doubleofive said:*woosh*
That's the sound of this whole thing going over my head.
Same here. I usually try to understand everything, but this particular discussion has me ready to just give up and wait to see what the final product looks like. :P
doubleofive said:*woosh*
That's the sound of this whole thing going over my head.
Your lucky, lol, it's given me a headache thinking about it this much now!
Hm, much ado about nothing from me... I just saw this entering /exiting tunnel sequence again. It's too short sequence to even assume there are diffrent entering and exiting tunnel. Secondly there is a constantly same audio backround which suggests (at least in the finished movie) that the tunnel Luke walked trough is in the same facility/floor/room/place and therefore like, ca 20m long. Manipulating entering and exiting tunnel colours in such short sequence would only have credibility if we saw a lots of similar different tunnels before in the movie but we didn't. Adywan will probably need to find another way of dealing with this "wrong floor issue" but i'm sure he will. And if not... well, we can still enjoy the story, design and the feel can't we? :-)
Good stuff. In Adywan we must trust.
Ady seems to be three steps ahead of everyone on everything, but I'm sure he values these discussions very much. Even he misses things from time to time. Haha.
Yeah, I'm sure he loves having his brain twisted into angles and dimensions that only exist in quantum physics.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
vaderios said:
The good with the paintings is that they are fast.
The diference with the mattes is it needs time.
Monroville: I really like the concepts you make. But Ady will be the final judge of what is in or not :)
I try to make your ideas with more detail just for fun and for brainstorming!
-Angel
Very impressive! I apprecaite what you've done so far.
Even if Ady doesn't use my design, it would at least be cool to see something like this in the final product (a few scenes where the view is expanded like this).
On a side note, I guess it would make sense that the air shaft Luke and Vader fight within is located off to the side of the main column underneath Cloud City, due to the fact that after he falls into the various tunnels, he comes out on the bottom surface of the city, as opposed to getting ejected out of the vertical column (which I always though WAS the air shaft - maybe as a means of bringing air down to cool the reactor below).
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Siliconmaster482 said:doubleofive said:*woosh*
That's the sound of this whole thing going over my head.
Same here. I usually try to understand everything, but this particular discussion has me ready to just give up and wait to see what the final product looks like. :P
I'm still getting my head around the blue/grey/purple/pink Star Destroyer thing about a 100 pages back!!
It's gonna be hard for me to watch the film these days without wondering who/what/where he should come from, out of what window, holding what toothbrush.
But carry on...if anything, it makes interesting reading while the missus watches all the crappy shit on TV
;)
One more issue for ESB - fans which i like to mention was cosed by this "wrong floor" problem of accessing the Vent pod. Step by step please now, very dangerous issue. It's called "intercutting".
@Imperial fighter: I tried to find any reason for flipping any image in a Vent pod till Platform duel-part. The only one I saw was the completely wrong tunnel-direction Luke is stepping out from. I couldn't find ANY other reason to flip anything else really, because everything else looks exactly where it should be.
As I said before, there may theoretically be more tunnels Luke goes trough to come to the round window chamber and not only that long one in extended access arm, tunnels and elevators which bring Luke not only to higher floor but also to exit the tunnel from almost opposite direction to the extended access arm, because someone designed the room that way (no foult on anybody).
What brings me to another issue. I have a very good reason to suspect that it wasn't planned to look "wrong" way on the end, and it just came to my mind WHY because it was an issue on my my own recut of ...The Phantom Menace.
In one of Star Wars Documentaries about making ESB Kershner talks about how the first version of a movie was much more intercutted between different action places and "it just didnt work" so they had to recut it again in a completely different, much slower manor (that means remaining on the same place of action for longer time so people watching could have more time to feel and identify with characters wich keeps the tension high rather then jumping all the time from place to place and all you can see in a short cut is a group of people running trough a corridor like later in Ph. Menace).
The new result was much better for everybody then, and they left it this way, connected it trough sounds and music and we all loved it exactly this way because it was like magic. Of course I would like it to stay that way.
Now... back to our tunnel - floor problem. I suppose that the Duel sequence "Carbon chamber - Tunnel - Round Window Chamber" , in final film presented as ONE was in the first edit intercutted in TWO and it looked like this: "Carbon Chamber - Entering tunnel (maybe even some walk trough it so we see how long it is) - INTERCUT Leia and Chewie running around to save Han - Luke exiting another tunnel after elevator or something - Round Window chamber duel". In that version there were no soundeffects suggesting that the tunnel is ca 20 m long and is in the same room/place/hall as round window chamber etc. (if there were any at all at that stage).
In second and final, slower intercutted ESB edit two different duel places are in one scene and Luke's approch between them looks wrong despite they tried to cover it by showing the Vent pod from outside (suggesting direction of a long(!) tunnel) much later after Luke falls out a window plus long intercut with Leia & co.! And, admit it, folks, as you first time saw this movie, you didn't think go like "oh that's how Vent pod looks like from outside, so the tunnel Luke exited 2 scenes before was made in wrong direction!! Bingo!!".
That first more intercuted edit of ESB may be the answer for all geografical problems with that scene, but it would be interesting to ask Lucas or Kerschner... if they remember .... :-)... to find out definitely, among some other things too.
Personally , I wouldn't like any intercutting tempochanging changes in Adywan's version, except it works absolutly great, which he can judge really well, so I trust he will do a good job with this, regardless which way he decides to go with it.
I thought I would throw this in the mix
I made up a short animation of Boba Fett's chest lights. This is taken from the Carbonite Chamber scene as well as several production photos
so when it comes to doing the FX for his chest lights, Especially outside the Torture Room Scene, you have something to work with. I speculate that the bottom 5 LED Digit sequence starts all 'ON', and just slowly emliminates lights till its fully 'OFF'. There are probably more combinations inbetween, but they would have to be guessed at. The Top set is EXACTLY what it should be doing. Hope this helps.
And yes, the fifth Digit is supposed to look like that. In photos of the costume on display you can see when they placed the lights under his armor, the window wasn't cut to the full length and partially covers up the last digit.
vaderios said:
The good with the paintings is that they are fast.
The diference with the mattes is it needs time.
Monroville: I really like the concepts you make. But Ady will be the final judge of what is in or not :)
I try to make your ideas with more detail just for fun and for brainstorming!
-Angel
...Wow. That looks... a LOT better.
If I may say so, this sort of reminds me of the Droid Factory from AOTC.
I hope that Adywan is able to pull something like this outta the hat.
"What am I gonna call this, a plasma sword? Except, that instead of a limited beam of pure plasma...it's SHODA!!" - Adam Savage
Welcome to the World of MOTHER 3
Überm Sternenzelt richtet Gott, wie wir gerichtet.
I am digging that mock-up of the Carbon Freezing chamber, vaderios. Is there enough room there for Luke to jump off the edge? He isn't going to hit any beams, right?
Sluggo said:I am digging that mock-up of the Carbon Freezing chamber, vaderios. Is there enough room there for Luke to jump off the edge? He isn't going to hit any beams, right?
No idea what you mean :P! Not any beams.
-Angel
That carbon freeze chamber extension thingy is awesome indeed. makes it seem a little more threatening in my opinion.
So, is Adywan going to add the AT&T logo and the word 'Apple' to this shot when he gets to ROTJ? I think it really adds a lot.
I don't remember who mention it that the exterior is supposed to be bigger compare with the interior !
The perspective is screwed up
Don't mind some visible paintings i was in rush
-Angel
vaderios - although this angle of the 'width' of the 'Vent Pod' seems to rule out the 'Carbon Chamber' being above it in any way, as some 'schematics' seem to speculate, I think that the 'interior' set shots could just about be accomodated, when looked at closely, especially when you look at the version you've posted on the right-hand side there.
ImperialFighter said:vaderios - although this angle of the 'width' of the 'Vent Pod' seems to rule out the 'Carbon Chamber' being above it in any way, as some 'schematicatics' seem to speculate, I think that the 'interior set shots could just about be accomodated, when looked at closely, especially when you look at the version you've posted on the right-hand side there.
The problem you run into is that you would have to have a MASSIVE bubble on the upper part of the pod, if not redesign the whole pod to accomodate the circular carbonite chamber AND the bluish void around it, even without the (possible) walkways extending from it. Even if the tunnel Luke walks through from the carbonite chamber to the pod is not connected to the carbonite chamber (even though it is the immediate scene after Luke jumps down off the CC platform, you could -as a viewer- assume he went through a few extra passageways before the tunnel shot), the whole architecture of the entire sequence is way off.
Not to mention it would make it kinda awkward to put a chamber you going to be using on a regular basis for your business in one of the most hard-to-reach areas in a 100+ mile wide floating city.
But let's face it: STAR WARS isn't exactly logical.
I mean, what kind of plans did GREEDO's mother have for him? Do you really think things would have turned out better for the guy if his name was Nice-o?
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Darth Wagner said:One more issue for ESB - fans which i like to mention was cosed by this "wrong floor" problem of accessing the Vent pod. Step by step please now, very dangerous issue. It's called "intercutting".
@Imperial fighter: I tried to find any reason for flipping any image in a Vent pod till Platform duel-part. The only one I saw was the completely wrong tunnel-direction Luke is stepping out from. I couldn't find ANY other reason to flip anything else really, because everything else looks exactly where it should be.
As I said before, there may theoretically be more tunnels Luke goes trough to come to the round window chamber and not only that long one in extended access arm, tunnels and elevators which bring Luke not only to higher floor but also to exit the tunnel from almost opposite direction to the extended access arm, because someone designed the room that way (no foult on anybody).
What brings me to another issue. I have a very good reason to suspect that it wasn't planned to look "wrong" way on the end, and it just came to my mind WHY because it was an issue on my my own recut of ...The Phantom Menace.
In one of Star Wars Documentaries about making ESB Kershner talks about how the first version of a movie was much more intercutted between different action places and "it just didnt work" so they had to recut it again in a completely different, much slower manor (that means remaining on the same place of action for longer time so people watching could have more time to feel and identify with characters wich keeps the tension high rather then jumping all the time from place to place and all you can see in a short cut is a group of people running trough a corridor like later in Ph. Menace).
The new result was much better for everybody then, and they left it this way, connected it trough sounds and music and we all loved it exactly this way because it was like magic. Of course I would like it to stay that way.
Now... back to our tunnel - floor problem. I suppose that the Duel sequence "Carbon chamber - Tunnel - Round Window Chamber" , in final film presented as ONE was in the first edit intercutted in TWO and it looked like this: "Carbon Chamber - Entering tunnel (maybe even some walk trough it so we see how long it is) - INTERCUT Leia and Chewie running around to save Han - Luke exiting another tunnel after elevator or something - Round Window chamber duel". In that version there were no soundeffects suggesting that the tunnel is ca 20 m long and is in the same room/place/hall as round window chamber etc. (if there were any at all at that stage).
In second and final, slower intercutted ESB edit two different duel places are in one scene and Luke's approch between them looks wrong despite they tried to cover it by showing the Vent pod from outside (suggesting direction of a long(!) tunnel) much later after Luke falls out a window plus long intercut with Leia & co.! And, admit it, folks, as you first time saw this movie, you didn't think go like "oh that's how Vent pod looks like from outside, so the tunnel Luke exited 2 scenes before was made in wrong direction!! Bingo!!".
That first more intercuted edit of ESB may be the answer for all geografical problems with that scene, but it would be interesting to ask Lucas or Kerschner... if they remember .... :-)... to find out definitely, among some other things too.
Personally , I wouldn't like any intercutting tempochanging changes in Adywan's version, except it works absolutly great, which he can judge really well, so I trust he will do a good job with this, regardless which way he decides to go with it.
Hi again Darth Wagner - I see you've reverted back to a possible 'multi-tunnel'/ or 'lift to another tunnel' proposal to make sense of where Luke exits into the 'interior' shots of the 'Vent Pod'....
Your speculation about how the makers might have originally filmed an earlier version showing a more elaborate enty to the 'Vent Pod' by Luke is interesting....but only another theory at the end of the day.
Even if they did, I can still only go by the existing footage that flows in the movie, which (only my own theory, and not necessarily correct either) gives me the impression that Luke has entered the long 'extending support arm' only, and then exits from it at it's end....directly into the area with the round window on his LEFT, which contradicts the 'exterior' shots.
At the end of the day, whatever Adywan decides to amend or not amend here, will be interesting to see....and I will personally be more than happy with it, considering I know that his edit is going to be my preferred version anyway.
Going back to my 'mirror' method (while 'pausing' the DVD) to quickly check out how the exterior 'Vent Pod' shots would look, if they alone were 'flipped' in the sequence -
while that's an interesting idea of yours to 'flip' the shot of Luke exiting the 'acess tunnel' instead, so that the window seems to be on his RIGHT side now (like in the exterior shots)....this would cause far too many other problems, and a whole lot more 'interior' shots would also have to be 'flipped' too, to make any sense....
Time will tell.
EDIT - Monroville, I think you may have thought that I implied that I believed the 'Carbon Chamber' COULD be accomodated in the 'Vent Pod', going by your reply there. What I really meant is that I reckon only the 'interior' shots of the rest of the eventual the Vader/Luke duel could possibly fit into it plausibly!
vaderios, I meant to say that this looked quite neat! Although the 'width' seems to be very thin here, this nearest 'Vent Pod' does give an example of the side that I always thought the window should have been positioned on, compared to the interior shots....albeit that the long 'extending support arm' should be more in line with wherever the window is positioned, of course.
Thanx for responding, Imperial Fighter. I could have written it simplier: Trough more intercutting of whole finale, the Duel sequence we discuss could have been parted in two on the point when Luke enters the tunnel (with another Leia/Lando - action inbetween). That would make an impression, that Luke needed much more time to reach to Vent pod and "dispecify" the number of ways/tunnels he went trough... and it could have look like this in the first unsucsessful cut of the movie.
This is for everybody who finds my "book" in the previous post to hard to read :-)
Now Adywan has only material which he has to work with and I hope he will lose this problem if he decides so, of course. I hope he will not cut this duel sequence in two cause it feels great as it is now. If Luke comes out from an elevator instead a tunnel, it all would all be in the wright place - but he told in one of his later posts, he doesn't know yet ...
I agree with you completely and ... let's see what he'll decide....
I have a question for the guys who are revisiting ESB.
I read about the bridge scenes being a mess and I agree that the command control are a long way from the bridge which also annoyed me on the dvd version and am glad you are trying to fix this.
My question is this
The scene with Vader, Ozzel, Veers and Piett.
Vader; "That is the system and I'm sure skywalker is there. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers preprare your men"
Will you be ommitting the line that vader states "I'm sure skywalker is there"
I hope so and the reason being that if vader is looking for skywalker then the whole scene with the emperor is pointless as he surprised that skywalker is strong in the force and he blew up the death star.
I alsway though it should have been this
Vader; "That is the system. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers preprare your men".
Also love the the pics shown of the new bridge scenes
ImperialFighter said:
vaderios, I meant to say that this looked quite neat! Although the 'width' seems to be very thin here, this nearest 'Vent Pod' does give an example of the side that I always thought the window should have been positioned on, compared to the interior shots....albeit that the long 'extending support arm' should be more in line with wherever the window is positioned, of course.
Possibly! Besides that scetch made in rush. In the other hand if this scene flipped ( with the two wings or whatver they called) it makes more sence the eye focused on the closed object. Also you mention something about Luke and fliping the shot. Maybe now is possible :)
-Angel
adywan said:My thought on the whole stardestroyer placement issue (during the Executor reveal) is that all the stardestroyers have all just returned from deploying the probe droids around the various systems and are now regrouping with the Executor, so they would be facing all directions and not uniform in placement
Just to add to this, maybe what you could do is begin the scene by showing them all jumbled up, but show the SDs in the background start to group together during the montage INTO a well-organized fleet heading in one direction, so when we get to the full frontal Executor shot, you can see SDs already sliding into positions around the Executor and heading in the same direction. That way the SDs are not just moving about all over the place but aren't boringly moving in the same direction right off the bat either.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Grythandril said:I have a question for the guys who are revisiting ESB.
I read about the bridge scenes being a mess and I agree that the command control are a long way from the bridge which also annoyed me on the dvd version and am glad you are trying to fix this.
My question is this
The scene with Vader, Ozzel, Veers and Piett.
Vader; "That is the system and I'm sure skywalker is there. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers preprare your men"
Will you be ommitting the line that vader states "I'm sure skywalker is there"
I hope so and the reason being that if vader is looking for skywalker then the whole scene with the emperor is pointless as he surprised that skywalker is strong in the force and he blew up the death star.
I alsway though it should have been this
Vader; "That is the system. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers preprare your men".
Also love the the pics shown of the new bridge scenes
I think they are changing the emperor scene instead.
adywan said:
Will the TIEs remain like this, or will these change to be more like the grey/white TIEs during the asteroid sequence to better match their ANH counterparts? I know the asteroid clip you put out a bit back was a test, but just throwing this out for a confirmation (personally, I like the consistency with ANH and would go for the grey TIEs for EMPIRE and JEDI, with maybe the Interceptors remaining bluish).
I know this may be redundant, but just double checking.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
