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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 9

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Furthermore, while that explanation may work with the design of the respective vehicles, it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT...

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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Bingowings said:

P.S. On the subject of Threepio I remember that Lucas originally intended to give him a used car salesman voice and we are short of a Han Solo style positive cynic it might be possible to keep Threepio but give him a very different way of expressing himself (something like Bender from "Futurama") which would explain why Owen doesn't recognise him (he looks different and he sounds different too).

 

 Then 3PO would be unrecognizable by the audience! I say just cut 'im out.

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adywan said:
AxiaEuxine said:

 Ady are you really thinking of not having Yoda use his saber?

He won't be seen with a lightsaber  until ROTS when he beheads the troops.

That is fantastic news!  Will the Sidious/Yoda duel still be in, then?  In all honesty, I'd 100% prefer NEVER seeing him with a lightsaber, but the troop-beheading is pretty sweet, and it's clearly in self-defense with no wasted agressive movements (mind you, I only saw ROTS in the theaters, so I don't remember 100%).  I'd accept that.  I'd still argue against ANY other Yoda-with-lightsaber scenes, especially the Yoda/Sidious duel, just because I also think the Emperor should NEVER be seen with a lightsaber, as well.

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If Vader's suit and helmet still remains in the edit his helmet should be like this:

 

It is from the EFX prop collectibles company based on one of McQuarries concept sketches of Vader. Most of the other concepts for Vader ranged from a face mask (and a full head of hair) to a Stormtrooper helmet and other helmets more like the Vader we all know and love but meaner. But I like this one because it isn't too outrageously evil. less refined you know

 

 

And a very relevant link

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/visualdevelopmentofdarthvader.html

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 (Edited)

Originally posted by Octorox:

"Okay, if the tech isn't more advanced than why can't Darth Vader climb up walls and fight with four lightsabers at once? Why can't the empire have an army of roly poly droids that can be stored in masses, deploy personal bubble shields and take out Jedi. Droids in the OT hobble or roll along. Droids in the PT can run around and attack people."

True, Vader can't do those things, but that's because both his and Grievous's bodies are based on two completely different production concepts.  Vader's prosthetics are meant to emulate natural human motion as best as possible.  It's not a matter of one is better than the other, because they are two different things that can't be lobbed into the same category together.

In regards to droids: following the birth of the Empire battle droids where deemed inferior in comparison to living breathing troops and thus abandoned.  It's not that the Empire doesn't have the ability to utilize battle droids.  They just chose not to.  Not to mention the fact that you're comparing the likes of protocol, medical and repair droids to FREAKING BATTLE DROIDS.

-Rhikter

www.facebook.com/rhikter

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 (Edited)

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana

"...it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT..."

I don't know what you could possibly be referencing other than the Death Star plans presented on Yavin IV in ANH.  Other than that you don't have any real argument.

-Rhikter

www.facebook.com/rhikter

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 (Edited)
Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Octorox:

"Okay, if the tech isn't more advanced than why can't Darth Vader climb up walls and fight with four lightsabers at once? Why can't the empire have an army of roly poly droids that can be stored in masses, deploy personal bubble shields and take out Jedi. Droids in the OT hobble or roll along. Droids in the PT can run around and attack people."

True, Vader can't do those things, but that's because both his and Grievous's bodies are based on two completely different production concepts.  Vader's prosthetics are meant to emulate natural human motion as best as possible.  It's not a matter of one it better than the other, because they are two different things that can't be lobbed into the same category together.

In regards to droids: following the birth of the Empire battle droids where deemed inferior in comparison to living breathing troops and thus abandoned.  It's not that the Empire doesn't have the ability to utilize battle droids.  They just chose not to.  Not to mention the fact that you're comparing the likes of protocol, medical and repair droids to FREAKING BATTLE DROIDS.

Oh come on. If things could just form bubble shields around themselves why doesn't every unit have one? Why don't the stormtroopers have little transformer walkers they can deploy from cubes. OT technology is clunky and practical while PT tech is crazy science fiction stuff that doesn't seem like it could possibly be engineered.

 

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OzoneSherrif said:

If Vader's suit and helmet still remains in the edit his helmet should be like this:

 

It is from the EFX prop collectibles company based on one of McQuarries concept sketches of Vader. Most of the other concepts for Vader ranged from a face mask (and a full head of hair) to a Stormtrooper helmet and other helmets more like the Vader we all know and love but meaner. But I like this one because it isn't too outrageously evil. less refined you know

 

 

And a very relevant link

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/visualdevelopmentofdarthvader.html

I REALLY like that design. I'd like to see a modified version of it in the PT.

 

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Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana

"...it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT..."

I don't know what you could possibly be referencing other than the Death Star plans presented on Yavin IV in ANH. Other than that you don't have any real argument.

 

pretty much all the fighters seen in the PT have numerous advanced displays in their cockpits that ought to at least be pulled back to OT standards

 

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 (Edited)

Originally posted by Octorox

"Oh come on. If things could just form bubble shields around themselves why doesn't every unit have one? Why don't the stormtroopers have little transformer walkers they can deploy from cubes. OT technology is clunky and practical while PT tech is crazy science fiction stuff that doesn't seem like it could possibly be engineered."

You can't say that because a piece of technology wasn't present in the OT automatically means that it didn't exist.

In-Universe, the tech wasn't showcased simply because no one used it on screen.
In the real world it wasn't showcased either because no one thought of it, or didn't have the resources to produce the effect at the time.  When the PT came around someone said "Hey, now we have an opportunity to use this stuff, and there's no real reason why it should conflict with OT because we can just say that no one used it on screen in those films" which is a perfectly reasonable explanation.  I'll say it again: Artistic License.

Also, the abilities that you're referencing were exclusive to battle droids, more specifically battle droids in battle.  And, I don't mean minor skirmishes like those in Cloud City or on the Death Star.  I mean full fledged, planned out military campaigns with two armies going against each other.  Even if the Droidekas in the PT had been replaced with flesh and blood soldiers, technology like the bubble shield is the type of military equipment you would only bring out during a preplanned military campaign like D-Day or the Battle of Geonosis.  The only instance like this the comes up in the OT is the Battle of Hoth and, like I said before, we just don't see enough of the Snow Troopers in battle to discern whether or not they had brought technology along the lines of bubble shields with them.

I don't think you can count the Battle of Endor the campaign category because the rebels on the ground were part of a spy convoy, only enough to fit in the Tiderium, thus not constituting a full blown military campaign.  The stormtroopers that ambushed them knew that it would be many against few, and I don't think would have deemed it necessary to bring along such tech.  Of course the real life reason is that Lucasfilm just didn't put that type of stuff in there, and there is not problem with that.

You also have to think about what cultures were utilizing what tech in the PT.  In the case of the Gungans, their battle shield seemed to be a device that was culturally exclusive to them.  They are the type of culture - at least base on what was present in TPM - that forces their enemies to come to them so they can destroy them with short range weaponry.  How many Gungans do you remember seeing in the OT.  On top of that, let us not forget Nute Gunray's line "[The resistance] appears to be made up of primitives," which could indicate that the shield technology they were utilizing was on the verge of being obsolete.

EDIT: Isn't "clunky and practical" a bit of a misnomer?

-Rhikter

www.facebook.com/rhikter

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 (Edited)

Originally posted by OzoneSherrif:

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana

"...it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT..."

I don't know what you could possibly be referencing other than the Death Star plans presented on Yavin IV in ANH. Other than that you don't have any real argument.

 

pretty much all the fighters seen in the PT have numerous advanced displays in their cockpits that ought to at least be pulled back to OT standards

Would you mind citing some specific examples?  I will re-endure the 7-8 hours of mind drilling agony that is the PT this weekend in order to see exactly what it is you're talking about.

Also, what's a good website I can use to host my findings should I choose to take some screen shots of the movies?

-Rhikter

www.facebook.com/rhikter

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 (Edited)

Hm... like I said any fighters or space travelling transports. though I believe the Jedi fighters in ROTS might have had OT style displays

The ARC-170 for example. But the hologram of the Emperor is fine.

You could use imageshack for hosting. or flickr though i've never used it

 

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The Golden Idol said:
Bingowings said:

P.S. On the subject of Threepio I remember that Lucas originally intended to give him a used car salesman voice and we are short of a Han Solo style positive cynic it might be possible to keep Threepio but give him a very different way of expressing himself (something like Bender from "Futurama") which would explain why Owen doesn't recognise him (he looks different and he sounds different too).

 

 Then 3PO would be unrecognizable by the audience! I say just cut 'im out.

The audience and R2 would know who he was but Owen and Beru wouldn't and Ben and Vader would only suspect it.

Basically he could be the same character but with a different voice and mode of expression.

Look at Han in ANH, "I'm not going anywhere", "What's the point of getting a reward if you ain't around to use it?" etc.

Is it that different to "I'm not getting in there", "This is suicide" etc (only the voice is different, the words mean almost the same thing).

Both appear on the surface to be self surving but when push comes to shove Han saves Luke and Threepio's first concern in Cloud City is to warn the others about the Stormtroopers.

If Threepio started off as this blunt, slightly oily character and lost his memories and gained a new voice but still acted the same, it would play against the expectations of the audience and give an editor a character that could say almost anything to change the mode of the story.

Threepio met another protocol droid which bad mouthed him in Cloud City (in a very different voice) so why not have him start out that way before his memory got wiped?

 

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 (Edited)
Octorox said:
OzoneSherrif said:

If Vader's suit and helmet still remains in the edit his helmet should be like this:

 

It is from the EFX prop collectibles company based on one of McQuarries concept sketches of Vader. Most of the other concepts for Vader ranged from a face mask (and a full head of hair) to a Stormtrooper helmet and other helmets more like the Vader we all know and love but meaner. But I like this one because it isn't too outrageously evil. less refined you know

 

 

And a very relevant link

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/visualdevelopmentofdarthvader.html

I REALLY like that design. I'd like to see a modified version of it in the PT.

 

Either would be great, both still look like Vader but you could argue that over time he got upgrades to his suit.

The one in ROTS looks more advanced than the one in ROTJ.

 

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i really like that, its almost like a young vader, but i still think no vader would be better. unless you saw the emperor in a token scene near the end, with vader stood near him, but he is not introduced so its almost like "whos that guy?"

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Bingowings said:
The Golden Idol said:
Bingowings said:

P.S. On the subject of Threepio I remember that Lucas originally intended to give him a used car salesman voice and we are short of a Han Solo style positive cynic it might be possible to keep Threepio but give him a very different way of expressing himself (something like Bender from "Futurama") which would explain why Owen doesn't recognise him (he looks different and he sounds different too).

 

 Then 3PO would be unrecognizable by the audience! I say just cut 'im out.

The audience and R2 would know who he was but Owen and Beru wouldn't and Ben and Vader would only suspect it.

Basically he could be the same character but with a different voice and mode of expression.

Look at Han in ANH, "I'm not going anywhere", "What's the point of getting a reward if you ain't around to use it?" etc.

Is it that different to "I'm not getting in there", "This is suicide" etc (only the voice is different, the words mean almost the same thing).

Both appear on the surface to be self surving but when push comes to shove Han saves Luke and Threepio's first concern in Cloud City is to warn the others about the Stormtroopers.

If Threepio started off as this blunt, slightly oily character and lost his memories and gained a new voice but still acted the same, it would play against the expectations of the audience and give an editor a character that could say almost anything to change the mode of the story.

Threepio met another protocol droid which bad mouthed him in Cloud City (in a very different voice) so why not have him start out that way before his memory got wiped?

 

 

 I was thinking just make him a different protocol droid altogether. He could be removed in TPM and in AOTC he could just be the Lar's old protocol droid with a new voice.

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Here are two posts I made earlier in the thread about the 3PO situation in case you missed them:

Originally posted by Rhikter:

"...I think that Adywan has an opportunity here to, instead of omit 3PO, do him justice.  He could do so by using audio samples from the many EU projects that Anthony Daniels has lent his voice to over the years.  This would be similar to how he added Luke's "Biggs!' dialogue in ANH:R using an audio sample from the radio drama."

 

Originally posted by Bingowings

"Another idea that occurred to me was rather than removing Threepio from the prequels perhaps sticking him (the full Gold version) in all of them..."

"Hell, it could be pulled off very convincingly if you outsourced it to someone with green-screen experience and got an actor in a decent looking 3PO costume.  Plus, since the actor in the suit would be able to make gestures appropriate to the lines, you would have a level of control over the direction of the character and his function in the story that you would not have if you were just redubbing existing 3PO footage with sampled Anthony Daniels dialogue.  Adywan has already proven his proficiency with changing backgrounds completely, so this could be very feasible."

-Rhikter

www.facebook.com/rhikter

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Erikstormtrooper said:
AxiaEuxine said:

What do you plan to do? Have Dooku cut off Anakin's arm, sigh and then board his ship and leave? 

I hate to keep popping in with other edits to check out, but ...

The Phantom Editor's version of Episode II (Attack of the Phantom), successfully removes the lightsaber fight between Yoda and Dooku. Dooku does some force-throwing and lightning, and then he just reaches over and causes the column to start falling onto Anakin and Obi Wan. As Yoda stops the column, Dooku gets away.

Seriously, any time Yoda has a lightsaber battle with a Sith, I feel like I'm watching the dali lama and Osama bin Laden have a knife fight.

really?  my version doesnt excise the lightsaber fight.  He explained in the commentary that he worried removing it would take too much from the movie and he ultimately kept it.  Ide be interested to see the version you have if that could be arranged.

 

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stossmo said:
Erikstormtrooper said:
AxiaEuxine said:

What do you plan to do? Have Dooku cut off Anakin's arm, sigh and then board his ship and leave? 

I hate to keep popping in with other edits to check out, but ...

The Phantom Editor's version of Episode II (Attack of the Phantom), successfully removes the lightsaber fight between Yoda and Dooku. Dooku does some force-throwing and lightning, and then he just reaches over and causes the column to start falling onto Anakin and Obi Wan. As Yoda stops the column, Dooku gets away.

Seriously, any time Yoda has a lightsaber battle with a Sith, I feel like I'm watching the dali lama and Osama bin Laden have a knife fight.

really?  my version doesnt excise the lightsaber fight.  He explained in the commentary that he worried removing it would take too much from the movie and he ultimately kept it.  Ide be interested to see the version you have if that could be arranged.

 

 

If you click on the "phantom editor" symbol around that part it takes you too a cut where he removes the fight.

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The Phantom Editor's version of Episode II (Attack of the Phantom), successfully removes the lightsaber fight between Yoda and Dooku. Dooku does some force-throwing and lightning, and then he just reaches over and causes the column to start falling onto Anakin and Obi Wan. As Yoda stops the column, Dooku gets away.

Seriously, any time Yoda has a lightsaber battle with a Sith, I feel like I'm watching the dali lama and Osama bin Laden have a knife fight.

really?  my version doesnt excise the lightsaber fight.  He explained in the commentary that he worried removing it would take too much from the movie and he ultimately kept it.  Ide be interested to see the version you have if that could be arranged.

 

 

If you click on the "phantom editor" symbol around that part it takes you too a cut where he removes the fight.

ah, thanks.  I cant believe I missed that.

 

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stossmo said:

eriously, any time Yoda has a lightsaber battle with a Sith, I feel like I'm watching the dali lama and Osama bin Laden have a knife fight.

really?  my version doesnt excise the lightsaber fight.  He explained in the commentary that he worried removing it would take too much from the movie and he ultimately kept it.  Ide be interested to see the version you have if that could be arranged.

 

 

If you click on the "phantom editor" symbol around that part it takes you too a cut where he removes the fight.

ah, thanks.  I cant believe I missed that.

 

 

In the shooting script for "TPM" the Yoda lightsaber fight is described to be much more meaningful. Dooku decides they need to fight with lightsabers, and Yoda takes his out and with the extreme minimum of motion effortlessly blocks all of Dooku's attacks. Like Mr. Miagi at the start of Karate Kid II. It's only after being frustrated by Yoda's Zen Lightsaber Master defense that Dooku uses the force to endanger ObiWan and Anakin.

I think if it had been shot this way, character based, and less 'badass,' we would have found the seen much less objectionable.

 

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Wow.  That description actually sounds ... good.

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Yeah sounds like Yoda had a super powerful foreseeing power. like Neo lol. but that's better

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adywan said:

1) So why didn't Obi-Wan need have to have a lifesupport suit after mustafar then?


2) it shows how a good person can turn evil and how power corrupts and not that he was built to be evil from conception. If he was created by the sith he would have had evil in him all the time and would not have been a good man and turns Vader into a puppet. If he was destined to become evil then he would never have turned back to the good side in ROTJ. The fact that he was only manipulated and not created to be a Sith displays why Luke can sense that there was still good in him and that because it was only manipulation that turned him he was able to save his son..

 

1) Obi-Wan wasn't on fire. with Anakin being on fire and wailing and moaning, it's very likely he inhaled some of that fire, which would have burned his lungs. i don't think you need a special reason to justify this. i recommend at least taking a longer look at the medical science around this kind of situation before you decide to drastically change the film.

 

2) Being created by Darth Plagueis doesn't necessitate that Anakin was "built to be evil" or fundamentally "created to be Sith." there's no reason to think Plagueis had any more control over his creation than Frankenstein did over his monster.

 

i imagine that all Plagueis did was what we were told. he manipulated the midichlorians to create life. perhaps that was all he wanted to do and it was a happy accident that Anakin was so powerful, or perhaps he wanted to create a being very powerful in the Force. if the latter, then i'm sure he intended to train the boy-creature as a Sith, but none of this means the boy is now naturally evil, any more than any other lifeform.

 

i also imagine that Palpatine didn't know about this experiment until after he killed Plagueis, which why he didn't know about his whereabouts. and a random slave girl on some backwater Outer Rim world sounds like the perfect place to conduct an experiment like this in a natural environment.

 

now, i'm not in support of keeping the midichlorian talk, or this hinted at backstory. i'm just saying that the reason you gave doesn't follow from what we know.

 

3) as far as the prequel effort goes, i have only one request. be mindful of the canon and the fact that the canon for this era is STILL being built.

 

a good example of that is with ADM including the Shaak Ti deleted scene. for anyone looking for fanedits that stay within canon this edit is no longer viable, because now we know Shaak Ti's fate from The Force Unleashed.

 

so i'd oppose major things like making Naboo Alderaan. maybe George should have gone that route in the beginning, and i wish he had. but he didn't, and what good does trying to erase Naboo from the movies serve when the cartoon show and any other source is going to recognize Naboo? you want the movies to fit in with the rest of the material, not be jarringly out of step.

 

the thing with removing 3P0 until RotS is that, we can still think that Anakin made him if we want, if it ever comes up again or is important, because you're not contradicting it, you're just not noting it or drawing any attention to it, so one is free to ignore it if they wish. IMO, that's the right way to go about an edit like this.

 

your ANH was an excellent job because you wanted to preserve what was there and smooth the rough edges. you should do the same with the prequels. if you try to drastically alter things, imo, your edit will fall flat and be rejected because it'll be too divergent.

 

good luck to you in your efforts.

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The thing with all this new canon crap being introduced is that it is pushing the OT further out of the loop. As i have said many times anything outside of the 6 movies does not count to me as being canon. The PT needs to be radically changed to fit in with the OT and not the other way around & that is what i want to accomplish. The "Revisited" saga has nothing to do with any of the spin-offs and never will do. The Clone wars tv series also messes with what we know in the PT so why it is deemed as canon is beyond me. Anakin shouldn't be able to have a Padawan as he isn't yet a master and is still a Padawan himself. Star Wars is becoming a total mess and has done ever since the PT came out. If we are supposed to make the movies to fit in with what the spin-offs include then we have to make the Ewoks speak and revisions to the movies could never end. GL wrote the Ewok films and that makes them canon if we are saying that any star wars stuff GL has a hand in is cannon. Just because he says the series is canon really doesn't mean much any more. He seems to have lost all reasoning as to what the star wars saga is all about and adds anything in without actually thinking if it would mess with something that is already mentioned or is featured in the movies. Also having a video game become canon is damn ridiculous. It seems anything with the star wars name on it now is suddenly canon. The OT came first so everything should be made to fit around those movies. Then everything that followed the PT should also be made to fit those but it doesn't. That is why the only canon that will exist for Revisited is the movies.

And yet again onto Anakin burning then if you're going to say i take a longer look at medical science then maybe you should too because if we are sticking to medical science then Obi-Wan & Anakin would have died long before the battle ended and would ahve both burned to a crisp. Do you know how hot volcanic lava is? The air would be full of poisonous gasses so when outside the structures shields they would have died very quickly. And as i said Anakin is lying face down close and the flames aren't severe around his face so the fire argument doe not work. Smoke inhalation is the biggest factor in any lung damage in a fire. Read about that guy in the link i posted . he was completely on fire, in an enclosed space and he survived without major lung damage. Anakin was on fire for a few seconds. His transformation was very poorly executed. the original explanation having Anakin falling into a lava pit would have made more sense as the lava would have severely burned away most of his body and his lungs & internal organs would have been severely damaged. All we got was a few limbs missing and a bad burn. Also if you listen to Anakin when they are operating on him at the end he is screaming out . So no lung damage. Another thing they screwed up in the PT. That alone proves that there was not enough lung damage, if any at all, to warrant a life support suit. Case closed. lol

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