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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 195

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adywan said:


 The At-At's were only sent down to knock out the shield generator. They weren't sent to wipe out the rebels at all. The original assault was from the Stardestroyers and was supposed to be a surprise attack. The Empire is quite cocky about their superiority over the rebels so i really don't think they would have sent a whole attack force down there just to destroy a shield. The Stardestroyers became a blockade and they were confident that they could stop all the escaping rebel ships.

 

Thanks for your latest interesting comments.  Once again, you've given a very logical reasoning to these particular sequence of events.  Good stuff.  5 AT-AT's (and possibly the AT-ST still) it is then, but with extra 'oomph'.

Sorry to hear that the odd Yoda eyeblink doesn't seem to be working out, but never mind.

And hopefully you can get as talented a collaborator as Will Martin was.  Fingers crossed.

 

   

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RE the new Yoda tweaks - here's my observations (which I wrote as I watched it the first time):

1 - It looks a LITTLE too Photoshop-smear-ish - you need to try to tweak the mouth without moving the teeth as well.  One or two tweaks morph his teeth a little as well and make it look too fake.

2 - When yoda says "Looked away," it's PERFECT.

3 - When he says "F" or "V" syllables, see if you can make his lower lip behave the way it really would (go inward a bit) - that part still looks a little puppet-y

4 - "What he was doing!" also nearly perfect.

Overall, it's pretty good.  I've always thought that Yoda in this scene looked a little stoned - maybe something could be done about the eyes?

I think if you do one or two more passes on this it'll be perfect.  It's close, and there are several instances where it IS 100% perfect, but it's not quite there yet.

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Amazing. I'm speechless. A little work and it will be perfect

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that is so much cooler. i've never had  problem originally, but man, he actually looks like he's saying wat he's saying. i want more!!!!

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One word: That was very, very nice! :) Subtle is the way to go and subtle it was. I really liked it, even though I read some 'not competely on the Yoda mouth movement train' comments before watching it and wondered how it would look.

As for the eyes, they don't need anything. He's supposed to look serene, and that he does.

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I agree with ChainsawAsh about Yoda's eyes in this scene, and I think that's the cause of some others' comments that they should be more animated. The mouth work is 95% perfect (the other 5% is mostly what CA said about his teeth).

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Now this is specifically what I was MOST looking forward too. The Yoda touch-ups!

 

So far........EXCELLENT!

 

I'm not really seeing any problem with any of your added mouth movements. They are spot on....in fact they are looking better than what I recall seeing from the PT's CG Yoda.

The only thing I might suggest (as others have) is perhaps a few subtle blinks or eye movements here and there.

I'm also wondering have you tried slightly tweaking his face a bit more (ie very subtle cheek, brow, forehead movement?) I think doing so might help complement the fine work you have already done with the mouth in that the rest of Yoda's face wont stand out as static.

I know you are not going for the full PT CG Yoda look (thankfully, lol) but I think by tweaking the eyes and perhaps a teeny bit more it might all blend together better.

Just something to think about maybe trying.

 

Awesome work so far AdY.

 

Happy new Year bTW AdY & everyone!

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At first I wasn't sure about the Yoda changes, based on a quick glance at the youtube version. Then I downloaded the avi file and watched it a few times. In the end I agree with the others that it is a very nice idea, and it's almost there. There are just a few spots that look more photoshopped than natural. Fix those and I think it will work fine.

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Ok well i have tweaked Yoda a little bit more. If i do any more then its going to become overdone. As for the teeth moving with the mouth then when i was doing the mouth i cut away the inside of the mouth and the teeth are as in the original with nothing done to them so if they move then they did originally and it has nothing to do with my tweaks.

Can anyone that uploaded the old clip to youtube please delete the old clip and replace it with this one. Thanks

FINAL YODA TWEAKED

YOUTUBE VERSION (but i would recommend the downloadable version above due to better quality)

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Awesome, Ady you plan on having the Tauntauns ears twitching a bit? Someone suggested it, and I think it would work well, being so many animals move their ears.

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Re: AT-ATs

I will respect the final decision and leave it at that.  Again, this will be something I will work on myself.

Re: puppet modification

The thing that gives puppets away the most are the extremities: rubbery, squishy fingers; dead eyes; stiff or rubbery body parts.  In the Yoda mod clip, you may want to tone down the ear wobble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPd5lyi_6Tw - example at 0:12 mark and 0:42 to 0:50.  This is different from the conscious ear movements to denote emotion as seen on 0:19 to 0:21) and keep an eye on his fingers to make sure they don't do that "bending backwards" thing rubber gloves on a "man in a suit" usually do.

re: Taun-Tauns

The ear thing may not work, but some things just to think about:
(1) if you can't include the quick "ear flick" that horses are known to do (here's a rough example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8lQzdXNjI), is there any way to have the ears prick up right before the Wampa attacks?  No long amount of movement, just the ears facing forward?




(2) being a beast of burden, how would the Taun-Taun look if the eyes were more like a horse (all black) as opposed to having human eyes?  At the least, is there any way to give a gloss layer over the eyes to indicate moisture?  The eyes look a little plastic.





maybe have the Taun-Taun eyes open up larger to show fright on the creature's face:



Could also consider darkening the area around the eye per the images above as reference:



You could also consider moding the nose to have it snort or breath.  Anything to indicate it is a living thing and not a puppet head.

re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzHsO92Cljw&feature=PlayList&p=4DB0EA9A58709519&playnext=1&index=10

you could add a quick .5 to 1 second ear flick between 1:10 and 1:15, or between 1:23 and 1:35; could put in a quick eye blink or two between 1:49 and 1:51. 

Again, just suggestions.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

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RoccondilRinon said:

I think the highest compliment I can give is that it was not until the third viewing that I noticed he was blinking.

I only notice the blink once.  It looks great, Ady.  Are there any plans to try and modify Yoda's lazy eye?

 

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adywan said:

the ear wobbling was done deliberately at the time of filming as it had a mechanism built into the puppet to make the ears do that so it doesn't need to be changed. I'm keeping an eye on the hands but there isn't much i can do about those.

I am referring to the ears wobbling due to the bouncing of the Yoda puppet as it is being moved.  Again, per my previous post, it is a different movement from the deliberate movement as listed when the FX operators are having Yoda's ears move to show emotion (like when they perk up or level out due to what Yoda is saying).  Note that when Yoda's ears move deliberatley due to emotion the movement is smooth, as opposed to the rubber ear wobble which is fast and not reactive to what is happening on screen other than the movement of the puppet itself.  Also note that the mechanism in the ears was within the base of the ears, not the tips; it is the Ear Tips that waggle when he moves, not the base, which moves the entire ears (from 50 to 100%) to express emotion.

Even, then, it is not natural that a living thing has wobbly ears, being that I do not know any human or mammal whose ears wobble when they move.

The ear wobble is something that has affected most if not all puppets and animatronic figures throughout the 80's simply due to the ears or other small or thin parts not having the same structure or rigidity as flesh-and-blood ears, thus when said creature moves the momentum causes vibrations and thus movements in the neck and ears.

All you have to do is watch the link above and compare the time markers I listed.  The movements are noticeably different.  In fact, compare 0:12 to 0:22 to 0:24.  When Yoda first turns around the ears are wobbling at the tips.  In the second time marker, the ears are more stable at the ends.

 

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

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It looks absolutely fantastic now.  I don't know if you did any modifications to the mouth movement, but I noticed none of the things I mentioned before, and the eyes are perfect.  Fantastic job, Ady!

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Monroville said:





You could also consider moding the nose to have it snort or breath.  Anything to indicate it is a living thing and not a puppet head.

It already breaths. you can clearly see the Taun Tauns breath coming from its mouth in the movie. It wouldn't breath from its nose while its mouth is open

Monroville said:

All you have to do is watch the link above and compare the time markers I listed.  The movements are noticeably different.

I already have done that before i replied to you last time. the ear wobble is not due to movement. The ears have a skeletal like rod in the upper part of the ear extending from the skull to the tip of the ear. This creates the movement and also the vibrating wobble. The ears aren't just rubber like most puppets are. if you look at the shot where he turns around at the beginning of the clip you can see that the ear vibrates. if it was a wobble due to the rubber it would have not have continued the vibrating motion for so long after the puppet turned.

 

 

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adywan said:
Monroville said:





You could also consider moding the nose to have it snort or breath.  Anything to indicate it is a living thing and not a puppet head.

It already breaths. you can clearly see the Taun Tauns breath coming from its mouth in the movie. It wouldn't breath from its nose while its mouth is open

 

Okey-doke: this is it for me.  (1): the taun-taun has a nose.  Breath may come out the mouth, but most animals breath IN through the nose.  Again, see horse for example.  If the thing isn't using it's nose, then why not CGI the nose out?

Monroville said:

All you have to do is watch the link above and compare the time markers I listed.  The movements are noticeably different.

I already have done that before i replied to you last time. the ear wobble is not due to movement. The ears have a skeletal like rod in the upper part of the ear extending from the skull to the tip of the ear. This creates the movement and also the vibrating wobble. The ears aren't just rubber like most puppets are. if you look at the shot where he turns around at the beginning of the clip you can see that the ear vibrates. if it was a wobble due to the rubber it would have not have continued the vibrating motion for so long after the puppet turned.

I understand the mechanics.  Rubber wobbles and the head IS made from rubber or something kin to it.  EMPIRE was made in 1979 and the advances in suits and artificial creations were nowhere near as advanced as they are today.  Even so, even the most current Batman suit was mostly rubber (be it the Burton or even Nolan films).  For another example at the wobbliness of rubber, check out the end of BATMAN FOREVER, with the Val Kilmer ear wobble as he runs to the camera with the spotlight behind him.  The head piece was 100% rubber.

I've seen it in a million movies from the 50's to even some today.   Yes, rubber would continue the momentum being that rubber has no rigidity to it at all.  The rod in the upper length of the ear may not have run the entire length, again due to 80's technology (being that the ear tips are possibly too small for the mechanical rod to extend all the way).  Also notice that the ear tip wobble only encompasses maybe a 2 to 3 inch area at the extreme end.

And yes, the ear movement that I describe is due to the movement of the Yoda puppet (either that or Yoda has some nerve issues) - he IS 900 years old and all).  The wobble I describe only happens when the puppet is turning or moving, not stationary.

Regardless, this is wearing me out.  This is your thing and do what you will.  In the end, it all comes down to being proactive with your desires, and this will be something else I'll work on for myself.

 

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

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Monroville said:

Even, then, it is not natural that a living thing has wobbly ears, being that I do not know any human or mammal whose ears wobble when they move.

 I guess creatures like Yoda could evolve differently in galaxies far, far, away...  ;)

But seriously, I know what you mean with the slight 'vibration' thing, but considering what Adywan's now done with his latest tweaks, I personally think this is no biggie anymore.  It's perhaps a pity that this hadn't been implemented into the CGI Yoda ears in the prequels, even, to tie it in with the wonderful OT version better.   

By the way Monroville, you had some interesting comments on the whole Tauntaun eyes / ears / nose thing there, but unlike the production photo shown above, the actual footage only seems to have the briefest, moving glimpses of the likes of the nostrils, so it's none too obvious.  And although a lot of it is a moot point now, I liked reading some of your recent AT-AT battle 'what if' ideas too.

Anyway, the main thing I want to say is -  THE YODA 'PUPPET' BLINKS AT LAST!!

Wonderful, and more than once at that, during the latest clip.  Thankyou very much Adywan, as this has been a great start to the New Year where your project is concerned.  The subtlety of where you positioned them is perfect, and doesn't detract from the look of the excellent OT Yoda one bit. 

There's just one other place I'd have liked to have seen just one more in your scene, and that is at some point during when he walks sideways to our viewpoint, as he says "...for 800 years have I trained Jedi...my own council will I keep on who is to be trained."   However, this has turned out more than I could have wished for, and I imagine that there will be other subtle ones in some of his others scenes too, in future.  :)   Excellent stuff.  

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ImperialFighter said:
.... It's perhaps a pity that this hadn't been implemented into the CGI Yoda ears in the prequels, even, to tie it in with the wonderful OT version better.   

 

From what little i can remember from the Special Features of the AotC's DVD they did 

 

@ ADY

 

HOLY FLERKIN SHNIT!?!?!?!!

 

Dude that clip was awesome !

 

Yoda really came alive (especially at the end)

Bingowings said: Do you want to see the project finished as a playable film or a flick book?