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When did the prequels officially suck? — Page 8

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C3PX said:
rcb said:

the symbolism is religious and i don't want to offend someone.

Holy shit man, we are not that PC around here! How unbelievably worthless is the world we are living in becoming!!! If you offend someone by explaining the symbolism in ROTS on a public forum, then quite honestly, the offended party needs to get a life.

 

 

 good point!

well, the mustafar battle was sybolizing anakins soul falling into hell and how all that remained in his life, to him anyway, was pain and suffering. in other words, the planet is supposed to represent hell.

that's why it was chosen so it would show how anakin's soul fell into hell.

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They officially sucked when I went to the theater and saw TPM. I thought it was aweful then and was dissapointed. Then when I saw AOTC I gave up on any of the movies.

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 (Edited)

Yeah it is really depressing equally what has happened to star wars and to George Lucas.

I am reading the making of star wars book again and George was such a genious when he made those student films, then thx 1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars.  If you read the book it was the making of the first star wars film that really burned him out.  Its no wonder he never wanted to direct another film again at the time.  It is also ironic that the compromises he had to make in making that film utimetely made it a better movie.  As some of the more far out and rediculous ideas that were scrapped made it into the prequels.

The Special edition in 1997 essential proves my point that when George finally had the budget to finish the films to his liking the movie was worse not better.  Cosmetic changes are one thing, like wanting the spaceship to move as he had always wanted them to do.  Adding comical and cartoon like characters who did not belong in the film is another.  The Jabba scene was redundant and not needed when the greedo dialogue was changed because Jabba would no longer be in the film.  If they Went back to the old greedo dialogue from the rough cut it still is not a necessary scene in fact it weakens the strength of the Jabba character who is too big of a crime lord to deal with solo personally and would send one of his henchmen like greedo.

It is even funnier when modern day Lucas is contradicted by His own words in the seventies in the same book about Lukes Father.  It is clear Vader and him were seperate characters and Lucas never started out with Vader as the father.

Leia split off from the Luke character and so did Han Solo according to the book.

So Did later on Lucas combine father skywalker with Vader because it was more dramatic?

Because when that scene in Ben's hutt was shot in 1977 he was not lying to Luke when He said "Vader betrayed and murdered" his father. 

In the very small lucas talks about verbally Luke's father is the pure White Knight, and Vader is the Black Evil character. They fight on a over a molten pit and vader falls into a volcano or something like that.

At what point did the Kenobi character replace Skywalker vs Vader in that fight or did all three Jedi fight on whatever the prototype of Mustafar was.

I know in the Return of the Jedi script it was known as Had Abbadon until it was jettisoned and the duel ended up on the death star between Luke and Vader.

The Lava planet and the imperial homeworld where one and the same.  Very different than coruscant.  Can you imagine the Jedi temple being on a world that is basically the embodyment of hell.

But the concept of a jedi temple, padawan's and midiclorians was created during episode 1.

For years the EU idea was like a mobile Jedi Fleet or something where is was all distance learning and that non Canon holocrons thing.   The first time there ever was a jedi temple was during the Kevin Anderson jedi academy trilogy when the old rebel base on yavin was converted to the skywalker academy for jedi.

George even borrowed the double bladed Lightsaber concept kevin created for exar kun on the sith war comics.  Except because Kun was not a sith at the time his saber was not red, that was george's idea to make maul's red.

Coruscant was created by Timothy Zahn as the name for the imperial homeworld.

A lot of things from the Eu became canon when Lucas borrowed them for his prequel films.

Like Jedi characters created for comics like Aayla Secura and Quinlon Vos. 

Fans wanted him to add Mara Jade into Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi to Canonize the character.  I am glad he did'nt because he would have ruined the character, the same for not digitally Inserting Grand Admiral Thrawn like fans wanted so Lucas could base episodes 7-9 on Zahn's books.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)
rcb said:
rcb said:
Vaderisnothayden said:
rcb said:
Vaderisnothayden said:
rcb said:
Vaderisnothayden said:
rcb said:
Vaderisnothayden said:
rcb said:

however, she said she just remembered images and feelings. and obviously was told by her adoptive parents, her mother died when she was young.

 

It was clear from what she said that she remembered her mother. And she said her mother died when she was young but she didn't say "My mother died when I was newborn." She clearly meant later.

 

well, u can just take the line, "she died when i was very young" that would work.

 

 

What do you mean take the line? Take out the line? Why should a classic's story be changed to suit later inferior spinoff films? Why don't we just take out Padme's death scene? That's the thing that obviously shouldn't have been put in.


 i meant take that line out.

and no, padme should die, otherwise u'd have even more gaps. questions would pop up saying, "did she marry bail?" "how did she die?" and so on. whether u like it or not, it stays.

 

It's much more appropriate to delay Padme's death to years later, in keeping with the established story. They can end the film some years after the main events if they like, to include her death.

Taking out a line from a classic film to fit in with a crap spinoff film is an obscene idea.

yes there are flaws. but still they blew me away. the music, action, and storytelling, aside from the romance, really delivered.

The action was tedious, the music was overdone, the storytelling was crap. In two of those films there was very little apart from flaws.

AxiaEuxine said:

no, not denial. I love the prequels, sorry they didnt fullfill your expectations but I love them.

I find it little hard to believe that anybody could love AOTC and ROTS. What is there to love? There's no heart or soul in those films.

on the music, ur saying that john williams sucked then right?

 

I'm saying the choice of music for various scenes had them giving scenes music that was overdone for the scenes. Like the way overdone music for the lava fight. Stuff like that was really annoying.

 

how was it annoying? it fit the scene well. where would u have had them fight?

 

do u pay any attention to the symbolism in the movie? there was a reason mustafar was chosen for the final battle. read a book for god's sake!

 

Again, I never said anything whatsoever about WHERE they fought. I never objected to where they fought. I objected to the music and the overdone nature of the scene. Read my posts "for god's sake" before you give out to me over them.

 

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Don't feel bad vaderisnothayden there will always be those who like the prequels despite the fact that they sucked, and you will never be able to convince them otherwise.  Trying to convince them that the only real star wars is the original trilogy from 1977-1983 is a losing battle.

This site used to be a bashers santuary, a place where peoples voices of displeasure could be heard on the original movies being buried and other films preservations.

Now it is a fanedit board and prequel and special edition lovers hang out and most of the old members no longer post here and the preservation or trying to get the originals released in the best quality is now mostly dead.

It is as if those people from the offcial lucas site boards and tfn invaded and took over.

Its still Jay's site and he allows a multiplicity of views, people don't get banned for liking the prequels or special editions.  But after all this site is dedicated to the original star wars trilogy from 1977-1983 or it would be specialeditions.com or prequeltrilogylovers.com or such place.

Now it has become the place to get better special editions than george lucas is capable of producing instead of a petition to get the originals restored on dvd or blu ray.  Even the X0 project has had no updates since 2006.

Well i've been told by people on this board that star wars is no longer made for me because i am too old, they said the same thing in the star trek jj abrams thread.  I am only 30 years old.  If that is considered being too old these days then i say fuck those who only make films for the teeny bopper crowd.  My Likes and interests have not changed.  People saying " oh you grew up and star wars is still the same" is bullshit star wars and george lucas changed.  I still can watch the original films and i enjoy them as well as i did when i was 9 years old. 

I wish people would cut the crap with trying to make up bad excuses for why the originals sucked and why the prequels are so much better, when they clealry are inferior films to all but the blind.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Now it is a fanedit board and prequel and special edition lovers hang out and most of the old members no longer post here and the preservation or trying to get the originals released in the best quality is now mostly dead.

 

 so would you prefer it if all the preservations were 'dead'?

what about all those people that are still working on them?

should we just give up like you have too?......

 

yeah go ahead and keep complaining, some of us are actually

still working on restorations whether you think we're dead or you

don't feel like any progress is being made..

 

i'm sorry, but the original trilogy is not enough for me, i care

way too much about star wars, and i want MORE, more of the prequels,

more of the 'clone war's', more of everything related to star wars..

it gives me something to look forward too, instead of being stuck in

the past..

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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That's fine for you, but out of all the star wars-related places on the internet why go to...ORIGINAL TRILOGY.com to deliver these lectures? Maybe next you could go to a Beatles forum and hassle people about not liking Wings enough.

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negative1 said:

i'm sorry, but the original trilogy is not enough for me, i care

way too much about star wars, and i want MORE, more of the prequels,

more of the 'clone war's', more of everything related to star wars..

it gives me something to look forward too, instead of being stuck in

the past..

 

later

-1

Dude, people like you are the reason I stop posting here on this site, because you can't understand that there are just fans of the OOT and thats it.

I respect that there are fans that like the PT, SE, and EU stuff, and that is cool with me, but the name of the site is originaltrilogy.com, not StarWars.com, nor TheForce.net, the kind of explains the fanbase and the purpose.  Now I do think it is cool that the site expanded so there are sections that deal with new fanedits, and there will always be topics to discuss things about anything in the SW universe.  But understand, the reason this place was created was because we the fans, wanted the OOT on DVD, and we got it, it just came out in shitty quality.   So now the future must be to get the OOT on BluRay fully remastered.  Will it ever happen?  I don't know, but we will always be a voice in Lucas's ear.

Later

 

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"The first time there ever was a jedi temple was during the Kevin Anderson jedi academy trilogy when the old rebel base on yavin was converted to the skywalker academy for jedi."

 

I don't believe that was actually a "Jedi Temple", I don't think it was ever called that in Anderson's books. The Jedi academy was set up in the ancient temple ruins on Yavin 4. So the word temple is used quite often in those books, but as far as I have read, it never suggests that Jedi have temples or are suppost to have temples.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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negative1 said:

i'm sorry, but the original trilogy is not enough for me, i care

way too much about star wars, and i want MORE, more of the prequels,

more of the 'clone war's', more of everything related to star wars..

it gives me something to look forward too, instead of being stuck in

the past..

 

later

-1

 

 The thing is we wanted more too--but not if they are going to SUCK. We all wanted the prequels, and what we got was not up to par. We care too much about Star Wars to lower our standards and accept crap (I mean, it was bad enough with ROTJ but every family has the red-headed step-child right?). Everyone likes more Star Wars, but some only want more Star Wars if its good, not if its bad, and not if its "eh, its alright I guess."

But yeah. Originaltrilogy.com dude, what do you expect. I'd rather have 2 really good movies (and one okay movie) than a steady stream of crap coming out all the time because I still watch those 3 older movies , they are so good that they have stood the test of time, just like everyone listens to the White Album even though they've heard it a million times over the last 40 years; what would be the point of the Beatles reforming in 1979 and churning out really bad music, or even just medicore music, when theres the White Album? People would have just ignored the new stuff and continued to revere and listen to the older stuff. I mean honestly, who the hell likes Wings these days anyway? Some devout fans do, of course, and its not like its all bad, but theres a reason why 90% of people continue to simply listen to the old stuff, and the same goes for Star Wars. The OT is among the most important filmic achievements of the 20th century and the PT really only amounts to a footnote to it.

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 (Edited)

great points everyone..

it would be interesting to see this site, i think..

if IT WAS ONLY OT topics/talk only..

and just ban all talk of PT, EU, clone wars, etc...

guess what, this thread wouldn't even exist, right????????????????

 

i wonder how well that would work out?

would it get really, really quiet?

hmmmmmm....

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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zombie84 said:
negative1 said:

i'm sorry, but the original trilogy is not enough for me, i care

way too much about star wars, and i want MORE, more of the prequels,

more of the 'clone war's', more of everything related to star wars..

it gives me something to look forward too, instead of being stuck in

the past..

 

later

-1

 

 The thing is we wanted more too--but not if they are going to SUCK. We all wanted the prequels, and what we got was not up to par. We care too much about Star Wars to lower our standards and accept crap (I mean, it was bad enough with ROTJ but every family has the red-headed step-child right?). Everyone likes more Star Wars, but some only want more Star Wars if its good, not if its bad, and not if its "eh, its alright I guess."

 

 

 wat the hell do you mean by "every family has the red-headed step-child?

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skyjedi2005 said:

Well i've been told by people on this board that star wars is no longer made for me because i am too old, they said the same thing in the star trek jj abrams thread.  I am only 30 years old.  If that is considered being too old these days then i say fuck those who only make films for the teeny bopper crowd.  My Likes and interests have not changed.  People saying " oh you grew up and star wars is still the same" is bullshit star wars and george lucas changed.  I still can watch the original films and i enjoy them as well as i did when i was 9 years old. 

I wish people would cut the crap with trying to make up bad excuses for why the originals sucked and why the prequels are so much better, when they clealry are inferior films to all but the blind.

Yeah, I hate the "You've grown up but Star Wars has stayed the same and was always for kids" excuse. The original Star Wars was made for both adults and kids. It wasn't dumbed down or made to be impossible for adults to take. Star Wars has changed. George Lucas has changed.

 

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 (Edited)

For myself, it was the realisation that where the original trilogy had been epic but 'child-like', the prequels were overblown and needlessly too 'childish' in places.

That, and the suspect new designs in certain areas...and the eye-rolling line delivery in places...

Still, cannot wait to see what Adywan will do with them eventually!  A new hope indeed...  :)

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rcb said:

 wat the hell do you mean by "every family has the red-headed step-child?

Apparently some people in the UK have irrational traditions that dislike people with red hair. I'm guessing the figure of speech that Zombie picked up came from people with that attitude (maybe Zombie was watching British people speak?).

As an American I found that anti-red-head attitude very weird. I have a younger brother who has red hair and he's as normal as can be. Oh well. Hehe, strange world.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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 (Edited)

It doesn't really have anything to do with people from the UK, or some irrational dislike of redheaded people they might have. Zombie is from Canada I believe (could be mistaken), and I have heard people in the states use that expression my entire life. It isn't intended to suggest that red headed people are weird or anything, it means the exact same thing as the term "black sheep" the one that doesn't quite fit in, looks differently from the rest, etc. i.e. a family has four kids, three with brown hair, but the oldest child from a previous marriage has red hair and looks different from the others. There are no anti-redhead sentiments here.

To answer rcb's original question, Zombie meant that Return of the Jedi is not anywhere near as good as the first two films, but it is acceptable.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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It's a really common figure of speech (in the U.S.).

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C3PX said:

To answer rcb's original question, Zombie meant that Return of the Jedi is not anywhere near as good as the first two films, but it is acceptable.

Except that it's perfectly as good as the other two films.

 

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Vaderisnothayden said:
C3PX said:

To answer rcb's original question, Zombie meant that Return of the Jedi is not anywhere near as good as the first two films, but it is acceptable.

Except that it's perfectly as good as the other two films.

 

Yeah, I'm more forgiving of ROTJ, too. There really isn't anything about it that I don't like. I understand some of the criticisms- but none of the things people usually criticize are particularly bothersome to me. 

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Like I said in my other thread, the usual ROTJ criticisms don't bother me either, but I still find it inferior.  Even when I first saw it as a kid, it just didn't have the spark the other two did.  Star Wars was amazing and exciting, Empire built up the excitement even more... and ROTJ just felt like an obligation to find out what happened at the end.  It wasn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, but it just didn't provide the same emotional kick in the pants the others did.  A total of about half an hour of the movie did, but the rest just sorta fell flat, especially after Empire brought things up to such a high level.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I still remember the review in Cinescape magazine by Mark Altman where he said that Return of the Jedi was a rehash of star wars.  He also in the same film review said The Last Crusade was a rehash of raiders of the lost ark.

Basically Empire Strikes Back was an original film that stood on its own, and was as much for adults as for kids.  As a grown up man jedi does not engage me like it did as a child, there are a couple fine scenes in the movie and a few fun ones too.  Just not as original as star wars, or As Epic as Empire strikes back.  Jedi Failed to build upon what Kershner, Kurtz and Kasden, and Lucas had created as a collaborative effort.

You had an awesome and daring dark second half of the trilogy with good character drama, and then you end it all with a film where Han Solo basically stands around for a whole film with no story potential and end it with a teddy bear picnic,lol.

Jedi succeeds like star wars as a swashbuckling adventure, but empire basically makes those films look silly.

A reason why i am sure Lucas hates empire, as he has said it is the worst film in the saga.

When it is obvious to all critics whose opinions matter that The Empire Strikes Back is the finest of all six films.

Jedi might be the least of the original trilogy but it is a hundred times better than the lackluster prequels.

On Jedi is where the yes men thing started and George was going to do things his own way.  Kasden told him having another death star was a bad idea and not original, lucas did not listen.

I guess we should be glad the 2 death stars idea was dropped early on.

The third film basically tied everything up, lucas took 4 films and compressed them into one.  The emperor and luke becoming a jedi would have had been in the later films.  as well as him discovering his sister who was not leia.  The third film would have had Luke confront vader and defeat him, of course at this time it was already decided that Vader was indeed Lukes father.  Luke would confront the emperor later on in another film.   Leia became the sister in jedi out of necessity to tie everything up.  Han Solo ends up with her of course, but in 1978 it just as easily could have been Luke who was not her brother.

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I never thought they fully sucked, just had alot of bad things. With all the fanedits of them, I'd say ADigitalMan's edits of them make them worth watching and make them a much better movie, and can't wait until Adywan tackles them.


And I thought that, as a whole, The Phantom Menace was the best of the prequels, with alot of small things dragging it down. 

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Jedi's got problems but it gets by on charm, and these days I'm glad the trilogy ended very simply (or simplistically if you want to be a hardnose about it). Especially now that I've seen other trilogies (Matrix, Pirates, etc.) totally disappear up their own ass in part 3.