[image] -> _how_lucas_lucasfilm_changed_the_world_

skyjedi2005 said:

Does it have how George Lucas destroyed Star Wars with the special editions and prequels, or how he ruined Indiana Jones with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

Does it mention how in 2006 he released the original films as non anamorphic bonus discs from a laserdisc master, the biggest joke in cinematic history.

And why, pray tell, would it mention those things? His mishandling of the franchise has not had near as much of an effect on the film industry as the things that he (or the people in his employ) did correctly. In fact, his mishaps haven't affected anyone or anything outside of the hardcore SW/Indy fanbase. That's how it is in general, really. For someone's mistake (as opposed to someone's success) to actually change the way things are done, it has to be a BIG FUCKING MISTAKE (like, I don't know, the Vietnam War).

Besides, who says he ruined Star Wars to being with? What if I like the changes, or the prequels, or Crystal Skull? Are you saying I'm wrong for liking them? On what grounds? Because they destroy the spirit of Star Wars? Can you prove that? Didn't think so. SkyJedi, you were amusing for a while (okay, I lied, you were always this annoying), but you really need to start talking with your head instead of your heart. Stick with the "Preservation" angle, because the "OT Purist" one isn't gaining you any friends or support. In fact, it's not too farfetched to say that keeping the Venometer cranked up to 11 is actually hurting the efforts of the more level-headed members of this forum. Look at them. Do they like the changes? No. But they don't deliberately go out of their way to remind the reader of that fact every single fucking time they post. And that's what you do, whether you think you do it or not. I've seen you take a completely unrelated conversation and twist it into an opportunity to take pot shots at Lucas, with absolutely no prompting whatsoever. It doesn't reflect well on your general state of mind, much less your social skills.

I guess it really does beat working in his father's stationery store.

skyjedi2005 said:

Does it have how George Lucas destroyed Star Wars with the special editions and prequels, or how he ruined Indiana Jones with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

Lucas did not change the world all he did was change the size of his money bin.

Does it mention how in 2006 he released the original films as non anamorphic bonus discs from a laserdisc master, the biggest joke in cinematic history.

That the only star wars film to ever flop was 2008 Clone Wars?

I cannot even believe they are Giving Him Credit for Pixar.  Look at how crap the clone wars animation is in comparison to Wall-E.

I am glad Lasseter looks to great people like hayao miyazaki for inspiration and not george lucas.

You really do need to give this rant a rest for a while...I might not appreciate everything he's had a direct or indirect input into, but he has set off a chain of events that has effected a lot of different things in the movie industry. Good or bad, there are a lot of people who will be saying they were either influenced by him or employed by him at some point in their career and will have benefitted from that association.

Pixar was part of Lucasfilm at one point. They were directly responsible for the Genesis Effect which also happened to be the first fully CG'd movie sequence (if I remember correctly). They were then sold off to Apple (I think) and the rest is history.

That article only proves that at least one other person shares your opinion. The same can be said of any given Scientologist. As far as whether Lucas "ruined" Star Wars or not (whatever that means), it doesn't prove a damn thing.

Johnboy3434 said:

skyjedi2005 said:

Does it have how George Lucas destroyed Star Wars with the special editions and prequels, or how he ruined Indiana Jones with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

Does it mention how in 2006 he released the original films as non anamorphic bonus discs from a laserdisc master, the biggest joke in cinematic history.

 

And why, pray tell, would it mention those things? His mishandling of the franchise has not had near as much of an effect on the film industry as the things that he (or the people in his employ) did correctly. In fact, his mishaps haven't affected anyone or anything outside of the hardcore SW/Indy fanbase. That's how it is in general, really. For someone's mistake (as opposed to someone's success) to actually change the way things are done, it has to be a BIG FUCKING MISTAKE (like, I don't know, the Vietnam War).

Besides, who says he ruined Star Wars to being with? What if I like the changes, or the prequels, or Crystal Skull? Are you saying I'm wrong for liking them? On what grounds? Because they destroy the spirit of Star Wars? Can you prove that? Didn't think so. SkyJedi, you were amusing for a while (okay, I lied, you were always this annoying), but you really need to start talking with your head instead of your heart. Stick with the "Preservation" angle, because the "OT Purist" one isn't gaining you any friends or support. In fact, it's not too farfetched to say that keeping the Venometer cranked up to 11 is actually hurting the efforts of the more level-headed members of this forum. Look at them. Do they like the changes? No. But they don't deliberately go out of their way to remind the reader of that fact every single fucking time they post. And that's what you do, whether you think you do it or not. I've seen you take a completely unrelated conversation and twist it into an opportunity to take pot shots at Lucas, with absolutely no prompting whatsoever. It doesn't reflect well on your general state of mind, much less your social skills.

I think Skyjedi is perfectly entitled to his feelings. Lucas took great art and mutilated it. Yes it's wrong to like the SE changes, they're an awful mutilation of great art. And the prequels were an insult. On various places on the net people are chased off or silenced for criticising what Lucas has done. This site is a refuge where people can air those criticisms. Please respect that.  

Johnboy3434 said:

That article only proves that at least on other person shares your opinion. The same can be said of any given Scientologist. As far as whether Lucas "ruined" Star Wars or not (whatever that means), it doesn't prove a damn thing.

It's obvious what it means. He mutilated the original films and then he put out sequels which were crap (the later two in particular -the first one had its good points but the later two were horrendous). Not only were the sequels crap, but they twisted Star Wars into something of a totally different more negative mentality. "Ruined Star Wars" is putting it thoroughly accurately. We don't need to prove anything, it's self-evident. And far more than one person shares the opinion. Heck, I think it's pretty obvious that many on this site do. 

I for one like skyjedi's posts and I wouldn't be surprised if there are others who do too. Just because you, Johnboy3434, don't like them doesn't mean everybody agrees with you.

Also, see here for some views on Lucas:

 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=george+lucas

Chewy72 said:

I can only answer this for myself, as he has ruined the OOT for me, simply because I can't watch the damn movies in any good quality anymore.

Now, see, if SkyJedi and VaderHayden would express themselves like that, I wouldn't have near as much of a problem with them as I do now. Problem is, they state their (undeniably strong) opinions about the changes and PT as though they were unequivocal facts. Honestly, that grinds my gears more than anything. People really need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. Whenever I make strong statements along the lines of what the two of them say, I always have the sense to preface it with an "I think" or an "In my opinion" or an "As far as I'm concerned".

And, God in Heaven, someone please tell me VaderHayden did not just say it was wrong to like a particular piece of art. That is... unbelievably ignorant. And when a conservative like me calls someone ignorant, you know there's a problem.

Read it again, dude. Lucas was all about Mos Eisley and Jabba from the get-go. The funny thing is, I totally enjoyed that version in the theater at the time. Throughout 1997-8, the original version and the special edition co-existed on tape and laser side by side on the shelves, and I never figured that one day the original (the thing that actually spawned all the stuff on that chart) would be treated worse than Meatballs 4.

I find it surprising that any Star Wars fan, whatever their preference is, doesn't feel the restored original has any value.

Johnboy3434 said:

Chewy72 said:

I can only answer this for myself, as he has ruined the OOT for me, simply because I can't watch the damn movies in any good quality anymore.

 

Now, see, if SkyJedi and VaderHayden would express themselves like that, I wouldn't have near as much of a problem with them as I do now. Problem is, they state their (undeniably strong) opinions about the changes and PT as though they were unequivocal facts. Honestly, that grinds my gears more than anything. People really need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. Whenever I make strong statements along the lines of what the two of them say, I always have the sense to preface it with an "I think" or an "In my opinion" or an "As far as I'm concerned".

Just because something's an opinion doesn't mean it can't also be fact. I'm not going to hypocritically pretend I don't really believe in my opinions by limiting them with an "I think". I believe in them. If you have a problem with that, well then that's your problem. Getting so worked up over the way posters express themselves is pretty petty.

And, God in Heaven, someone please tell me VaderHayden did not just say it was wrong to like a particular piece of art. That is... unbelievably ignorant. And when a conservative like me calls someone ignorant, you know there's a problem.

Not ignorant, simply taking a different view of art. I don't see art as being as purely subjective as some people. Yes it is wrong to like it when great art is mutilated.

You've accused me of being ignorant before. You need to stop assuming that people who have a different approach from you are ignorant or need to learn something. Maybe your approach isn't the only way. When it comes to opinions, I think it's rather more important to be tolerant of different approaches than to go around sticking "I think" before everything you say. The latter is just cosmetic, the former is something real.

I think it's understandable skyjedi wanting to say what he said on this thread. This thread was basically started to praise Lucas. For some people at least, it hurts to see Lucas praised after what he's done. And it's not like he's not praised enough over on some other sites.

But if we're in the business of making complaints, what about johnboy getting personal with me and skyjedi? Disagree with an opinion, disagree with a topic being brought up on a thread where you feel it doesn't belong? Fine. But getting personal is something else and doesn't have a place in civilized discussion. Just because somebody doesn't like somebody's opinion or how they express it doesn't license them to get personal and start calling people ignorant or whatever. That is far more seriously out of line than bringing up a topic some people don't want to hear about on a particular thread. I want to try to get on with people, but that's made difficult if some people are going to take the attitude that they're entitled to get personal if they don't like my posting style or views.

I'm sorry if I've bothered anybody. I don't mean to be a trouble to anybody. But I believe I have a right to express my opinions in the way that feels right for me and I really don't appreciate it when a poster descends to gratuitous aggression.

Vaderisnothayden said:

Just because something's an opinion doesn't mean it can't also be fact.

...Wow. There's honestly nothing I can add to this. It speaks volumes about not only your infantile mindset, but also your comprehension of the English language.

So it "hurts" you to see Lucas praised? Sweet Jesus, then why not go to any of the numerous threads that criticize him? They far outnumber threads like these. At least your comments would fit the general mood of the topic, there.

Vaderisnothayden said:

I think it's understandable skyjedi wanting to say what he said on this thread. This thread was basically started to praise Lucas. For some people at least, it hurts to see Lucas praised after what he's done. And it's not like he's not praised enough over on some other sites.

But if we're in the business of making complaints, what about johnboy getting personal with me and skyjedi? Disagree with an opinion, disagree with a topic being brought up on a thread where you feel it doesn't belong? Fine. But getting personal is something else and doesn't have a place in civilized discussion. Just because somebody doesn't like somebody's opinion or how they express it doesn't license them to get personal and start calling people ignorant or whatever. That is far more seriously out of line than bringing up a topic some people don't want to hear about on a particular thread. I want to try to get on with people, but that's made difficult if some people are going to take the attitude that they're entitled to get personal if they don't like my posting style or views.

I'm sorry if I've bothered anybody. I don't mean to be a trouble to anybody. But I believe I have a right to express my opinions in the way that feels right for me and I really don't appreciate it when a poster descends to gratuitous aggression.

There is a difference between praising a person for his more wide reaching influences on an industry/area than there is for constantly bashing him for making changes to his creation. This is more a thread congratulating the man on his achievements outside Star Wars - of course it would end up praising him as without Star Wars, we'd still be using sticky tape and wires in our SFX...

Lucas created ILM because there was no SFX industry capable of doing what he wanted at the time. This is a positive. That it also shot-off to create undoubtedly one of the greatest modern animation studios in Pixar is also another positive - and also proof that CGI can be done in a much more subtle way than Lucas' full-on 'I'm CGI pretending to be real but looking suspiciously CGI' method.

By all means express your opinion but have the mind to refine your arguments and be prepared to back them up rather than shoot crap all over the same thing again and again. Yes, the PT was a pile of steaming poo and Indy IV turned out to be less than anticipated - everyone knows it and has accepted it to a certain degree. However, it goes without saying that everyone still went to watch those movies (some more times than others) and bought them on DVD, adding to Lucas' bank balance whether they liked the movies or not.

I'm more than aware of Lucas' extreme shortcomings for the PT - he has an extremely stilted method for dialogue, is not able to fully integrate his CGI and live actors without making everything look like a giant video game and has a tendency to warp his original ideas to suit the need of the moment. However, you look at what he did achieve: ILM - the biggest SFX house at the moment and almost certainly the premier 'go to people' for most things SFX, THX - purveyors of all things aural for better quality (allegedly as I don't have a THX rated system to tell if there's an improvement!), Pixar - arguably now the biggest CG animation studio about and even bigger thanks to it's reverse takeover of The House of Mouse (Bolt being mostly produced by Pixar). Nevermind that he's generated billions of dollars in revenue for his own purposes - that's his own business and we have all contributed to that pot whether by choice or not.

Sorry if I've gone over the same ground of any others. Sorry if I've trodden on the toes of Lucas detractors...I'm always up for a bit of Lucas bashing, especially in his stilted dialogue areas and pointing out how someone like Adywan can infinitely improve a movie using less than interstellar equipment but give the man a bit of credit - he might have completely screwed up the Star Wars Saga and is in denial over it, but he has given the industry a lot more than he's destroyed.