I have been thinking lately on how to watch the Star Wars saga i have all six films on dvd with both special editions and theatrical editions. Now do you watch them in order through episodes 1 - 6 or do you watch the Original Trilogy then Prequel Trilogy or do you just not watch the Prequel Trilogy at all. Which is your method to watching the Star Wars Saga?
If you're just watching them yourself, or with friends who have already seen all the films, it doesn't really matter which trilogy you watch first.
If you're showing them to someone else who has been generally unexposed, then it becomes an issue. Personally, I think the theatrical order of OT first, then PT makes more sense. "I am your father" is more of a surprise, and some of the smaller bits of humor in the PT have more resonance in hindsight than they do chronologically ("Anakin, some day you'll be the death of me.")
Another thing to consider is the focus of the story. OT is essentially Luke's story, with Vader being a supporting character that we learn more about when we see the PT later on. Watching the PT first, the saga now becomes Anakin's story, with Luke being a secondary player.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
Here are a couple more threads on the same subject:
Personally this is how i watch star wars.
Star Wars 1977
Empire Strikes Back 1980
Return of the Jedi 1983
I never watch the 2004 special edition or the prequels, much less the 1997 edit.
Star Wars was just star wars Episode IV is revisionist bullshit like calling raiders of the lost ark, Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost ark.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
skyjedi2005 said:Personally this is how i watch star wars.
Star Wars 1977
Empire Strikes Back 1980
Return of the Jedi 1983
Me too. ;-) (unless you wanna wedge the Holiday Special in there between SW and ESB)
i usually start from episode I and go in chronological order through VI
The calssic trilogy, and maybe then The Phantom Menace.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
my ideal veiwing experiance:
ANH 2006 UDT (Un-Destroyed Trilogy)
ESB: 2004 version
RotJ 2006 UDT
immediately after RotJ, the "Ave Maria" segment of Disney's "Fantasia", a much more fitting companion to the UDT than the "prequels".
TheDoctor1987 said:I have been thinking lately on how to watch the Star Wars saga i have all six films on dvd with both special editions and theatrical editions. Now do you watch them in order through episodes 1 - 6 or do you watch the Original Trilogy then Prequel Trilogy or do you just not watch the Prequel Trilogy at all. Which is your method to watching the Star Wars Saga?
Watch the original trilogy in original form through in order. If you want real Star Wars that's all you've got. But if you want inferior Star Wars spinoff you can watch The Phantom Menace. And if you want to make yourself sick you can watch Clones or Revenge, in any order you like. But whatever you do, don't watch the OT right after watching the PT, because that's Lucas's stupid "vision", which should never be indulged. The OT was NOT made to follow the PT and any claims to the contrary are just nonsense. A quick look at the structure of the OT is enough to prove it wasn't built to follow the films that came out in 99, 2002 and 2005.
Oh and the 1997 and 2004 versions are solely useful for studying how Lucas screwed up Star Wars. So it's best to watch whatever scene of them you want to study, not watch a whole SE film through like it was a legitimate version of the film.
The last two prequels are especially useful if you've swallowed something poisonous and you want to bring it back up. Just watch "Anakin" act like a pain the butt and Yoda be a pompous wanker and you'll be coughing up the toxic substance in no time. But be warned, watching the Anakin/Padme romance has been known to cause people to vomit forth a year's worth of meals. Use at your own risk.
I'm expecting my first kid soon, and have given this a lot of thought.
We can start with Star Wars and the Clone Wars CGI cartoon (maybe Phatom Menace). They're the most kid friencly, and shows a heroic Anankin, which exactly matches what's said in Star Wars.
When she's a bit older we can watch Empire and Jedi. Once she (shockingly) learns the truth about Vader, we can go back and watch Clones and Sith.
Honestly, it's been so long since I've watched the prequels that I've more or less managed to get myself to forget they exist.
It also helps that I've only seen RotS once, and that was in theatres. :D
TheBoost said:I'm expecting my first kid soon, and have given this a lot of thought.
We can start with Star Wars and the Clone Wars CGI cartoon (maybe Phatom Menace). They're the most kid friencly, and shows a heroic Anankin, which exactly matches what's said in Star Wars.
When she's a bit older we can watch Empire and Jedi. Once she (shockingly) learns the truth about Vader, we can go back and watch Clones and Sith.
Better off to just leave out all the newer stuff. They're not real parts of Star Wars, they're just the spinoff crap tacked on later on. The only stuff worth showing one's kids is the OOT. If they want to discover the other stuff when they're older that's their business. Certainly they should see the OOT before anything else, because that's what was made first. Coming at Star Wars in any other order is unnatural.
Vaderisnothayden said:Better off to just leave out all the newer stuff. They're not real parts of Star Wars, they're just the spinoff crap tacked on later on. The only stuff worth showing one's kids is the OOT. If they want to discover the other stuff when they're older that's their business. Certainly they should see the OOT before anything else, because that's what was made first. Coming at Star Wars in any other order is unnatural.
And who are you to say they're not "real" (whatever that means)? GL says they're part of the story, so they're part of the story. Really, you can hate them all you want, but to say they're not "real" Star Wars because you don't like them is incredibly ignorant. You don't get to dictate what is and is not Star Wars.
Anyway, as for the topic of this thread. My preferred order is
A New Hope
The Holiday Special
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Clone Wars (2003-2005)
Revenge of the Sith
The new Clone Wars movie raises more questions than it answers ("What happened to Ahsoka?", etc.), so I'd hold off until that storyline has a satisfactory conclusion before showing it to my kids.
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Johnboy3434 said:Vaderisnothayden said:Better off to just leave out all the newer stuff. They're not real parts of Star Wars, they're just the spinoff crap tacked on later on. The only stuff worth showing one's kids is the OOT. If they want to discover the other stuff when they're older that's their business. Certainly they should see the OOT before anything else, because that's what was made first. Coming at Star Wars in any other order is unnatural.
And who are you to say they're not "real" (whatever that means)? GL says they're part of the story, so they're part of the story. Really, you can hate them all you want, but to say they're not "real" Star Wars because you don't like them is incredibly ignorant. You don't get to dictate what is and is not Star Wars.
Who am I to say they're not real? Somebody who's put a lot of thought into the matter and thus has as much right to say so as anybody else. So what if GL says they're part of the story. Since he screwed up Star Wars so badly what he says no longer counts. He's demonstrated that he no longer understands Star Wars, so I'm certainly not going to rely on his judgement on what's real Star Wars.
No it's not "incredibly ignorant" to say they're not real Star Wars. It's perfectly reasonable. The OOT is what defines Star Wars and by that standard the prequels just aren't the real thing. My view is based on an understanding of the original films and of how the prequels are at odds with them, not ignorance. Nor do I just casually declare them not real Star Wars, I've put a lot of thought into what's real Star Wars and whether the prequels can be counted in that category.
Maybe you take offense at my challenging the word of the great Lucas, but Lucas is not God, he can be wrong, and with Star Wars he generally is these days. Plenty fans nowadays understand Star Wars better than Lucas. And no I don't get to dictate what is and is Star Wars, the OOT standard dictates that, I just follow it. Nor is this a matter of me just disliking the prequels. I like The Phantom Menace well enough, but I recognize how it doesn't fit with the old films.
People are entitled to judge a franchise or fiction by its own pre-established standards and when something is made that doesn't adhere to the unspoken rules of the franchise they are entitled to count it out, because it follows different rules and thus does not belong with the original material.
The prequels place themselves outside the core body of Star Wars. They are not real Star Wars because they do not have the mentality of Star Wars as established by the old films. They are not of the same material. They are something different, and inferior. Very definitely they are inferior spinoff material rather than the real thing.
It's a pity Lucas didn't make them in the years immediately following the release of the OT, because if he had maybe they would have been made in the mentality of Star Wars and would have been carried along on that same creative wave that led to the first films, making them quality. But by the time Lucas got around to making the prequels he'd moved beyond the mentality of Star Wars (as demonstrated drastically by the ill-fitting changes he made in the Special(ly Lame) Editions).
The prequels failed mostly in execution of ideas and not the ideas themselves.
Lucas said going in when he started work in 1994 on the phantom menace that they would be tonally different than the original trilogy. Darker than the middle act, at the time he was still considering making 7-9. The middle act of course being IV-VI. IV-VI followed heroes and a basic heroes journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in The Hero with a thousand faces.
Episodes 1-3 would be the opportunity to show a hero's fall from grace and turn to evil. The real problems george had was making anakin liked and cared for by the audience. The hero is usually proxy for the viewers fears and desires, the viewer or reader if it is a book goes on the journey the hero does.
Anakin's story should have had more resonance and focus because he is a mirror onto the fact that all human beings have the potential for evil within them. You can reject evil and renounce it as Luke did or Like Anakin embrace it.
Luke Skywalker was easy to identify with as an everyman.
The audience cares for Characters Like Luke Skywalker in the star wars trilogy or Frodo Baggins in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy. Lucas failed at connecting Anakin to his audience.
He was going in the right direction in episode 1 with a slave boy the audience felt somewhat sympathetic to, but by Episodes II and III that whole angle was forgotten. Almost like Lucas was in a rush just to get the damn thing done and off his back. We know what happened with the original trilogy when Lucas wanted to rush things, was a drop in quality between the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
The making of the films more kiddie and mainstream was a sellout. Thematicly the themes touched on Vader in the oot and the prequels were very interesting. Man Machine Relationships, The Desire for Power to do good and in the end being corrupted by it. Had he delivered that dark epic he promised with 1-3 i don't think people would complain.
At the same time he deserves some slack at least as far as episode 1 goes. That was a damn good script and movie for a guy who returned to Star Wars after 16 years, plus 22 years since he directed a film. Star Wars in 1977 being his last. In any Craft whether it be music, filmaking, or novel writing you cannot take twenty years off and not expect to get rusty. He needed more help writing and directing these movies. The friends he asked turned him down nobody wanted to do this project, so he was forced into writing them and directing them himself.
He could have looked outside his little intimate circle of friends at the expense of his zone of comfort and he would have had to loose some control over the movies and step back and take a producers role. He had far too much invested emotionally, and financially to leave this universe and its characters up to someone else.
Was there a possibility of bringing in some professionals who were fans of the oot to direct and write episodes II and III and make them better films, yes. But there is also the possibility they would be worse than what Lucas delivered.
Don't forget Steven Spielberg did uncredited work on episode III. Supposedly he worked with the computer dudes who did the mustafar duel scenes. Which is funny because Spielberg was originally offered Jedi but could not do it because of being a dga member. He was also offered star wars again sometime during the making of the prequels and turned it down, rumored Lucas asked him to do Episode II. I know for a fact that he asked Ron Howard to direct episode 1. That is the funny part Lucas ended up directing all 3 prequels films when he never intended to direct any of them, and if need be only 1.
He told Spielberg his ideas for the prequels and Steven visited Skywalker ranch. He told George his ideas were great on episode 1 behind the scenes footage.
Then watch Indiana Jones IV and it is clear Spielberg has not lost only his touch but also his judgement on what constitutes a good idea, or who are good actors.
Even Coppolas works have gotten worse as the years go on. Scorceses work not as good either but they gave him an academy award for the departed which was a far cry from the brilliance of taxi driver or raging bull. Spielberg has been Lucky that he made more good films and more evenly balanced between good and terrible films than Lucas. Even the Lousy films he has made have had their moments like War of The Worlds, and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
Speaking of Spielberg he is a lot like Lucas now producing more films than he directs. He handed off trial of the Chicaco 7 to Ben Stiller, Jurassic Park IV to Joe Johnston. And after he phoned in Indiana Jones IV decided to Take a full year off before making Lincoln, in 2010. Also Producing Transformers Revenge of the Fallen and Ghost in the Shell. He was supposed to direct one of the tintin films but no info is showing up on imdb. Spielberg and Lucas best years are behind them. Though audiences are more willing to give Spielberg a pass than Lucas, most have already forgiven Indiana Jones IV or blamed it on Lucas.
Lucas fans and critics are almost impossible to please and are more willing than ever to tear him to shreds.
Lucas not doing his little films but producing More star wars tales with Clone wars and the live action tv show. Also producing that Tuskagee Airmen movie i forgot the name of, and will Produce Indiana Jones V is he can get a script together and Spielbergs Schedule is free in 2009. But then he won't be free again until 2012.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
skyjedi2005 said:
The prequels failed mostly in execution of ideas and not the ideas themselves.
I think some of the ideas are pretty wonky too. But when I speak of the mentality being wrong, I'm talking about a lot more than ideas. Like sticking in cartoon characters like Boss Nass and Jar Jar into Star Wars -that's a very different mentality than the original films, it's a different way of looking at his imagined reality. There were silly things in the OT but nothing that looked like it was out of a disney movie. Sticking that stuff in the films is seeing his imagined reality as being less real and believing in it less. As soon as you see these Disney rejects in the Phantom Menace you know you're in a different universe from the old films.
Lucas said going in when he started work in 1994 on the phantom menace that they would be tonally different than the original trilogy. Darker than the middle act, at the time he was still considering making 7-9. The middle act of course being IV-VI. IV-VI followed heroes and a basic heroes journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in The Hero with a thousand faces.
See, tonally different I have no problem with. You can have something tonally different and still be in the same general mentality. But Lucas shifted us to an alternate reality in the prequels, a reality in which Disney refugees ran riot, the Jedi were jerks, Yoda was a pompous ass and Darth Vader was never a personality of substance. A universe in which important battles happen without feeling and everything is imagined in a pale washed-out spirit to match the pale washed-out light it's filmed in. It's a whole different version of the Star Wars universe and when examined in full, all elements and areas studied, it demonstrates itself to have a drastically different mentality from the old films. And a pompous self-congratulatory mentality in which we're constantly SHOVED towards seeing particular moments and things as SIGNIFICANT and Cool in way that just didn't happen in the old films. Most significantly, there's a shallowness and insincerity to the emotions in the films, and often just a plain lack of feeling. This is an alternate Star Wars universe that often is just plain not alive. You know, we're told how the Sith embrace passion, so feeling is associated with bad, well, to me it looks like the films have a mentality of seeing feeling as bad and thus embracing numbness. Let's avoid feeling in these films, because feeling might turn the audience to the dark side. Let's have good clean Jedi-ishly bland films. There was such a sympathetic human spirit to the old films. Yes the prequels were supposed to be darker, but that doesn't mean they should abandon the humanity that was an essential part of Star Wars.
And getting Anakin portrayed that way by Hayden Christensen, seriously -that's a revisionist view of Anakin. Hayden played Anakin as shallow and lacking depth of humanity or substance of personality. Contrast with Sebastian Shaw's dignified sympathetic performance. In the old films you got the feeling Anakin was once a worthwhile guy and had substance of personality. Hayden played him as being without that. And Darth Vader was certainly no wimp, but Hayden played Anakin as a wimp.
Lucas fans and critics are almost impossible to please and are more willing than ever to tear him to shreds.
All too many fans and critics are all too easy to please. You get all these fans who accept everything Lucas does no matter what awful stuff he does to Star Wars, like a dog that likes being kicked. And the critics, a good dose of them, thought ROTS was ok despite it being, realistically speaking, one of the worst films of all time.
Lucas not doing his little films but producing More star wars tales with Clone wars and the live action tv show.
Yeah, does the torture never end? It's like not only has he trampled Star Wars into the earth, now he has to crap all over it too.
Was there a possibility of bringing in some professionals who were fans of the oot to direct and write episodes II and III and make them better films, yes. But there is also the possibility they would be worse than what Lucas delivered.
I don't know if it's humanly possible to do worse than ROTS.
Lucas failed at connecting Anakin to his audience.
Once he got Hayden to do THOSE performances, the character was screwed. How could you connect with a character like THAT?
We know what happened with the original trilogy when Lucas wanted to rush things, was a drop in quality between the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
See this is where I disagree. I love ROTJ. Overall it may be a more faulted film than ESB, but it has stuff in it that's brilliant. I don't think there's a big drop in quality.
The making of the films more kiddie and mainstream was a sellout.
I think it was more than just sellout. I think it was a whole shift in mindset.
I watch it in this order:
OOT
PT
Enhanced OT with Adys Revisited
but eventually it will be
PT then Adys revisited OT, I wouldn't want the PT messed with much, especially in the amounts that are said to be.
