Darth Yub Nub said:You said you are going to do a final release soon..so is this your final cut ?
No, but this is pretty close. Anyone watching it will notice at least one difficult effect that was obviously not completed. And closer observers will notice a couple. I updated the bottom of the first post, with a list of what still needs to be done before the final cut, which will be released on DVD in 2009.
How much of the campyness did you cut?
Most. As much as I thought was possible. Camp is in the eye of the beholder though. Let me know if you think I didn't do enough. There is definitely some that I wanted to cut, but couldn't find a professional solution to. The one that sticks out most in my mind is the pimp that first sees Superman in costume. I had it cut since my first version 2 1/2 years ago, but reluctantly put it back in this month when I couldn't find a way to cut him out that wasn't jarring.
I liked the tone of Donner cut much better than the original. I think it was the camp in Lester's version that turned me off. Not that there aren't campy moments in Donner's, there was just something about the slapstick attempt at comedy in Lester's that I didn't like.
Most of the slapstick moments in S2 are gone.
I still find the the donner changes disorienting because the
scenes with Brando were so serious. I'm glad they're back in the Donner version and it works better thematically than having his mother but it's remains a very uneven film.
I agree. I feel that removing most of the humor from S2 let me bring back in Brando without it feeling out of place.
I also
thought the explosions, cars crashes and other effects could've been tightened
further.
Done.
The crowd reactions seems wrong. Why were all those people hanging around? They should've been running away or ducking for cover if there's a mid-air fist fight between Superman and the three villains. They just stood around waiting for something to fall on them.
Not to defend Lester's as a director, but the crowd being around does make some sense. This is the reason police feel its necessary to put up barriers. People want to get close to the action. Besides I couldn't really cut them out even if I wanted to.
Faster cuts would've made that work better and seem less silly.
This, I did do. And there is less reaction from the crowd in my version, because someone in the crowd ususally says something stupid, like "Wow, home run!".
I liked it as an alternate glimpse. The BOBW would include a careful edit of both versions. The only problem Lester's version had was that it went from deadly serious to very silly camp.
Part 2 is a very careful edit of S2 and DC. I spent a lot of time thinking through each edit, and have changed my mind over the years. I'd be interested to hear if you think I got it right.
I would also at least look at some scenes cut but used for TV broadcasts, like the PZers killing that kid from a distance. But it would prolly look even worse than the cellophane S.
I did look at all the TV and deleted scenes, but used very little, if any, because the picture quality wasn't very good.
But keep the workable humor. I mean, was the movie irreprably harmed by 'Excuse me, General....' ?
Yes, there is still plenty of what I consider "good" humor, as long as it doesn't take the viewer out of a serious moment.
And the campier bits of General Zod's performance are exactly what has made the character such an icon over the last 28 years. "KNEEL before Zod!"
Zod is still over the top. His ego is huge. I wouldn't remove it.
There's nothing wrong, for instance, with the beginning Eiffel Tower action scene; it's a riveting, effective action opener and there's no reason why it shouldn't be in there. Donner basically uses the end of part I as a large part of the first act of II. It just feels redundant and is no way to start a movie.
Son of Jorel is a combining of the two movies, so the Eiffel Tower scene is unnecessary, and has been cut. Personally I hated the sequence anyway. I tried making an edit of it back when my original intention was just to do an edit of Superman II, but I couldn't make it work to my satisfaction anyway.
There's also nothing wrong with Lester's scenes at Niagara Falls. They help build up the romantic tension a bit more and make their later love scenes seem more credible.
I didn't like most of the Niagara scenes, and a lot of it was cut. But the Donner Cut hotel scenes, although better written, were test shoots and just don't fit in, visually or performance-wise. So I was left with very cut Lester directed scenes that I think work well.
The Fortress of Solitude climax was also superior in the first film, even despite the lame cellophane wrap attack and teleporting.
I disagree. Even if I didn't despise the new powers being used (teleporation, multiple Sups?, cellophane wrap, beams from fingers), and the fact that most of Lex's scenes are with a double, there was still too much joking going on in what should have been a very serious ending. The fact that there is no real action in the Donner Cut version of that scene isn't important to me. It just followed a bunch of action in the streets of Metropolis anyway.
the ending for the Donner cut felt REALLY sloppy.
I agree. Hopefully everyone will like my new "ending".
My dream cut of Superman II would be to use the Donner Cut, but then have the movie end on the somber note of Superman dropping Lois off at her apartment, and eliminate everything after that, cut immediately to superman restoring the flag at the white house then\or cut to Superman flying off into space, and cue the credits). No reset button in which Lois forgets that she knows Superman's secret identity. Any such reset button is kind of a cheat, IMHO.
I pretty much agree.
Sure, it screws up the continuity of the subsequent movies, but who cares about the subsequent movies?
Well, the only sequel to Superman II, in my mind is Superman Returns. And there are a bunch of continuity errors between the two anyway. I will try to erase those with this edit, and with a possible edit of Superman Returns (especially if they go ahead with a proper sequel to that, and not the proposed reboot).
Hope that answers your concerns. Please watch the edit and tell me what you think.
-T