Abrams is Destroying Star Trek like Lucas has Destroyed Star Wars — Page 10

I'd actually rank Insurrection as my favorite TNG era ST flick. I really liked First Contact, but sky is right, it is a heavy action flick. Insurrection felt a lot more like a really good multi part episode of TNG.

skyjedi2005 said:

Hey thats not fair to say that at all about me, i liked Insurrection sure it was not as sucessful as first contact but insurrection felt like real star trek and first contact was a action flick.

Hmm, I could have sworn you said Insurrection was bad in an earlier post. Sorry if I was incorrect there. I know some other people (perhaps in another thread) also said they had issues with the movie. I remember Anchorhead saying he disliked it a lot. Oh well.

I'm glad at least two other people here like the movie. It's actually my favorite after Wrath of Khan. As for First Contact, it's perfect to describe it as an action flick. That's not to say I don't like First Contact a lot (action movies are cool after all), but I think it really misses the point of Star Trek.

Hunter6 said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Hunter6 said:

It is like the makers of this Film need Film-making 101.

And obviously you don't which is why they asked you to direct the new Trek and all those other great films you've done.

 

I have taking Film, CGI animation and photo classes in collage. Both me and my wife work in media and know allot about it.

Having glare in mostly every shot is a no-no in film-making.

also having over blur in every shot of CGI animation is no-no in CGI animation.

You,"Yoda Is Your Father" don't know what you are talking about or to who.

the Hollywood of today is not about the art of film-making, but is really about who is your Family is or you are sleeping with or who you know. the real Hollywood is not like the fake Hollywood show on shows in E.T.

 

Actually I have a batchelors degree in Animation and, until moving into advertising, I worked for a huge vfx company in London. Troy, Harry Potter, Batman Begins, Narnia, V for Vendetta, Hitchhiker's Guide, Casino Royale, The Golden Compass = just a few of the films I have worked on.

So... er... I do know what I'm talking about.  I just don't hate films before I've seen them nor do I think I'm better than everybody else who is actually out there doing it.

Hey i am a fan of ILM as much as i hate what Lucas has done to star wars and indiana jones.

I generally enjoyed those dumb pirates of the carribean films and the work they put into them, I even have john knoll's star wars book,lol.

I will totally eat up the visual eye candie and i am dying to get my hands on the eventrual trek issues of cinefex and american cinematographer 2 of my fave magazines.

The cinefex issue for the first trek film goes for a lot of money, and unlike the star wars  fans i don't think there is someone scanning these issues and digitally preserving them.  If someone would do what starwarsachives did,  for Indiana Jones and Star Trek i would be so totally happy.

I think someone on these boards was it digitalfreaknyc said that maybe someday he would put out the Indiana Jones articles.  Then nothing came of it which is unfortunate. 

Well here i go off topic again,lol.

By the way despite all the changes to the characters, their histories and the Canon their is no way the new Trek film can ever be as bad as nemesis.  The effects on that movie were poorly done in comparison to what ILM had done on first contact.  ILM should have been used on Insurrection and Nemesis, I think they even built a model for first contact's enterprise E even though most of the work by then was cgi.

The enterprise attacking the borg cube at the beginning of the film was just a wonder to behold in theaters.

Too bad we won't get a real sendoff for the tng crew like the original series crew did at the end of trek VI.

TNG went out with a wimper and not with a Bang.  Not even the reflective somberness of VI.

Stewart was so totally not pleased with Nemesis that he vowed from what i read to never play Captain Picard again. Only Brent Spiner was at the time looking forward to a sequel to nemesis as he had an idea for an 11th movie where data comes back in the form of b4.  Such a bad idea to first rip off wrath of khan then rip off the search for spock.

Patrick Stewart decided to Put Trek behind him and be Professor Charles Xavier in the X-men franchise.

Now even that is a gone by thing.

skyjedi2005 said:

The cinefex issue for the first trek film goes for a lot of money, and unlike the star wars  fans i don't think there is someone scanning these issues and digitally preserving them. 

 

http://www.cinefex.com/backissues/issue1.html

Cinefex has that issue (and other ones) for sale (in B&W photocopy form) for $7.50

I think a big reason it goes for lots of money (for the original) is that it is issue #1 of Cinefex.

RE: Abrams is Destroying Star Trek like Lucas has Destroyed Star Wars

No way, Rick Berman destroyed Star Trek YEARS ago people. The Trek that people knew is dead, dead, dead never to return. Unplug your brain about what you know about Trek, its the only way you'll enjoy this movie.

And Lucas did not destroy Star Wars

Ben Burrt is sound designer on the new jj trek film that comes out in 2009, beginning to sound more and more like star wars and less like trek.  Its like old home week for the prequels.  You got a movie made entirely on hd video, which effects are all computer created.  You have Ryan Church as a visual design person, ILM as the effects crew, and ben burtt as the sound designer.

That is pretty much everybody but John Williams and George Lucas,lol.

Did you guys see this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fu656gGkhI

I hope "get your ass up here, big boy"  is only indicative of comic book cheese and is not the level of dialogue associated with the film.  After the cringe worthy dialogue in Transformers consider me worried.

Besides the trailer with scotty " i like this ship it is exciting"  With the bad parody of Jimmy Doohan as spoken by Pegg.

Well at least Pine is not going to do Shatner Parody, I hope.

Why do the Romulans and Klingons in some of the Star Trek films speak English they are Aliens, it should be alien dialogue with Translated text.

Only bad sci fi has the aliens speak English, even on Earth not everyone speaks English as their language.

It is like that halo game where the aliens speak English, and i lol at that.  We have hundreds of distinct languages on earth but aliens from a faraway galaxy speak the same tongue as Americans.

The IDW Star Trek comics don't always have the best art, Star Wars comics by Dark Horse are better by far.

Still even with Dark Horse the cover art is always stunning and then the comics art is crap in comparison.  They spend big money to have an artist with a big name paint the covers or draw them, and then they rush the interior art so they can get the book out on time.

You know what is a major failing these days not just for dvd cover art but comic cover art as well when they do cheap photoshop jobs digitally in a computer.  I like the illustrative arts. Sure you can't always have a Dave Dorman, Drew Struzan, or Hugh Fleming.  But The masters of the genre were Hal Foster and Alex Raymond, anyone who evokes that high level of illustration i like their work.  Al Williamson at his best came close to Raymond, this was imho during his days Pencilling Secret Agent Corrigan (better known as X-9) and Star Wars.

The New Trek comic is hardly the worst art i have ever seen come out of a star trek comic book and neither is it the best.  It is middle of the road at least to me.  Who knows what the panels look liked before they were digitally inked and colored.  I think they look overly bright and garish like a christmas tree, which is the same thing i thought about the movies video game colors.

These Romulan characters are worlds away from the type as Played by Mark Leonard in that famous episode of the original series.  They are closer to how the next generation got them wrong on the tng television show, or the worst design ever Nemesis.  Romulans are supposed to be identical to Vulcans except they are savage and emotional and warriors.  Vulcans are ambassadors and peacemakers, very  monk like quiet and reflective, they are centered and Logical.

The irony is that if you want to make a star wars reference the Romulans are like the Sith, and the Vulcans are like the jedi.

skyjedi2005 said:

Why do the Romulans and Klingons in some of the Star Trek films speak English they are Aliens, it should be alien dialogue with Translated text.

Only bad sci fi has the aliens speak English, even on Earth not everyone speaks English as their language

Obviously they do it to decomplicate things, coming up with alien languages, getting actors to speak them, remaining consistent, and having an extra character around to translate everytime a conversation is to take place between a human and an alien is a lot more difficult than just having everyone speak English.

Trek has at least tried to explain this away by using the in universe explanation of the universal translator, a device that translates everything in real time to the listeners language. For any H2G2 fans out there, basically a non biological version of the babelfish. Though ST has never remained consistent with this, as sometimes we will see Klingons speaking with subtitles and English speakers not understanding them, when clearly their translation device should be translating for them. ST:Enterprise focused much more on the linguistic aspects and dealt more with translations since the universal translator was not invented yet, or at least was not technology the humans possessed. I have not seen it myself, but I heard that there is an episode of DS9 where Quark and his family go back in time and crash in Rosewell, New Mexico, it is explained that because their translator is broken or because the humans don't have translators, or something along those lines, that the humans only hear gibberish when the Ferangi speak to them. Yeah, DS9 is known for some pretty over the top retarded episodes, but it is a citation of an episode that explains the translators at least.

I don't get what the deal is.  Aliens in Star Trek spoke English all the time.  The Klingon language wasn't heard until TMP and wasn't fully developed until ST3.  Even then, the aliens spoke English whenever it was convenient.  Am I to assume that a universal translator was in play in every instance?  The only time I can think of where the reality was "fudged" for the audience in terms of language was the court room scene in ST6 where it makes it clear that a translator is being used before breaking out the "English."  Not to mention that most aliens in Star Wars spoke English as well.  It's just one of those things we accept because it's too hard to deal with every new race speaking its own language and having to deal with those barriers.

I'd rather have aliens speaking English, than read subtitles all the time, like in foreign films - If I wanted to read for two hours, I wouldn't be watching a movie!

Well... I can't really agree with that either.  I've never understood the reasoning behind not liking to watch foreign films simply because you have to read subtitles.  I just... I don't know.

Well...if I have my eyes glued to the bottom of the screen reading everything, I don't have any time to actually pay attention to what's going on in the movie.

I rather enjoy watching foreign films with subtitles, can't stand dubs! Much rather have it in its original language with subtitles any day of the week. However, I'd see little point in watching an English film where I have to read subtitles to a fake alien language. To some degree it adds a hint of realism I suppose, but for a sci-fi show/movie I find the instant translator sort of thing to be more than adequate for explaining away the fact that everyone speaks English as spoken by Americans many hundreds of years ago (in the case of ST). Star Wars was kind of unique in having aliens speak alien languages with English subtitles, but I still feel that it is rather awkward for two fellows to be speaking to each other and having a fluid conversation while speaking two very different languages. Last time I mentioned this some others piped up and said that it was not only perfectly plausible, but that it is not entirely uncommon. I guess they are right enough, but still just doesn't quite feel right to me.

I am guessing Nightwatch is an anime? I was refering mostly to actual foreign films with live actors, no matter how good of a dub it is, it is nothing like the real thing. I feel the acting is an important part of the movie, and when I am watching a dub, I am not hearing the original actors preformance.

I really don't watch any animes or any other foreign cartoons, so I don't really know how I feel about dubs on them.

I believe Nightwatch & it's sequel Daywatch were both Russian films about Vampires.

And I recomend City of God to those who haven't seen it. That's probably the best foreign Subtitled film I've seen in a while.

One of the best moments of humor in "Star Trek VI" was when the crew of the Enterprise had to answer a Klingon guard outpost in Klingonese, because the universal translator would be recognized.  And another great moment in the film series was in "The Wrath of Khan", when Saavik and Spock have a little personal conversation in their native Vulcan about Kirk being "So Human" . 

FanFiltration said:

One of the best moments of humor in "Star Trek VI" was when the crew of the Enterprise had to answer a Klingon guard outpost in Klingonese, because the universal translator would be recognized. 

Yeah, I laugh out loud every time I see that.  Too bad Nichelle Nichols did it under such duress.  I read she didn't like the idea because she felt the communications operator should know the language of their chief enemy.