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Info Wanted: What are the original sources of the movies that we want DVD transfers from?

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 (Edited)

I don’t know a lot about film, but to my knowledge, the versions of the movies we want Lucasfilm to transfer on to DVD is the 35mm versions, cleaned up and properly transferred in anamorphic widescreen. They call them the nagatives, I don’t know what those are. Is negative just another name for film? I don’t know what processes are involved in cleaning up the films. I always get confused what “digitally restored and remaster” means. Is remastering the part where the film is cleaned up? For example, particles of dirt are removed from each frame. Besides raping a classic story, is the digitally restored part where it is transfered to a digital source and then errors are removed, changes are made, stories are ruined, with photo/videoediting software? Am I correct about this?

I’m sure Lucasfilm has an archive of various versions of the movies on film. Now there is some speculation that Lucas himself might’ve destroyed all the OOT film prints. Is the reason why we want the OOT transferred from 35mm prints to DVD because film holds the most image detail capacity? I am confused why 35mm and not the 70mm prints? Why is 35mm the better quality prints than the 70mm? You’d think larger film would hold more image storage capacity.

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Well, 70mm is only better if the film was shot on 70mm stock to begin with.  Most films are shot on 35 and then blown up to 70 for select theaters.

As far as all the digital cleanup/restoration stuff - it's not a matter of if it's done, it's a matter of to what extent it's done.  The '97 SE's started out as just a simple restoration and re-release, and look what happened there.  (For the record, I personally don't completely hate the SE's as a whole, just not thrilled with certain specific changes which have been discussed ad infinitum here and elsewhere.)

What we need is literally someone like Ady doing the transfer...someone who is doing it because they WANT to, not because it's just the next item on their workload checklist.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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I'll try to address your post as individual points:

- We want them to present DVD releases that accurately represent what someone would have seen in the movie theater in 1977, 1980, and 1983, respectively.

- A "negative" is what is recorded to film when it is run through the camera.  This is then duplicated to make a "positive."

As an example, the left would be the negative, and the right would be the positive:

Therefore, the negative isn't suitable for projection since it isn't true-to-life colors, while the positive is.  However, when the image is duplicated, quality is lost.  This includes blowing up to 70mm - quality *is* lost, however minimal.

So, in order to get the most possible visual information, you would want to transfer the original negative at high resolution.

- As far as cleaning up films goes, there's physical cleanup, that is removing dirt and scratches from the physical film by chemicals or whatever else is available, and then digital cleanup, in which the scanned image is "cleaned" in the computer, which usually involves subtle alteration of the image.  For instance, if a speck of dirt is on frame B, but frame A and frame C don't have dirt, a chunk of the image from either frame A or C will be copied and pasted over the dirt in frame B to "erase" it, although that's not truly what was originally there.

Then there's noise reduction.  With the advent of digital cinematography, the idea of "film grain" has become associated with noise or dirt, when in reality it's part of the chemistry of the film itself and is MEANT to be there.  There are methods of removing grain, but they all amount to the same thing: blurring the image and re-sharpening it, which, of course, removes detail, and can cause distortions in the image like "edge enhancement," or little halos around sharp lines (see the Episode I DVD for this).

So we basically want care taken in the cleanup process - do as much physical cleanup as is possible without causing damage to the film, then use a fine, careful touch during digital cleanup.

- Remastering.  Mastering something is making a "master" copy from which to make copies.  Re-mastering something is making a new master copy in a different form.  So "digitally remastered" just means a new digital transfer was made, not necessarily that any careful work was put into it.  It is, however, a widely thrown-around word that really has no meaning anymore.

- Restoring is, generally, making something better resemble its original version.  This, too, is a term that can be used broadly.  A film can be "restored" in such a way that means damage done to it over the years has been fixed, or deleted scenes can be "restored" into a film, or a film can be "restored" to its director's "original vision."

- Finally, as Ziz said, if a film was shot on 35mm, use 35mm elements to transfer it.  For "Blade Runner," the film was shot with 35mm, but effects sequences were done in 70mm - for the recent "Final Cut," the original 70mm elements for the effects sequences were found and used for those sequences.

"Star Wars," however, was shot on 35mm entirely, and blown-up to 70mm the way some films are blown-up to IMAX (which is, technically, 70mm) today.  When you blow something up, you distort it, no matter what.  So its best to take it from the original elements, not blow-ups just because they happen to have the capacity to contain more information.

 

I hope I've answered your questions - it's almost 2 AM and I'm rather tired, but can't sleep.

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I'm curious... although a 70mm copy would be "lossy" compared with a 35mm original, I wonder if a telecine scan of a good enlarged 70mm copy might turn out better anyways.  The scanning process itself should be more effective when the source is physically larger.  Or am I missing something?

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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has anyone had access to a 70mm trailer or anything else, that a comparison could

be made?

 

obviously getting a 70mm print of a film would be very hard (although i would

have thought the same of 16mm and 35mm before)

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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The scans that one website used to have, (taken from the collectible 70mm frames) looked awfully good.

It would be a miracle for a complete 70mm Star Wars print to show up that wasn't turning pink though.

I don't think there are a lot of transfer houses out there that can even handle 70mm. It wasn't even until the early 90's that big format films like 2001 got a decent video transfer, because apparently the proper gear had not been around before that!

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

It's interesting, I was watching one of the SE trailers last night, and I noticed that the explosion of the death star didn't have that ring around it......it makes me wonder about other unaltered shots and how many of them are really 'destroyed' or whatever LFL is claiming.

Puggo said: I'm curious... although a 70mm copy would be "lossy" compared with a 35mm original, I wonder if a telecine scan of a good enlarged 70mm copy might turn out better anyways.  The scanning process itself should be more effective when the source is physically larger.  Or am I missing something?

I would think that a 70mm copy would be better than a 35mm copy from the same source because the grain structure would be smaller, but probably a 35mm original would be preferable because there would be one less layer of grain from being duped. (?)

ChainsawAsh said: "Star Wars," however, was shot on 35mm entirely, 

But the FX shots were done in VistaVision (35mm film running sideways to create a 70mm format). So technically, the FX shots are in 70mm.

 

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It might creat a frame similar in size to 70mm running vertically, but it's still 35mm, the way IMAX is still 70mm even though it's on its side.  But if you could get the original elements of those, the actual VistaVision negatives of those shots, then you would want to transfer the shots that utilized that format from those, much like the Blade Runner 70mm effects shots being transferred separately from the 35mm shots.