Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Edit Suggestions — Page 9

Doctor M said:

I've been trying to figure out why this movie doesn't work.

There are action scenes that should be good, but aren't very intense. The plot is mostly ok, with a few flubs, but I could live with that. Even Mutt is quite tolerable (I expected Anakin II).

I want to blame Lucas for a lame alien plot, but you know, it does sort of work in the time period it takes place.

I want to blame Spielberg for failing to articulate the story in the white-knuckle manner we are accustomed, but the action seems to move along well.

I want to blame Harrison Ford for agreeing to Lucas & Spielberg's crap, and looking generally jowly, but I was never afraid he was going to break a hip.

I've decided the blame rests squarely with Janusz Kaminski. His shot composition is terrible. He frequently fails to emphasize the action on the screen, almost like he didn't know where his camera was pointing. For example: the tree cutting blades, the door being blown at Area 51, Mutt jumping vehicles, etc.

It's obvious whoever was responsible could not compose action shot to save their life.

Also, who else is there to blame for the high dynamic range/light blooming? I'd SAY the cinematographer is responsible, but I suppose with so much green screening it could have been Spielberg.

Spielberg MAY have been responsible for the problems in this film, but I don't believe that after all these years Spielberg forgot how to direct.  I'm thinking if we see an Indy 5 it'll have a different DP... or it will suck too.

That being said, in the example scenes I mentioned (and several other), an edit would benefit from strategic cropping/resizing to shift the focus to the action.

Going from an HD source would make this possible, and could fix a lot of the dull action beats.

I agree with you generally. I believe Kaminski is the same reason JP2 didn't work. Dean Cundy did the first one and it's FAR superior.

The editing however is very slow and plodding, there are too many silly jokes, at the expense of good jokes.

But there are also moments that are story related.

For example, When Indiana Jones was getting the Russians to empty their shotgun shells I was excited, expecting this to be a brilliant way to disarm the Russians, so when they go to shoot him all they get is a "click" and they have to reload, allowing Indy to escape... Alas, nope.

The other big problem was that every time a character was picked up, they stayed for the journey.

Raiders is the most superior because the story picks and and puts down characters as needed. Sallah for example never comes to the island. What exactly was the point in having Ox alive and well? Why couldn't he have died in Peru leaving a mystery? Or Indy arrives just before he dies?

Also what was the point in Mac? At least Belloq was clear, but Mac serves no real purpose at all. You could cut Mac out of the entire movie and it wouldn't make any difference at all.

Similarly, why is Spalko a woman? What's the point from a story point of view? There's no sexual tension, and Marion never gets jealous. It could have been a man and the story wouldn't have changed at all.

These are things that prevent the movie from being great, even with a better DP and edit, imo.

cyclades said:

Doctor M said:

I've been trying to figure out why this movie doesn't work.

There are action scenes that should be good, but aren't very intense. The plot is mostly ok, with a few flubs, but I could live with that. Even Mutt is quite tolerable (I expected Anakin II).

I want to blame Lucas for a lame alien plot, but you know, it does sort of work in the time period it takes place.

I want to blame Spielberg for failing to articulate the story in the white-knuckle manner we are accustomed, but the action seems to move along well.

I want to blame Harrison Ford for agreeing to Lucas & Spielberg's crap, and looking generally jowly, but I was never afraid he was going to break a hip.

I've decided the blame rests squarely with Janusz Kaminski. His shot composition is terrible. He frequently fails to emphasize the action on the screen, almost like he didn't know where his camera was pointing. For example: the tree cutting blades, the door being blown at Area 51, Mutt jumping vehicles, etc.

It's obvious whoever was responsible could not compose action shot to save their life.

Also, who else is there to blame for the high dynamic range/light blooming? I'd SAY the cinematographer is responsible, but I suppose with so much green screening it could have been Spielberg.

Spielberg MAY have been responsible for the problems in this film, but I don't believe that after all these years Spielberg forgot how to direct.  I'm thinking if we see an Indy 5 it'll have a different DP... or it will suck too.

That being said, in the example scenes I mentioned (and several other), an edit would benefit from strategic cropping/resizing to shift the focus to the action.

Going from an HD source would make this possible, and could fix a lot of the dull action beats.

 

I agree with you generally. I believe Kaminski is the same reason JP2 didn't work. Dean Cundy did the first one and it's FAR superior.

The editing however is very slow and plodding, there are too many silly jokes, at the expense of good jokes.

But there are also moments that are story related.

For example, When Indiana Jones was getting the Russians to empty their shotgun shells I was excited, expecting this to be a brilliant way to disarm the Russians, so when they go to shoot him all they get is a "click" and they have to reload, allowing Indy to escape... Alas, nope.

The other big problem was that every time a character was picked up, they stayed for the journey.

Raiders is the most superior because the story picks and and puts down characters as needed. Sallah for example never comes to the island. What exactly was the point in having Ox alive and well? Why couldn't he have died in Peru leaving a mystery? Or Indy arrives just before he dies?

Also what was the point in Mac? At least Belloq was clear, but Mac serves no real purpose at all. You could cut Mac out of the entire movie and it wouldn't make any difference at all.

Similarly, why is Spalko a woman? What's the point from a story point of view? There's no sexual tension, and Marion never gets jealous. It could have been a man and the story wouldn't have changed at all.

These are things that prevent the movie from being great, even with a better DP and edit, imo.

Doctor M: I believe you're right. This should be done in the fan edit(s) if possible.

Cyclades: About your "guns clicking" idea, can this be done in the fan edit? It would be a much more interesting scene that way.

As for the cutting out characters, this may seem ridiculous, but what if Oxley and possibly Mac were cut out of the fan edit? First of all, is it possible? Second, would it leave gaps in storyline and continuity?

cyclades said:

Similarly, why is Spalko a woman? What's the point from a story point of view? There's no sexual tension, and Marion never gets jealous. It could have been a man and the story wouldn't have changed at all.

You had me with all points until that one. Why should she not be a woman? Surely her gender is irrelevant in the role she plays?

Histeria said:

cyclades said:

Similarly, why is Spalko a woman? What's the point from a story point of view? There's no sexual tension, and Marion never gets jealous. It could have been a man and the story wouldn't have changed at all.

 

You had me with all points until that one. Why should she not be a woman? Surely her gender is irrelevant in the role she plays?

I don't mean it to sound sexist, that wasn't my point. The point I was trying to make is that every aspect of a character is exploited for story purposes in really great movies. In This one it wasn't. She was asexual. She didn't show any interest in Indy, Mutt, hell she didn't even show any interest in Marion. I know in real life it doesn't matter, but in drama it can add depth. Take Belloq being smitten with Marion, or Elsa being with Indy and his Dad. These both added aspects of jealousy.

As Spalko was presented, it could have been a man playing the role and it wouldn't have mattered. The strengths of being a female were not exploited.

So, would it be possible to actually remove Ox from the movie?

The Golden Idol said:

So, would it be possible to actually remove Ox from the movie?

I doubt it, not without some significant CGI to paint him out of some shots.

jones1899 said:

Things are pretty slow, so apparently Laser is EXTREMELY busy with work. I know how that is. 

I swear if I could I'd pay that dude's salary just so he could finish his edit. 

Oh and yeah, unfortunately removing Ox would be insanely difficult.

But if it were possible, how would it affect the story? I wouldn't miss the character, but how would we find out what happened to Ox?

Is there any way to change it so that Ox is actually Abner Ravenwood, who Marion lied to Indy about being dead?

JohnGreenArt said:

Is there any way to change it so that Ox is actually Abner Ravenwood, who Marion lied to Indy about being dead?

 How would that help the story?

Yeah, the cutting of these roles would cause gaping plot inconsistencies - they're not cameo or minor characters, in the sense that they do actually impact on the plot. The best route to go would be to trim any offensive instances of these characters, but avoid a severe cutting of the characters.

I'm not sure if I can finish it until then though... as you've correctly assumed, I'm quite busy at work right now. I'll try to find some time though. Yet, there are a lot of suggestions in this thread that are REALLY difficult, if not impossible to realize, so I won't deal with all of them.

jones1899 said:

Some of these folks have even held off buying or renting the DVD, waiting to see the one true version of the film.

 I'm actually one of those people.

Hope someone is gong to have a stab at this soon!  I'd have a go, but I'm spending all my processor time right now on running G-force's GOUT script.  This film COULD be made to work a little better, probably placing it somewhere between TOD and LC on the "Not Crap-O-meter".  Couple of thoughts, not sure if I've missed these in the thread or not.

A)14.) Minor, but Ox's "Dad?" in the end in reaction to Mutt isn't really needed. Cut right to "somewhere your grandpa.."

Isn't it explicitly stated that the reason Oxley stopped talking to Indy is because he left Marion knocked up and alone?  Shouldn't this be GONE for sure?

B)Was just watching the Rifftrax last night, and the debriefing scene feels like it needs trimming.  The whole "WHAT WAS IN THE BOX?!" exchange is redundant, and makes little sense after establishing that Indy has already examined it (that WHY they captured him in the first place!) and has told Spalko he knows what they're looking for.  Also, he knows about the wreckage, the magnetic shroud, and the "mutilated remains", why the hell would he keep asking what was in the box?  How about cutting right before he goes off on that gruff little hissy fit, at the end of the shot where the chunky agent is accusing him of helping the KGB break into the warehouse in "My country.".  Cut directly to the general walking in on the proceedings.  "Who was that woman?" is also redundant, since she's introduced herself, and bragged about her accomplishments already, but it's proabably neccessary to put what meagre meat there is on the character.

C)Ford's read of "I should never have doubted you, my friend." is superior in the on-set audio from the BTS featurette, I'd vote for replacing that line as well as "Part-Time".  Although I think I'd actually vote against switching "Not as easy as it used to be.".  Sure, the read is great, but it works in the trailer becuase the tone of the sequence is a little different (as it exists anyways).  In the film, it sounds like it would be out of place, as the sequence is just Indy and Mac throwing lines back and forth, not a single, world-weary take on the whole situation.  Come to think of it though, could that "we've been through worse" nonsense be cut in favor of the simplicity of the exchange from the trailer?  None of the whole "Vennesberg..." "...we had guns..."  "I still am young!" banter really sits well anyways.  Is there any way to go from "This ain't gonna be easy"  "Not as easy as it used to be." to "Put your hands down will, you?  You're embarrassing us."?  Maybe after a cut-away to the jeep pulling up?

D)Don't suppose there's any way to incorperate any of the introductory dialogue with Marion from the featurette?  The exchange of "Why are you so mad at me?  How long ya got?!" feels so much more natural than what ended up onscreen, and does the same story work more efficiently.

E)Yeah, the cinematography is awful.  Beyond pallette, exposure, and filters, composition is lazy, lacks much kinetic energy and focus.  Just look at the chase in college town; just tightening the FOV on a few of those shots would have made it a little more dynamic.  At any rate, the CC attempts sop far look very promising.

Anyways...just stream of thought.

Is there any progress with this project, Laser? Or has it been put on (temporary, I hope) hold?

Also, who (besides Laser) is working on a fan edit of KOTCS?

Yeah, it's on hold right now. I don't think it's dead.

So, is anyone doing a fan edit of KOTCS besides Laser?