MeBeJedi said:And Tiptup.....dude...... You're going to give yourself an aneurysm.
And what's up with the myriad of manufactured memories of me? They are as interesting to read as they are self-serving for you. You're pretty good at playing the shame game.
Hehe, I'm in no danger of getting an aneurysm (as far as I can tell), but I do use up a lot of time talking to you guys. Any aggression I express is usually a technique I use to combat people who I perceive of as being overly hostile in some way.
Other than that, shame is something I'm very concerned about in life. I'm convinced people should generally allow shame to affect them; the world would be a better place. However, I don't play "games" with it.
I honestly did like reading your posts in the past. You have a good degree of knowledge in many areas, your sense of humor is good, and you argue your positions well. I was shocked, however, by how much a simplisticly-mocking, know-it-all prick you seemed to become in this thread, particularly when I saw the very weak knowledge you were expressing along with your criticism for others. Clearly you've calmed down with this new post of yours, so I feel no need to discuss this further. :-\
MeBeJedi said:
Yes, I know "trickle-down" economics isn't the official name, but it's the name that was used to sell it to the public, and the description of the intent is apt, even if it doesn't work. I know a great deal more than I'm putting in my posts, but I'm not going to write an eff'ing essay on this stuff for a Star Wars board.
Yes, I generally do not wish to put down an essay on a Star Wars board either, but when a smart person like you accuses me of being a brainless idiot, when you should know better, you'll excuse me for feeling I should respond in depth. Now that you've got me going in this thread I can't seem to quit. :P
Oh, and I find it very strange that you typed up such large portions of your text to attack and deride people like me over your weak command of the facts, but then you run away from a little bit of typing when you might have to apply thoughtful discussion to those same issues. It's just a little odd. :)
MeBeJedi said:
I did want to address this, though, because I thought it was very funny.
I seriously can't believe that you're such a brainless drone that you'd actually believe Democrats have done nothing dirty to help them win any recent elections or win current debates. What a skewed, upside-down world you must live in. :)
See, the problem is, I didn't say that! What I DID do was contrast your little offhand remark to an actual event.
Allow me to break it down for you:
"Yes, a few, rare, low-level Republicans"
Elizabeth Dole is not "low-level".
"do shitty things when nobody's looking."
She aired 3 state-wide TV ads that were blasted by everyone nationwide. She later publicly stated that she stood by her ads.
"But, does MeBeJedi believe that every last low-level Democrat is a perfect little Sunday school student by comparison?"
The opponent against whom she created these ads for was a Sunday School teacher.
Now, whether you honestly didn't get it, or chose not to get it for the sake of your argument, I couldn't help but find humor in the old line that "Truth can be stranger than fiction". At no time whatsoever, however, did I use this one event to draw a sweeping conclusion about Republicans or Democrats in general.
I absolutely "got" what you tried to say in your last post as it related to the way you were trying to reinforce your original argument (which I still believe you were doing in some sense). That is what I focused on in my last reply to you because that is what was most important to me. I'll explain this further in a second, but let's address this side issue of yours first.
I'll admit, I didn't even read that section (of what you were saying) in any kind of detail. I was skimming and completely overlooked the part where you were trying to pick apart that statement of mine. Not only was that statement of mine unimportant to what I was trying to argue, but the ways you were trying to challenge the statement are illogical to me and so I hope you'll forgive me if I missed them. :)
First: My "low-level Republicans" phrase was aimed at any shameless douchebags that would lie to people about when to vote and shit like that. I didn't imagine that whatever Dole did, while possibly a stupid and wrong thing for her to do, was anyhere near to being as stupid and wrong as what you initially described. So, yes, according to my thoughts, as you go up in the chain of command in a party, naturally bad behavior will still exist, but generally it won't be as bad (average people don't allow it). The fact that you quoted my one little statement was a fact that went by without any notice from me. Understandably, then, your reason for specifically pointing out Dole was something that didn't even come close to my mind.
Second: I don't like Elizabeth Dole, and as a stupid, socialist-Republican senator I see her as being rather "low-level" anyways. I guess that's not really accurate, but it's how I regarded her when I saw your post and another reason why I totally missed your nit-picking and tried to get back to my original point. If she was being a jerk in the recent election, that doesn't bother me at all. I have no automatic allegience to Republicans (I just think they better reflect my values to a tiny degree and will support them so long as they might do the right thing).
Thirdly: I didn't even click on any of the links you provided and didn't look into what Ex-Senator Dole had supposedly done (I just assumed, if she actually did it, that it wasn't as bad as what was done by the guys I described as "low-level" earlier). I just skimmed a few words, saw a link and simply accepted your accusation as an automatic premise for my argumnent because even its truthfulness mattered nothing to me. Now actually looking at her ad though, while definitely wrong and dumb, I think my earlier sentiment is vindicated since it's not as wrong and dumb as the other people you mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMzX_EAfwyc
So, to return to the argument I made in my last post, I was assuming that you were simply trying to offer more evidence for the original argument (the one I first tried to correct). And, please, don't try to deny the original argument you first tried to make: you mentioned how horrible Republicans were with their evil tactics and you were using that as a reason why Democrats were elected by contrast. The unspoken part of your argument, then, is that Democrats generally weren't doing anything nasty or wrong in comparison with Republicans and that somehow resulted in Republicans losing. That is absolutely absurd, and even if you didn't precisely think that in your mind, that's still what you were originally arguing a few posts back. When you posted the Elizabeth Dole stuff, I simply assumed you were trying to defend your weird view of the world further (with yet another example) and didn't even bother to read it closely as a result.
At any rate, I find it "funny' that you're now accusing me of putting words in your mouth when the statement I made in my last post was actually a genuine and legitimate inquiry that you refused to answer from my last post before that. Nowhere did I deny or confirm your nit-picking of my one phrase (in fact I didn't even see it), but just put a question to you that was still relevant in light of the earlier context. So, I would argue that you just put words in my mouth since you had to make a clear leap with my wortds to assume I was putting words in your mouth. . . . or, whatever. ;)
MeBeJedi said:
Furthermore, it really doesn't matter much anymore, because:
Bad news: The nation's in a shambles (Which apparently Bush had nothing to do with. I guess the only thing worse than a complicit president is an ignorant one, like when he claimed to he hadn't heard anything about $4-a-gallon gas just before gas mysteriously hit $4.) Still, whether by accident or design, the cumulative effect of his administration has led to....
Good news: Obama won. I can sleep well at night, knowing that a very intelligent and driven man will be taking the reins pretty soon. If this gives you nightmares, then that's just too bad. I'm pleased as punch.
And with that, I'm out.
Bush had a lot to do with our bad economy. If you actually read my earlier post, you'd know that I don't deny that at all. What I do deny is that Bush used any conservative policies to bring us here. I defy you, or anybody else to point out a single conservative principle he used to supposedly "ruin" our economy (he was actually a careless fool who ignored what both Reagan did and accomplished). I also defy any of you to mention a single "deregulation" that lead to the housing crisis (there isn't even ONE).
As for your other point, Obama doesn't scare me in the least. Did you get that impression from my last post? :)
I just hope Obama does the right things (for the sake of the country) and doesn't repeat the same mistakes Bush, the Republicans, and his fellow Democrats made the last few years. Therefore, I suppose you could say I fear government mistakes hurting our economy, but, even then, this country will survive in the long run and i sleep just fine.
Oh, and I'll be the first person to admit that Obama is definitely intelligent in many ways. However, facts are still facts and wisdom is wisdom, and no amount of intelligence can change that. If people refuse to look into truth and logic on their own, and simply rely upon what political parties tell them, they have stopped doing their duty as human beings.