The Clone Wars (2008 animated tv series) - a general discussion thread — Page 9

hmm, pretty mixed bag this week

High points -

Gunray making jokes about irony and then Gree chastising another for betraying his Jedi allies...

A little creativity to the duels rather than pure saber twirling.

low points -

I expected from the start that the senate troopers would betray the others. 

The music sounded far too much like stargate.

The voice acting on Luminara

--

Looks like next week is finally what i was looking forward to in early previews.

I saw the pilot movie and that was enough for me. Lame nonsense. Modern Star Wars isn't valid anyway -ever since Lucas mutilated the OT, stuffed cartoon characters into live action Star Wars (TPM) and tried to pass off Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker. Anything put out nowadays is built on that foundation and isn't the real thing. In the old days nobody took animated stuff seriously as real Star Wars. It's not like Ewoks or Droids was taken terribly seriously. So if we reject the prequels we've got no reason to accept this silly crap. And silly crap it is. Shallow and annoying. It's more dragging Star Wars through the mud. It's more destruction of the legend. And there's two dvd releases of the Clone Wars movie out while there's only a laserdisc quality as-a-bonus-feature release of the OOT out. It's ridiculous. Punky muffin my arse hole.

HotRod said:

This place is really started to drain me.....95% of the new threads are all so bloody negative.

 

Attacking Lucas's crap is positive, not negative. Let's leave the gushing to the Lucas zombies. Criticism is constructive, and running down something that deserves to be run down is a damn good thing to do.

TMBTM said:

I understand those who said that we don't care for characters like Yoda because we know they can not die, but in the meantime it is not the point of this series. The point is (aside from selling toys) for each episode to teach a little moral to the kids.

Oh God, that's horrible. Fiction that insists on teaching morals to kids is so self-righteous. Self-important moralising, that's just what Star Wars needs.

And whatever Lucas says, Star Wars wasn't always just kiddie stuff. The original films were general audience, designed to appeal to all ages. The old Star Wars wasn't stuff designed to annoy adults and appeal only to kids without brains. Nothing should be pushed as real Star Wars if it isn't designed to appeal to all ages.

Ziz said:

skyjedi2005 said:

Guess i will just pretend this does not exist and sit back and watch the oot.  Kind of like what i mostly do with that phantom plot movie and its sequels.

PLEASE!  Just do the rest of us a favor and do it QUIETLY.  You don't need to come on here every 10 minutes and re-prove how much you hate any SW that came about after 1983.

There hasn't been any Star Wars since 1983.

bkev said:

The pilot was TERRIBLE... I think the series itself is hit-and-miss.

I think it's a good bet that any so-called Star Wars that Lucas is involved in these days is going to be miss rather than hit. I think he's totally lost sight of Star Wars, of what it was, how it worked and what made it good.

And my God, that animation style is revolting. I hear it draws on Thunderbirds puppetry and anime animation. Well, Thunderbirds puppets were creepy and anime animation is fucking annoying. Who needs that stuff dragged into Star Wars?

Mielr said:

GeorgeLucasIsANarcissist said:

C3PX said:

I can't speak for anybody else, but I absolutely freaken love skyjedi's posts. I think he should have his own late night talk show, because he is awesome.

 

I don't post much, but this is spot-on. Roll on skyjedi. Don't ever change.

I agree- I love Sky's posts! :-)

 

Yeah, I find his posts a breath of fresh air and he says stuff that needs saying.

Maybe it sounds too much like sg-1 to you Johnny because it is the same composer Kevin Kiner.

Yes I am aware of this, It was you not me who called him Kevin Kerner, repeatedly ;)

There were just several points where it sounded distinctly like Stargate. I am not bashing the series music in general, usually it's fine.

He cannot even get the Main Theme by John Williams right.

If you don't like the show then why would you want them to use JW's music in it?

AxiaEuxine said:

Man I am tired of all of you fans arguing about Star Wars all the time...it's exhausting. It makes me want to leave fandom becuase none of you ever have anything positive to say. I would love to discuss Star wars with fellow fans but no one seems to like Star Wars anymore...Well I guess I can save on rent if I dump my hobby room

We like Star Wars plenty. We (some of us at least) just don't like the modern crap that is wrongfully passed off as being Star Wars. And so what if some of us are pissed off, what else could we be, seeing as we love Star Wars and Star Wars has been so thoroughly crapped on? We love Star Wars, but I don't think George Lucas does. Else why would he mutilate it and crap on it?

vbangle said:

Just becuase something has the name Star Wars, doesn't mean it isn't shitty....

Nowadays if something has the name Sar Wars on it that generally means it IS shitty. lol

Mielr said:

Chewy72 said:

I log onto this site in hopes that the OOT is released on DVD in better quality then the 2006 release, or released on BluRay.  

I also come here everyday hoping that there will be some kind of news about the OOT getting released on blu-ray. When there inevitably isn't, I stick around to discuss other OOT-related subjects with like-minded OOT fans.

It feels like this site is starting to stray from it's original spirit, and getting to be more like TFN. There are lots of forums where people can profess their love for the Prequels and SEs, but how many sites are there for OOT purists to bitch and moan without a bunch of people chiming in to inform us that there must be something wrong with us if we don't love the Clone Wars or the PT or the SEs?

It used to just be the occasional troll/threadcrapper like GoMerTonic, but it seems to be happening on a regular basis now. There seems to be an increasing level of intolerance for OOT fans here, which is very disturbing.

 

Yeah! I came here because I heard that this site was full of people who had sensible views on Lucas's more recent stuff and didn't feel it was unacceptable to criticise stuff that needed criticising. But by now I've had certain posters here giving out shit to me for my obviously Evil bashing of Lucas's holy work. And I've seen more of the same sort of thing happening to other people. Surely at least in this OOT fan haven people can be allowed to criticise without people trying to shut them up? Or does freedom of speech re Lucas's work have to be driven off the internet entirely? There should be some site rule that bashing is approved activity and is not to be given out about.

DarkFather said:

I'm not sure what everyone's problem with Anakin and Ashoka's interactions is.

The writing therein is much better than most animated series these days. Especially those found on Cartoon Network. It wasn't awful, it was tolerable, and even acceptable, because it seemed like fun little conversations two people such as them in that situation would actually be having. Anakin's padawan isn't sophisticated. She's a teenage girl. And a very believable one at that.

I mean seriously. What the hell would you have them saying? Completely humorless, inane technological Star Trek dialogue?

It was definitely a step up from the dialogue of the PT. And this is coming from a traditional Star Wars fan. 

"The writing therein is much better than most animated series these days"

Then most animated series these days must be crap. And this isn't just most animated series, this is a show that claims to be honest to God Star Wars. It's got a standard to live up to. Anakin and Ashoka's interaction is shallow and painful. He's the worst part of it. He acts like a petty jerk. This is very much the prequel Anakin, the painful jerk we saw in AOTC and ROTS. I don't think this is any step up from the PT. It's PT-shallow.

HotRod said:

Look man, I love Star Wars. It's been part of my life sine I was 7 years old. I grew up with, it kept me company when i was on my own in my bedroom. I'll love it till the day I die.

But, just because this 'modern Star Wars' as you call it isn't quite as good as the originals, doesn't make it crap. I wasn't the biggest fan of The Phantom Menace (I was absolutely gutted coming out of the theater in 99) and for me Attack of the Clones is mostly a pretty bad film, but I love Revenge of the Sith. There's just something about that film that has me coming back again and again (I know why, but it's a long story).  So, for me these cartoons are just very entertaining way to spend 30 mins on a Saturday evening after putting the kids to bed and settling down with a nice glass of the old vino.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand why some here hate it, but really, come on, it's just a cartoon show. It could have been a lot worse than it actually is. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Just stop all the slagging off. Some of us oldies (who were there in 77) actually like this show...and the prequels.

 

Ok rant over!!

;)

 

 

Just as you have a right to like this stuff, I have a right to do this "slagging off". This is originaltrilogy.com, not tfn. We're allowed to criticise here.

But, just because this 'modern Star Wars' as you call it isn't quite as good as the originals, doesn't make it crap

The fact that it isn't as good as the original doesn't make it crap. The fact that it's crap makes it crap. And Revenge of the Sith is one of the worst films I've ever seen. So utterly shallow and insincere. So totally not heartfelt. And with such a fucked up message and attitude. Not to mention some horrendous acting. That film deeply offended me and disgusted me. It angers the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me understand anybody liking it or thinking there's anything worthwhile in it. 

Don't get me wrong, I can understand why some here hate it, but really, come on, it's just a cartoon show.

If it's just a cartoon show then it shouldn't getting passed off as real Star Wars. And if it is getting passed off as real Star Wars then it should be judged by that standard.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

I saw the pilot movie and that was enough for me.

 

so have you watched the tv series or not?

 

later

-1

The Clone Wars movie IS the tv series. It's made out of episodes of the tv series and it's the start of the tv series.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

If it's just a cartoon show then it shouldn't getting passed off as real Star Wars. And if it is getting passed off as real Star Wars then it should be judged by that standard.

 

what exactly is 'REAL' star wars?

 

later

-1

Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, in the forms they were in before the SE was made. But generally, the way it's been, the movies (including the PT and SE) have been what's taken seriously and the rest hasn't, so now it's a big change that an animated movie made of tv episodes is treated as if it's serious Star wars. That's the sense I was using the term "real Star Wars" in that post. I was talking about the EU versus movies divide, and this thing is being included in the movies section when it belongs in the EU section. Yes I don't consider anything from 1997 on to be real Star Wars, but in the sense I meant in that post there's a view that the movies (all of them) are real Star Wars and the Clone Wars seems to be getting included in that.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

I saw the pilot movie and that was enough for me.

 

so have you watched the tv series or not?

 

later

-1

The Clone Wars movie IS the tv series. It's made out of episodes of the tv series and it's the start of the tv series.

 

 

that's funny, since it was NEVER actually shown on tv, do you even know your facts?

or do we have to correct you about this also? it's hard to understand you, when you

don't grasp the basics of the 'clone wars'...

obviously you havent' seen any yet,

so your criticisms are a moot point..

 

later

-1

Actually I know my facts quite well. I was not under the impression that it was shown on tv. Lucas saw some stuff from episodes of the show (which hadn't yet been aired) and he decided to make a movie out of them. So it was made from episodes of the show. And yes it's the start of the show. Just because it wasn't aired on tv doesn't mean it isn't the start of the show. So yes it is the tv series. 

As you can see, I grasp the basics quite well. Do you? After all, your post implies you misunderstood what I said about the movie coming from the tv series, which implies you were not aware that it was made from the tv episodes. Which is pretty basic knowledge.

My criticisms are not a moot point, because I have seen the movie which is the beginning of the tv series.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

 

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

If it's just a cartoon show then it shouldn't getting passed off as real Star Wars. And if it is getting passed off as real Star Wars then it should be judged by that standard.

 

what exactly is 'REAL' star wars?

 

later

-1

Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, in the forms they were in before the SE was made.

ok fine..just the movies.. 

But generally, the way it's been, the movies (including the PT and SE) have been what's taken seriously and the rest hasn't, so now it's a big change that an animated movie made of tv episodes is treated as if it's serious Star wars. That's the sense I was using the term "real Star Wars" in that post. I was talking about the EU versus movies divide, and this thing is being included in the movies section when it belongs in the EU section. Yes I don't consider anything from 1997 on to be real Star Wars, but in the sense I meant in that post there's a view that the movies (all of them) are real Star Wars and the Clone Wars seems to be getting included in that.

 

who says the 'rest' haven't been taken seriously? there's a lot of talk about canon in

ESB:R thread...so that's where it breaks down, what everybody thinks is their personal

'canon' compared to the variations on canon from 'George Lucas' ...

it all depends on how you look at it, its all right 'from a certain point of view'..

i'm trying to figure out why the events in the clone wars contradict the original trilogy,

if that's what the problem is...so far i haven't seen it.

later

-1

 

who says the 'rest' haven't been taken seriously?

 Oh come on, you know full well what I mean.

there's a lot of talk about canon inESB:R thread...so that's where it breaks down, what everybody thinks is their personal 'canon' compared to the variations on canon from 'George Lucas' ...

George Lucas's view of canon hasn't been valid ever since he mutilated the OT. You don't go by a guy's word on Star Wars when he's stuck cutesey-comical cgi Jabba into Mos Eisley.

i'm trying to figure out why the events in the clone wars contradict the original trilogy, if that's what the problem is...so far i haven't seen it.

The Clone Wars is an animated show. Even by a view of canon that includes the PT, animated shows don't belong in the core Star Wars canon. Droids doesn't belong in the Star Wars canon, nor does Ewoks. That's quite apart from the fact that Clone Wars is prequel-universe and the prequel universe isn't the real thing. The whole mentality of the prequel universe is at odds with the OT.

negative1 said:

if you want to argue about semantics, then fine... but saying a movie = tv series, is false, since it was NEVER on tv, that's my point, you can watch the tv series without ever having the movie, and still 'get whats going on'.........  and my point still stands, just because you watched the 'movie' doesn't mean you've watched the tv show, which has had several episodes that are well beyond the scope of the movie, and have shown a high and consistent quality..

No, the movie is the start of the tv show, that's the reality. And it's going to have a lot in common with it. So yeah you can get a good idea of the tv show from the movie, because they're of the same cloth. Heck, I bet you can get a good idea of the show without even having seen the movie. The movie in many ways was as I expected it to be. It's made of prequel stuff, except even shallower and less faithful. If I could guess what the movie was going to be like from having read about it and seen stills and seen the prequels, then chances are I can tell a lot about the show from seeing the movie. When after all the movie and the show are just two parts of the same thing. High and consistent quality? Are you kidding? A modern Lucasfilm show that puts itself forward as real Star Wars while peddling revolting animation and prequelish nonsense? High and consistent quality is hardly likely. You just want to invalidate my view because you don't like it. Sorry, my view is valid.

yes, i knew it was GOING to be made into a tv series, and because IT WASN'T, thats why it comes down to semantics..... again, you have nothing to criticize about the current tv series, becuase you haven't watched any of the new episodes, or at least you won't admit it. that was my point. if you had, you wouldn't be complaining about the quality or tone of the 'clone wars' in the manner you did.

Semantics my ass. The movie is a sample of the show. Maybe slightly different from the rest of the show, but still a sample of it that can give me some idea. So I have plenty to criticise. Heck, I'd have plenty to criticise if I'd never seen the movie. There's a lot you can tell about this whole project without having seen any of it. As for telling me I wouldn't be complaining about the tone and quality of the show if I saw more of it... are you serious? We're talking modern Lucasfilm bullshit here. The last Star Wars screen fiction I found remotely worth watching was the Phantom Menace and the "in" style has changed since then, things have gone downhill, what professes to be Star Wars has gone yet farther from real Star Wars than TPM. I don't expect it would go back to real Star Wars when they're trying to push an animated show as the real thing, an animated show with annoying characters and revolting animation. The chances of it being quality or being properly Star Wars are nil. They don't make quality in "Star Wars" nowadays. The only question is how bad it is. Maybe the main body of the show is a bit better than the pilot movie, but it's not going to be good, it's not going to be worth me wasting my time on it, it's not going to have depth or Star Wars feeling or animation I can bear to look at. So yeah I'd be complaining, as you put it, if I saw the episodes. 

C3PX said:

Isn't the "movie" actually the pilot episode of the show? I thought they just decided to prep the pilot for the big screen to generate more hype, and to charge ten bucks a ticket instead of letting people see it for free. It is not like it is a movie that spawned a TV show. We had been hearing about the TV show for the longest time, the idea of putting a couple of pasted together episodes on the big screen came later. Another example of this is Battlestar Galactica (original, not the remake). Here in the states the first few episodes aired on TV just like the rest of the show, but in the UK they decided to give it a theatrical run first. Now you can go into Best Buy and by the "movie" Battlestar Galactica, advertised on its own box as something along the lines of "The movie that started it all..." which is bs, because when you look back on it, there never really was a movie, it was a TV pilot from start to finish. Just because the UK were given a TV pilot to be passed off as a movie and were made to pay for it in theaters, doesn't make it any more of a movie; it just makes it a TV pilot that was given a theatrical release. 

Clone Wars is pretty much the same thing, only this time the theatrical TV pilot was released worldwide, not just the UK. Without the "movie" you don't know the circumstances to which Ashoka became Anakin's apprentice, of course the "movie" is part of the series.

Yeah, pilot movie starting the show, that's it.

 Of course, you can't judge an entire series by its first epsiode

You can't get a full and complete picture, no, but you can get some sort of general ballpark idea.

I have only heard negative things about the theatrical feature, I have heard lots of good things about the series.

I heard good things about ROTS and look what that's like. The chances of this thing being something I'd think well of if I saw it are nil. The question, as far as I'm concerned, is just how bad it is. And the movie gives me some idea. Ok, so I'll estimate the show is a bit higher quality than the movie -still doesn't get it very far. They've lost understanding of what Star Wars is and I don't think they're likely to get it back any time soon, and certainly not in an animated show geared towards kids only, with painful animation, peddling an animated show as real Star Wars. As long as Lucas is in charge of Star Wars it's highly unlikely they'll turn out anything claiming to be Star Wars that I'll actually think well of.

I've heard people praise the theatrical feature too, which just goes to underline how people's praise for something doesn't mean it's any good.

I would have loved for there to have been something like this set in the SW universe when I was a kid, no doubt it would have been my favorite cartoon.

As a kid this thing would have pissed me off. Starting with the animation, which would have bothered me even more than it does now.

I watched a few episodes, and though it is rather juvenile for my taste, it seems fairly well done.

If something is going to be passed off as any sort of real Star Wars it shouldn't be TOO juvenile. The Ewoks in ROTJ was already pushing it and they were well done. That worked, because of the magic of the old films, but the modern sort of juvenile they pull, that doesn't work as Star Wars. Somebody needs to tell Georgie that Star Wars isn't just for kids.

And dammit, I wish people would stop treating kids as morons. Stuff doesn't have to be juvenile for kids to appreciate it. Look at The Hobbit, good stuff, works for adults. Tolkien didn't have to dumb down and majorly kiddify to make a book that became a classic for kids.