rcb said:Vaderisnothayden said:rcb said:Vaderisnothayden said:rcb said:okay, take deep breaths with me...in...out...Better? now on the mark walking out of theater from episode I and not feeling the magic, that's a no brainer. of course u won't relive that agian. that is a once in a lifetime thing! you couldn't expect a repeat.
I'm not saying i hated TPM btw.
and if its that bad for you, dont bother to post anymore.
Why should he not post? He's got a perfectly valid viewpoint and he's saying stuff that needs saying. What Lucas has done to Star Wars is abomination and it needs to be criticised again and again and again. Such criticism is far more valid than people praising what Lucas has done more recently, and there's no end of such mindless worshipful praise.
As for the magic, no it wasn't a once in a lifetime thing. It happened three times with Star Wars. Each film of the old trilogy was magical. That has not been the case with the new films.
i'm srry i lost my temper. but you have to see where i'm coming from. its kinda annoying when people diss the PT as if it was not part of the saga. and saying he expected the same magic when walking out of TPM, is a very retorical statement.
Sorry, I don't see where you're coming from. The PT deserves to be dissed and it isn't part of the saga. And I don't see what's so rhetorical about saying he expected the same magic from TPM.
What Lucas did in the prequels was a betrayal of Star Wars and an insult to all of us. Those films don't fit into the same universe as the originals and as such they don't belong counted as part of the original saga. Had Lucas made the prequels properly, faithful to the spirit of the original Star Wars, then they would be part of the saga. But the ones he made aren't. What happened with the prequels was an abomination and needs to be criticised. I can understand somebody liking TPM to an extent, but I cannot understand anybody liking ROTS and AOTC. Those two films are absolute shite and soulless and don't deserve to be liked. Their shallow soullessness is disgusting. Art should have soul and feeling and humanity. Otherwise it's worthless and pointless.
its hard to deny it not being part of the saga in my opinion. there are a lot of inacuracies with it and the OT. but in general it answers the questions we all had and filled in the gaps.
and how can u not see the its not retorical about expecting the same magic in the TPM as in ANH. ANH was a turn in movie making and how we think. You already knew what to expect, somewat, of TPM.
It's not hard to deny it being part of the same saga. The missing part of the OOT's saga is the films Lucas would have made if he'd made the prequels back in the 80s. The prequels were got are entirely different, different in mentality and different in story. Read The Secret History of Star Wars. The prequel story changed considerably before Lucas put it onscreen. The prequel story he put onscreen is not the same story he had in mind back in 1983. Those new films aren't the missing part of the OOT's story, they're a new project with a revisionist take on Star Wars. If you want the missing part of the OOT story you need to look at Lucas's old notes. But the OOT doesn't need a prequel trilogy to support it, it does quite well on its own.
Furthermore, the prequel trilogy works by a different mentality, a totally different mindset, with different unspoken rules underpinning its universe. For example, The Phantom Menace is full of characters who are very clearly cartoon characters in every way. Jar Jar, Sebulba, Watto, Boss Nass, various podracers. Characters like that belong to a less real sort of fiction that takes its reality less seriously. Star Wars is hardly realistic, but the OOT always tried to make its non-real things seem real and make its universe seem real. That was a crucial part of what made the OOT what it was. Cartoons don't try to seem real the same way. Standard cartoon characters are part of taking a fictional reality less seriously, not believing in its reality as much. Bringing cartoon characters into Star Wars is saying that the Star Wars fictional reality is now being taken less seriously, its reality is being believed in less. Its reality is less real. That puts the prequels on a whole different level from the OOT. They exist in an alternate Star Wars fictional reality in which Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse (or Jar Jar) can exist alongside Palpatine. That's not the same Star Wars universe as the OOT's universe. The rules are different. With different foundation rules comes a different universe. Maybe the prequels exist in the same universe as the special edition, with its cartoonish cgi Jabba and Jedi Rocks scene, but they don't exist in the same universe as the OOT.
There are inconsistencies between the OOT films, but they are not glaring and massive. But the portrayal of Anakin as a shallow insubstantial jerk in the prequels is totally at odds with the guy he's implied to be in the OOT. That is a massive glaring difference. The character at the core of the backstory which became the PT has had a total change of personality. The Anakin of AOTC and ROTS could never have become the benevolent wise old guy full of gravitas that we see portrayed by Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ or the strong forceful individual we saw as Darth Vader in the OOT. The very heart of the story has been changed drastically there. This is a different Star Wars universe.
And yes it should have been possible to get the same magic in the prequel trilogy that we got in the first Star Wars film, because we got the same magic in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. So no there's nothing rhetorical in what I said. The first three films are all magical. The Phantom Menace has something to it but compared to the OOT it's plastic, not magical at all. The remaining two prequel movies are as far from magical as possible. Two shallow cynical exercises in money-grubbing, with no soul.
TMBTM said:What Lucas did in the prequels was a betrayal of Star Wars and an insult to all of us. Those films don't fit into the same universe as the originals and as such they don't belong counted as part of the original saga.
The fact is the PT were a little letdown to me for the exact opposite of what you said: I pretty much already knew all about the main story (hell, even the final Anakin/Obi duel surrounded by lava was known for 20 years). No real surprise, appart some annoying and useless ones.
So I understand when people say that they don't like the PT and that they prefer ignoring them, but you can't say that they do not fit into the same univers. (well, yes, you can say that...but I disagree: ;) ) because it is the back story we already knew for ages, it's just the way of telling it that was (mostly) poorly done and missed good opportunities.
No, the PT is not the backstory we already knew for ages. It's a revisionist rewriting of that backstory. There were major changes made to that backstory before it went onscreen as the prequels. The story of the prequels is not the exact same backstory Lucas had way back. And furthermore, you can take a basic backstory and do it in totally different ways on the screen, with a different emotional makeup and the characters portrayed differently. The prequel films Lucas made are undoubtably very different that way from how they would have been if Lucas made them after ROTJ. The backstory changed, the mentality totally different... the prequels exist in a different Star Wars universe from the OOT. And remember, the prequels weren't made to be in the same universe as the OOT, they were made to be in the same universe as the special edition.