replacing people in key positions, slowly hiding a military force on the planet, etc. But: We dont need to see this, this sould happen before NPT, and could be told to the viewer through dialogue (for example Obi-Wan explaining the situation to Anakin, who has no idea what he has gotten himself into...). Important for us is not the conflict itself, but the characters, obi-wan, bail, anakin and how the eventual resolution of this first Clone War begins to corrupt the Republic and shows signs of its possible demise.

We all agree that Episode I should stand on its own, right? So what we really need is an adventure that MUST be fleshed out. Whats the story we want to tell? In ANH its "Rise of a hero and victory in an important battle against the Evil Empire". We already have the "Rise of a hero" part and i can imagine most of it just fine, but we need real conflict, loss, drama, not just some obscure or far away Clone War (in ANH lukes next of kin are killed, so the empire is a real threat). ANH has all those little scenes that establish scenario and characters (like the cantina, garbage smasher, etc)... there's so much happening, its exciting to watch.

Oh and by the way: We dont need to explain everything right away. Leave some mystery to it. We dont have to explain exactly how the Jedi are organized, how many there are... Of course we can already mention Yoda, but we dont have to explain why he's on Dagobah or what he's doing there.  These are all things that can be done in Ep2 and Ep3. This will keep people hooked and make it more interesting to watch.

Deathcrow- Please take no offense to any of the following.  I am just trying to explain my thought process in regards to your post:

The Jedi shouldnt be portrayed as some new-age hippies! Yes, of course, they are spiritual and all of that, but they do kill, if its necessary, etc... They are "Jedi Knights", we should remember this and maybe even find some more analogies to medieval knights. That way Obi-Wan could easily become the Knight of the Organas and thus he becomes a General.

BUT the force has always been a "new-age" kind of thing where strength comes from being calm, at peace, and stretching out with your feelings .  I've tried to explain me views on the Jedi before, I guess I'll try one more time.  When I was growing up, there was all the talk about nine chapters to Star Wars and the first three being about the Clone Wars.  Even back then, I thought, "Man, those will be dull! Good Jedi are boring because they can't do anything cool."  If you listen to both Obiwan and Yoda in the OT you see that the force should only be used for knowledge and defense and that aggression leads to the dark side and that the force comes from ALL living things.  These statements make Jedi action heroes kind of inappropriate.  As I've said before, Luke was a cool Jedi to watch because he was so close to falling to the darkside (doing things that went AGAINST his teachings). IF your power comes from ALL LIVING THINGS then wouldn't killing deplete or harm your own power source?

I think we are also looking at knights from different directions too.  I'm going for an Authurian concept.  The old republic was like Camelot where Right Makes Might, where it's a golden age and defending the republic would not be about war.  Now I'm using the Clone Wars to lead us to the Empire, where Might Makes Right!  Simply put, Jedi philosophy doesn't work well against this and leads to their downfall, just like the fall of Camelot.  The Jedi are unable to adapt to the world around them so they fail.  LUKE is the one who FINALLY adapts with the balance of the dark and light sides of the force, and he is victorious.

I dont think Obi-Wan should ever leave the Jedi Knight. I don't even think we should approach the Jedi Order as some sort of organization that you can leave or get into. Its more about the formal training and calling of the force.

There is a reason for this.  It has to do with character development.  It's when people doubt their faith.  Both Anakin and Obiwan leave the Jedi because they need to adapt to this new world.  In the end, Anakin falls to the darkside and when Obiwan fails, he retreats back to his original role as so many others do when they fail.

I really love most of the ideas posted by Blackhawk and Chainsaw, so many of my thoughts build up upon them:

Blackhawk was talking about an invasion of Alderaan. Now, what do we do with that? I think the planet could be taken "hostage". The republic should be built upon trade, so the invaders would blockade the planet, threaten to destroy industry or as a last measure kill off population or the royal family.

The republic senate could deicde to give military aide to Alderaan, because they won't let themselves be blackmailed. Since this could lead to the death of millions Obi-Wan tries to prevent a massacre through diplomacy and travels to Alderaan. Thats when the prince of Alderaan, Bail Organa, flees from his responsibilities and Obi Wan now has to track him down, because the royal house has to stand together as one to make a treaty.

My biggest problem with this approach is that it sounds a bit too similar to the beginning of TPM. Especially the first part with the occupation.

Way back after I first posted my Ep1 synopsis, I joked that if you break it down to just concepts it did run similar to the original Ep1.  BUT the story is very different. Actually, I was trying to structure it (in terms of story flow) like ANH.  You made it more like Ep1 when you brought up trade disputes, blockades, Obiwan the diplomat, and Bail fleeing.  In my synopsis, the invasion was about wounded pride and revenge.  They offer the republic clones as a limitless workforce, but when they are denied, they turn that workforce into a limitless ARMY. If the Mandalorians would not be accepted into the republic, they would see it fall.  These stories can't get bogged down in politics.  Motivations can be very simple.  We build on and flesh them out as the story goes.

Someone made an important observation in this thread, that we should try to do things as different as possible, in comparison to how GL did them in the PT. So the conflict around Alderaan should be very different. No Droids. No big invasion.

It is different.  The invasion of Alderaan is NOT the whole first act like in TPM.  Instead, it is the thrill that kicks off the events and sets our characters in motion, like the beginning of ANH.  There are no battle droids, because we have Mandalorian clones. And it is NOT just the invasion of Alderaan, but several worlds.  We just focus on Alderaan because that is what our characters are fighting for.

Maybe go more with the clone concept and have infiltration? Replacing people in key positions, slowly hiding a military force on the planet, etc. But: We dont need to see this, this sould happen before NPT, and could be told to the viewer through dialogue (for example Obi-Wan explaining the situation to Anakin, who has no idea what he has gotten himself into...). Important for us is not the conflict itself, but the characters, obi-wan, bail, anakin and how the eventual resolution of this first Clone War begins to corrupt the Republic and shows signs of its possible demise.

If you read my Ep2 synopsis, the infiltration idea kicks into high gear there.  When the idea of invasion proved unsuccessful, a more subtle plan is needed...FEAR.  My goal is to have the audience ROOT for the SITH, support Palpatine in doing what is necessary, AND THEN feel guilty when they realize what is happening.  Ep3 SHOULD almost feel like a good ending (to the clone wars) until you realize that the Might Makes Right mentality brings an end to peace and justice AND the republic.  I hope you will understand when I post my synopsis of Ep3.

We all agree that Episode I should stand on its own, right? So what we really need is an adventure that MUST be fleshed out. Whats the story we want to tell? In ANH its "Rise of a hero and victory in an important battle against the Evil Empire". We already have the "Rise of a hero" part and i can imagine most of it just fine, but we need real conflict, loss, drama, not just some obscure or far away Clone War (in ANH lukes next of kin are killed, so the empire is a real threat). ANH has all those little scenes that establish scenario and characters (like the cantina, garbage smasher, etc)... there's so much happening, its exciting to watch.

Yes, I agree that Ep1 should stand alone, and I feel that my synopsis was fairly fleshed out (not down to scene and dialogue, but it was only a SYNOPSIS).  Even more so now, with the addition of the "crazy jedi clone" arc.  I don't want this war to be far away or obscure.  Its right there in our face.  Bail's father is asassinated 3 minutes in.  We see the rise of two heroes that find they can learn from each other and that this friendship makes them them stronger than they were.  (This is why I am trying so hard to keep them separated in Ep2).

I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from here.  This whole project, to me, is just a challenge to see if it CAN be done in a way that is faithful to the OT, keeps its secrets, and lets us look at IV-VI in a new light.

My goal is to have the audience ROOT for the SITH, support Palpatine in doing what is necessary, AND THEN feel guilty when they realize what is happening.  Ep3 SHOULD almost feel like a good ending (to the clone wars) until you realize that the Might Makes Right mentality brings an end to peace and justice AND the republic. 

I can't agree more. The audience must feel "betrayed" by Palpatine.

But maybe this shoud happen at the end of EP2. I really would  like to have a full episode left to actualy see the Empire at its top, hunting the Jedi to the last. And bring our good characters to the point where they loose all hopes.