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Post #336976

Author
TheBoost
Parent topic
Inconsistent use of "the force"
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/336976/action/topic#336976
Date created
18-Nov-2008, 8:00 PM
MaximRecoil said:

then we have to assume all the Jedi are complete morons. 

Yes, and it is the fault of the writer(s) of course.

Or we can assume these Jedi Masters actually know how to use the Force but that there are some practical limits to the Force, both in quanitifiable means (how heavy an object you can move) and practical means (why not make your lightsaber instantly fly back to you, why not use the force when flying a starfighter), even if the exact and specific limits are unclear.

BTW, the "exact and specific limits" are not unclear; at least not with regard to the size of an object that can be moved with telekinesis. The size doesn't matter, as stated by Yoda in ESB. I know you think Yoda was just making stuff up, but there is no evidence of this. Making a claim along the lines of: "Well if Yoda really meant what he clearly said, then that would mean the Jedi were morons," is not evidence that Yoda didn't mean what he said; it is simply "begging the question" on your part. 

1-Why doesn't Yoda just crush the entire Droid Army with his mind at Geonosis?

   a) There's some limit to his telekinesis.
   b) He's stupid.

2- How did Anakin drop his lightsaber?

   a) Maybe he was focused on holding on the the spaceship he was outside of.
   b) He's stupid.

3- Why didn't Qui-Gon just singlehandedly stop the invasion fleet of Naboo when he first saw them?

   a) Even as a Jedi master there are limits to what he could hope accomplish even with the Force as his ally.
   b) He's stupid.

4- Since he could knock a couple robots down with a force push, why couldn't Obi-Wan just push the buzzdroids (and all droid fighters) away from him during the space battle above Curoscant?
   a) Perhpas flying a fighter took too much concentration, or it would be too much effort to push all of those different droids.Or they were holding on too tight.
   b) He's stupid.

5- Why doesn't Vader just use the Force to stop the Falcon from escaping Hoth?

   a) He lacked that level of power.
   b) He's stupid.


6- Why didn't Luke just rip the cage door off with his mind,  pick Jaba up telekinetically and hurl him like a slobby bullett against the rancor?

   a) He couldn't
   b) He wouldn't... because he's stupid.

 

Is it easier to answer "B" to all of those questions than it is to think that Yoda's "size matters not" was not a statement of scientific fact that meant "capable of generating infinite numbers of kilowatts the Force is" but might have been a deeper statement regarding an aspect of the nature of an ill-defined pseudo-magical mystical force.

I never implied Yoda didn't mean what he said, it just don't think he meant it as a literal claim of unlimited telekinetic power. Or at the very least, perhaps size does not matter to the Force, but individual Jedi have limits, most apparently far less than Yoda.

I would argue that the films give us very little clear understanding of the nature of the Force. Why does an energy field generated by all living things grant telekinesis? Why is Watto immune to the Jedi mind trick just because he's greedy? Why does doing evil turn your eyes yellow? What is the nature of the 'haunted' cave on Dagobah? How can you move fast enough to block a blaster bolt but get caught with a little rope thing from Boba Fett?

But, if my options are either every Jedi in either trilogy are hopelessly stupid (including Yoda, who made the claim you're hanging this all on) or that the understanding of the Force you propose is somehow incorrect, Occam's razor points me fairly clearly to one of these options.

(ps. I wasn't 'begging a question'. At the very worst I might be accused of suggesting a false delimma.)