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role of C3PO in new Ep I & II
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Yeah..3PO was the biggest pile of shit in 1 & 2, especislly 2. All that slap-stick bullshit, really pissed me off.
Dunno about Chewie, haven't seen it yet obviously!
Also, spot the mistake in 2??
3PO says someting like, just before his head comes off, "I wonder what happened to poor R2? He's always getting himself into trouble"
Err..Excuse me, but hoe the fuck would you know. You've only just started your adventure together!!!
Man
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Originally posted by: HotRod
3PO says someting like, just before his head comes off, "I wonder what happened to poor R2? He's always getting himself into trouble"
Err..Excuse me, but hoe the fuck would you know. You've only just started your adventure together!!!
Man
That's a damn good point, HotRod. Never thought of that before.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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hotrod i think the exact same thing everytime i head that dude... but you put it so much better than i ever could have!!
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Anakin built C-3PO??? How utterly ridiculous. I guess Shmi just took him with her whenever Watto sold her?
Isn't C-3PO a protocol droid, well versed in all the customs, fluent in over 6,000,000 forms of communication? Wouldn't it have made more sense storywise for Threepio to be in the diplomatic service, either on Naboo, with the Jedi, or even with the Senate?
Of course, Owen doesn't recognize him in ANH. Oh yeah, different color scheme, yeah, that's right... sure.
One would think that an R2 unit would be easier to build from scratch than a humanoid protocol droid, but that's just my opinion.
C-3PO's lines in the OT are still all pretty funny and come from the character and make sense (especially in ANH and TESB, ROTJ has a few groaners, but I'll forgive them) However, the whole putting his head on the battledroid was such a pathetic farce: "This is such a drag"??? (I'll bet GL laughed his head off when they came across that part in the first cast script reading, though I am sure the rest of the cast and crew just started inspecting the creases in their pants.)
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Originally posted by: R2-G2
Next to Anakin, C-3PO was the most poorly conceived character in the prequel trilogy.
Go on then Shakespeare, how was Anakin poorly conceived?
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Anakin built C-3PO??? How utterly ridiculous. I guess Shmi just took him with her whenever Watto sold her?
Why not? It was Shmi's legal property.
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Isn't C-3PO a protocol droid, well versed in all the customs, fluent in over 6,000,000 forms of communication? Wouldn't it have made more sense storywise for Threepio to be in the diplomatic service, either on Naboo, with the Jedi, or even with the Senate?
No. Anakin found the frame of the droid, he didn't build that.
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Of course, Owen doesn't recognize him in ANH. Oh yeah, different color scheme, yeah, that's right... sure.
Would you recognize a car that a friend of yours drove if you saw it 20 years later in a junkyard with a different coat of paint on it?
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C-3PO's lines in the OT are still all pretty funny and come from the character and make sense (especially in ANH and TESB, ROTJ has a few groaners, but I'll forgive them) However, the whole putting his head on the battledroid was such a pathetic farce: "This is such a drag"??? (I'll bet GL laughed his head off when they came across that part in the first cast script reading, though I am sure the rest of the cast and crew just started inspecting the creases in their pants.)
Yeah cuz you were there, right? How do you even know that Lucas (and not Hales) wrote that part?
- Trentobi
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QuoteBecause we see him as a young child, and nothing but a young child, and a brat at that. There is no sense in his characterization that he's the one "who will bring balance to the Force" except for a high midichlorian count. None of his ACTIONS in the film demonstrate ANYTHING that can be construed as "greatness" or even hinting that Anakin has the makings of a great Jedi. We are to assume that Anakin will be a great Jedi, because... well, Qui-gon thinks so. Simply not believeable. Oh, and "Yipee!!!!"
Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi:
Go on then Shakespeare, how was Anakin poorly conceived?
QuoteSince when do "slaves" have property?
Anakin built C-3PO??? How utterly ridiculous. I guess Shmi just took him with her whenever Watto sold her?
Why not? It was Shmi's legal property.
QuoteIt still doesn't change that the character provides absolutely no function in the story at all (either Episode I or II). There has not been a single thing that C-3PO has done in the story that is of any merit or substance. At least in Jedi, he was essential for talking with the Ewoks.
Isn't C-3PO a protocol droid, well versed in all the customs, fluent in over 6,000,000 forms of communication? Wouldn't it have made more sense storywise for Threepio to be in the diplomatic service, either on Naboo, with the Jedi, or even with the Senate?
No. Anakin found the frame of the droid, he didn't build that.
QuoteI would if his name was C-3PO, oh yeah... right, Owen didn't get the name when he bought C-3PO in ANH and didn't recognize him in the gold paint. Despite the fact that he had the same voice. Ah... clever.
Of course, Owen doesn't recognize him in ANH. Oh yeah, different color scheme, yeah, that's right... sure.
Would you recognize a car that a friend of yours drove if you saw it 20 years later in a junkyard with a different coat of paint on it?
QuoteWhen it comes to stupid lines in the prequel Star Wars films, there is one continous person involved, and that is George Lucas. His name is on the script. If he didn't write it, he's responsible for keeping it in, because, its OH, SO FUNNY!!!
C-3PO's lines in the OT are still all pretty funny and come from the character and make sense (especially in ANH and TESB, ROTJ has a few groaners, but I'll forgive them) However, the whole putting his head on the battledroid was such a pathetic farce: "This is such a drag"??? (I'll bet GL laughed his head off when they came across that part in the first cast script reading, though I am sure the rest of the cast and crew just started inspecting the creases in their pants.)
Yeah cuz you were there, right? How do you even know that Lucas (and not Hales) wrote that part?
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Originally posted by: R2-G2
Go on then Shakespeare, how was Anakin poorly conceived?
Because we see him as a young child, and nothing but a young child, and a brat at that. There is no sense in his characterization that he's the one "who will bring balance to the Force" except for a high midichlorian count. None of his ACTIONS in the film demonstrate ANYTHING that can be construed as "greatness" or even hinting that Anakin has the makings of a great Jedi. We are to assume that Anakin will be a great Jedi, because... well, Qui-gon thinks so. Simply not believeable. Oh, and "Yipee!!!!"
Anakin piloted his pod in a winning race... which humans cannot do, strictly speaking. That was stated in plain English during the film. He was tested by the Jedi Council and demonstrated a sufficient enough skill in the Force (describing the objects in Mace Windu's holopad) that the Jedi Council all agreed that he had "exceptional skill"... even if he was too old to begin training as a Jedi. Since he was just a kid in TPM, we got to see him be an innocent, selfless kid... which makes him growing up into Darth Vader all the more heart-wrenching since he was such a good kid once. If Anakin had come out of the womb as a bloodthirsty maniac, why the hell would the Jedi have accepted him?!?! And moreover, why would the audience care about it? They'd say "that sicko was a demon right from the start!" He basically gave in to the Dark Side when he was first born, it kinda takes the sting out of the whole transformation.
As for that "Yippee" stuff... kids say dumb stuff all the time. It's soooo wizard!!
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Would you recognize a car that a friend of yours drove if you saw it 20 years later in a junkyard with a different coat of paint on it?
I would if his name was C-3PO, oh yeah... right, Owen didn't get the name when he bought C-3PO in ANH and didn't recognize him in the gold paint. Despite the fact that he had the same voice. Ah... clever.
It's been a while since I've watch ANH, but did Owen ever actually hear C-3P0's name? Anyway, even if he did, again, it had been 20 years since he'd seen that droid. He'd probably owned countless droids in his life. Why would he care about this particular one? Especially when he never had any reason to believe he'd owned it before? Or Hell, maybe he DID recognize it and chalked it up to Galactic Weird Shit and went on with life.
- Trentobi
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Originally posted by: obi-wan trentobi
It's been a while since I've watch ANH, but did Owen ever actually hear C-3P0's name? Anyway, even if he did, again, it had been 20 years since he'd seen that droid. He'd probably owned countless droids in his life. Why would he care about this particular one? Especially when he never had any reason to believe he'd owned it before? Or Hell, maybe he DID recognize it and chalked it up to Galactic Weird Shit and went on with life.
- Trentobi
Or, perhaps, in an attempt to further hide the truth about Luke's past, Owen just suppressed his recognition of the droid's identity entirely. It is obvious that Owen and Beru know the truth about Anakin. Why the hell would you want his kid to find out anything about that horrible fate and risk Luke going down the same path. If I was playing the role of legal guardian to my brother's kid and my brother had lived Anakin's life, I would not be telling that kid anything. All Luke knew was that his father was a famed starfighter pilot. Why blow the illusion for the kid? Eventually, when the time is right, you will tell him the truth. However, it just seems that Owen and Beru waited too long. Once you've moved beyond the "right time", it's hard to go back. And, then, well, they were killed. Kinda hard to tell him from beyond the grave.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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Why does everybody try and make the OT with the PT.
We all know it should be the other way around.
Just face it!
George Lucas made the whole fucking thing up (OT) as he went along!!
I dunno man. Star Wars is changing before my eyes, and I'm talking about the greatest trilogy ever. It's all changing, the story, the effects. Everything.
All these new reasons why the charactes we've watched for years, well some of us anyway, all these characters now seem to have other reasons for the way they acted.
And whoever said up there the thing about 3PO being a diplomat for Padme, or whatever it was, is right.
IMO I think we should have seen R2 and 3PO walking along a corridor for the fisrt time. Just like the first time we saw them in ANH. Doing there thing. This Anakin making 3PO is bollocks. The Galaxy all of a sudden got a lot smaller!!
It's starting to get to me!!!
Just face it!
George Lucas made the whole fucking thing up as he went along!!
There!!!
Got that off my chest!!!
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Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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QuoteAll this "look at Owens face" and "Look at Lukes reaction to whatever" is all bullshit man.
Why does everybody try and make the OT with the PT.
We all know it should be the other way around.
Just face it!
George Lucas made the whole fucking thing up (OT) as he went along!!
I dunno man. Star Wars is changing before my eyes, and I'm talking about the greatest trilogy ever. It's all changing, the story, the effects. Everything.
All these new reasons why the charactes we've watched for years, well some of us anyway, all these characters now seem to have other reasons for the way they acted.
And whoever said up there the thing about 3PO being a diplomat for Padme, or whatever it was, is right.
IMO I think we should have seen R2 and 3PO walking along a corridor for the fisrt time. Just like the first time we saw them in ANH. Doing there thing. This Anakin making 3PO is bollocks. The Galaxy all of a sudden got a lot smaller!!
It's starting to get to me!!!
Just face it!
George Lucas made the whole fucking thing up as he went along!!
There!!!
Got that off my chest!!!
Word to that HotRod. If Lucas had the events of episodes 1 and 2 clearly in his mind since 1976, then I've got a real life size Death Star to sell you. Yes, Lucas is a constant promoter of revisionist history, talking about the PT as if that is what he had in mind all along, which is ridiculous. Trentobi, before you jump to GL's defense, I don't need to read Lucas' mind, I just look at what he has said. His assertion about Greedo shooting first and his desire to make Jabba a big fat lizard instead of a big fat old man in ANH as things that he had planned to do all along are not corroborated by anything other than Lucas' self-serving statements.
I don't even think Lucas had it in his mind that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father until he started to write the story of Empire Strikes Back. I doubt he even made up his mind about Leia being Luke's sister. Though to hear Lucas tell it now, Star Wars is always about a guy and his twins.
QuoteSo Anakin can drive a pod-racer around really fast, on the same rationale, just because Jeff Gordon can win the Daytona 500 doesn't mean he'd make a great Delta Force commando. As for his "tests", oh wow, him reading the cards ("I don't know... a couple of wavy lines?"); could Lucas have come up with something more imaginative than that for a test? And why did they even bother if they already knew he was "too old", which is preposterous. If boy-child Anakin is "too old", then what is Luke? George just wanted to have lots of cute kids. The Jedi younglings in Episode 2 are another attempt to completely remove any gonads out of Star Wars, how saccharine.
Trentobi writes: "Anakin piloted his pod in a winning race... which humans cannot do, strictly speaking. That was stated in plain English during the film. He was tested by the Jedi Council and demonstrated a sufficient enough skill in the Force (describing the objects in Mace Windu's holopad) that the Jedi Council all agreed that he had "exceptional skill"... even if he was too old to begin training as a Jedi. Since he was just a kid in TPM, we got to see him be an innocent, selfless kid... which makes him growing up into Darth Vader all the more heart-wrenching since he was such a good kid once. If Anakin had come out of the womb as a bloodthirsty maniac, why the hell would the Jedi have accepted him?!?! And moreover, why would the audience care about it? They'd say "that sicko was a demon right from the start!" He basically gave in to the Dark Side when he was first born, it kinda takes the sting out of the whole transformation.
So, do Jedi kidnap kids to train into Jedis, and Jedis are not allowed to marry. That life must suck.
QuoteStop being an apologist. Poor Jake Lloyd, he deserved better than that. I feel equally sorry for Daniel Logan ("Get him dad!!!" Get him!!! FIRE!!!")
As for that "Yippee" stuff... kids say dumb stuff all the time. It's soooo wizard!!"
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Originally posted by: R2-G2
Word to that HotRod. If Lucas had the events of episodes 1 and 2 clearly in his mind since 1976, then I've got a real life size Death Star to sell you.
He said he had the films outlined. Major events, major characters, etc. I can believe that. I seriously doubt that he ever intended to even film the prequel trilogy, until around 1980 or so wherein he changed his mind. He claims to have been waiting for technology to catch up to his vision, but I personally think he was procrastinating.
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Yes, Lucas is a constant promoter of revisionist history, talking about the PT as if that is what he had in mind all along, which is ridiculous. Trentobi, before you jump to GL's defense, I don't need to read Lucas' mind, I just look at what he has said. His assertion about Greedo shooting first and his desire to make Jabba a big fat lizard instead of a big fat old man in ANH as things that he had planned to do all along are not corroborated by anything other than Lucas' self-serving statements.
I don't even think Lucas had it in his mind that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father until he started to write the story of Empire Strikes Back. I doubt he even made up his mind about Leia being Luke's sister. Though to hear Lucas tell it now, Star Wars is always about a guy and his twins.
Lucas knew from the start that Vader was Luke's father. Darth Vader = "dark" and "father" in some other language. He knew Luke had a twin, but wasn't sure if it was Han or Leia. This is kinda backed up by ESB in a way. I'm speculating that he wanted Luke's twin to be Han since... Luke and Leia kissed in ESB.
I don't buy Lucas' statements about Greedo either, for the record. I read somewhere that he attributed Han shooting first in the original ANH as an "editing error"... which I don't believe for one second. It was completely in character for Han to shoot Greedo first in that bar. To say (or do) anything else is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
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Trentobi writes: "Anakin piloted his pod in a winning race... which humans cannot do, strictly speaking. That was stated in plain English during the film. He was tested by the Jedi Council and demonstrated a sufficient enough skill in the Force (describing the objects in Mace Windu's holopad) that the Jedi Council all agreed that he had "exceptional skill"... even if he was too old to begin training as a Jedi. Since he was just a kid in TPM, we got to see him be an innocent, selfless kid... which makes him growing up into Darth Vader all the more heart-wrenching since he was such a good kid once. If Anakin had come out of the womb as a bloodthirsty maniac, why the hell would the Jedi have accepted him?!?! And moreover, why would the audience care about it? They'd say "that sicko was a demon right from the start!" He basically gave in to the Dark Side when he was first born, it kinda takes the sting out of the whole transformation.
Quote
So Anakin can drive a pod-racer around really fast, on the same rationale, just because Jeff Gordon can win the Daytona 500 doesn't mean he'd make a great Delta Force commando.
Are you being this dense on purpose? For the purposes of a story, only Anakin can pilot podracers. If I can accept the other conventions of Star Wars, this is no problem.
Quote
As for his "tests", oh wow, him reading the cards ("I don't know... a couple of wavy lines?"); could Lucas have come up with something more imaginative than that for a test? And why did they even bother if they already knew he was "too old", which is preposterous. If boy-child Anakin is "too old", then what is Luke? George just wanted to have lots of cute kids. The Jedi younglings in Episode 2 are another attempt to completely remove any gonads out of Star Wars, how saccharine.
Luke was trained as a Jedi during less-than-ideal circumstances. Yoda and Obi-Wan were both prepared to overlook his age in exchange for him bringing Vader and Palpatine down. It was an emergency situation.
How would you have written Anakin's testing scene? Mind you, Anakin can't really jump around yet, move objects, lightsaber duel, etc. He'd already had the midichlorian test and won a race he wasn't even supposed to be biologically capable of competing in. And anyway, to humor Qui-Gon, the Council decided to test Anakin. Anakin didn't prove himself until later in the film... and only when Obi-Wan threatened to train him outside of the Council, if necessary. So knowing all that, the Council probably agreed to let Obi-Wan train Anakin to keep Anakin under some kind of control.
Jedi were trained in the ways of the Force starting shortly after their birth. The scene with Bear Clan in AOTC didn't really bother me. It was brief, the kids were mostly window-dressing and they weren't anywhere near as annoying as one minute worth of Ewoks. Besides, that scene showed Yoda doing something else besides sitting around on his butt in the Jedi Temple.
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As for that "Yippee" stuff... kids say dumb stuff all the time. It's soooo wizard!!"
Stop being an apologist. Poor Jake Lloyd, he deserved better than that. I feel equally sorry for Daniel Logan ("Get him dad!!!" Get him!!! FIRE!!!")
Star Wars has crappy dialog. Always has, always will. TPM and AOTC were more of the same.
- Trentobi
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QuoteHe could have made the films in the late 80's or early 90's, but I think he was so burned out he wanted to do anything but Star Wars. Saying FX tech wasn't up to snuff is just an excuse, but its a valid one to justify his long wait if he wants. He just wasn't ready to take the plunge back then. The wait was fine with me, unfortunately, I hated walking out of The Phantom Menace going "I waited sixteen years for this???". I can't for the life of me believe that Lucas really had Jar Jar in mind way back when he first typed "A Long Time Ago..."
He said he had the films outlined. Major events, major characters, etc. I can believe that. I seriously doubt that he ever intended to even film the prequel trilogy, until around 1980 or so wherein he changed his mind. He claims to have been waiting for technology to catch up to his vision, but I personally think he was procrastinating.
QuoteMaking Leia "the other" and Luke's sister was probably the right decision. I just couldn't see Han filling in that role.
Lucas knew from the start that Vader was Luke's father. Darth Vader = "dark" and "father" in some other language. He knew Luke had a twin, but wasn't sure if it was Han or Leia. This is kinda backed up by ESB in a way. I'm speculating that he wanted Luke's twin to be Han since... Luke and Leia kissed in ESB.
QuoteAt last, we totally agree. That's good... you've taken your first step into a larger world...
I don't buy Lucas' statements about Greedo either, for the record. I read somewhere that he attributed Han shooting first in the original ANH as an "editing error"... which I don't believe for one second. It was completely in character for Han to shoot Greedo first in that bar. To say (or do) anything else is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
QuoteSo Anakin is good at racing podracers, and if I recall correctly, it was said that no human had won the pod race. Not that it was completely genetically impossible for a human to win. Also, there's nothing that Anakin DID that really stood out as particularly indicative of his "greatness"; he never used the Force or did anything that was noteworthy in regard to Jedi potential.
Are you being this dense on purpose? For the purposes of a story, only Anakin can pilot podracers. If I can accept the other conventions of Star Wars, this is no problem.
QuoteWhich totally blows the whole "he's too old" argument completely out of the water. Jeez, Anakin is like a 4th or 5th grader, hardly a sage old timer. I still find the notion that the only acceptable Jedi candidates are babies to be completely preposterous. If that's the case, the Sith should find ample recruits... "Hey, can't be a Jedi? say you're TOO OLD? Well come on over to the Sith, we'll show you what the Force is all about!"
Luke was trained as a Jedi during less-than-ideal circumstances. Yoda and Obi-Wan were both prepared to overlook his age in exchange for him bringing Vader and Palpatine down. It was an emergency situation.
QuoteWell, since you asked, I would never have written Anakin as a 9-10 year old. He would have at least been a teenager, around Luke's age, but probably just a little younger. I would have had Obi-Wan discover his Jedi potential inadvertently, such as witnessing Anakin doing stuff naturally that took Obi-Wan and other Jedi years of study and practice to learn. A little scene like when Luke first practiced against the remote in ANH, only Anakin would fare much better, making it all look easy. The Jedi would look at him with a sense of awe and fear. So powerful, but untrained, volatile, a wildcard, Obi-Wan convinces the others that they should take him and make him a Jedi, or risk him falling into the hands of the Dark Side.
How would you have written Anakin's testing scene? Mind you, Anakin can't really jump around yet, move objects, lightsaber duel, etc. He'd already had the midichlorian test and won a race he wasn't even supposed to be biologically capable of competing in. And anyway, to humor Qui-Gon, the Council decided to test Anakin. Anakin didn't prove himself until later in the film... and only when Obi-Wan threatened to train him outside of the Council, if necessary. So knowing all that, the Council probably agreed to let Obi-Wan train Anakin to keep Anakin under some kind of control.
Oh, and Anakin didn't "prove" himself in ANY way at the end of TPM. Everything he did at the end was by accident. He took off, accidentally, he got into the fight, accidentally, he got shot, accidentally, he went into the ship and just happened to get into sensitive area, accidentally, then he fires at the battledroids, but ends up hitting the reactors (I guess)... again, accidentally
There wasn't a single thing Anakin did ON PURPOSE during that part of the film. It was all by accident. Please, compare the scene there with Luke's trench run. Everything Luke did was deliberate and with purpose ("Luke, you switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?" - "Nothing. I'm alright!") not... "Let's try rolling, that's a good trick!"
QuoteTPM, AOTC and some of ROTJ yes, but ANH and ESB have great scripts, the lines work and are delivered with conviction and believability within the context of their characters. I defy you to name groaners from those two films.
Star Wars has crappy dialog. Always has, always will. TPM and AOTC were more of the same.
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Originally posted by: R2-G2
He said he had the films outlined. Major events, major characters, etc. I can believe that. I seriously doubt that he ever intended to even film the prequel trilogy, until around 1980 or so wherein he changed his mind. He claims to have been waiting for technology to catch up to his vision, but I personally think he was procrastinating.
He could have made the films in the late 80's or early 90's, but I think he was so burned out he wanted to do anything but Star Wars. Saying FX tech wasn't up to snuff is just an excuse, but its a valid one to justify his long wait if he wants. He just wasn't ready to take the plunge back then. The wait was fine with me, unfortunately, I hated walking out of The Phantom Menace going "I waited sixteen years for this???". I can't for the life of me believe that Lucas really had Jar Jar in mind way back when he first typed "A Long Time Ago..."
Yeah, he specifically cited Mace Windu as one character that the outline didn't account for. Again, it was apparently pretty broad and general as a story. And only certain major characters were developed. I don't think he could've captured the finer points of Coruscant or other such places in the late 80's or 90's, but the basic story probably could've been covered (even if the scale of everything wasn't quite right). Pre-production on TPM began in 1994, so Lucas obviously spent quite a lot of time with it.
Quote
I don't buy Lucas' statements about Greedo either, for the record. I read somewhere that he attributed Han shooting first in the original ANH as an "editing error"... which I don't believe for one second. It was completely in character for Han to shoot Greedo first in that bar. To say (or do) anything else is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
At last, we totally agree. That's good... you've taken your first step into a larger world...
I'm just pushing the BS button because it seems appropriate in this instance.
Quote
Are you being this dense on purpose? For the purposes of a story, only Anakin can pilot podracers. If I can accept the other conventions of Star Wars, this is no problem.
So Anakin is good at racing podracers, and if I recall correctly, it was said that no human had won the pod race. Not that it was completely genetically impossible for a human to win. Also, there's nothing that Anakin DID that really stood out as particularly indicative of his "greatness"; he never used the Force or did anything that was noteworthy in regard to Jedi potential.
Luke was trained as a Jedi during less-than-ideal circumstances. Yoda and Obi-Wan were both prepared to overlook his age in exchange for him bringing Vader and Palpatine down. It was an emergency situation. Desperate times, desperate measures and other stuff.
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Which totally blows the whole "he's too old" argument completely out of the water. Jeez, Anakin is like a 4th or 5th grader, hardly a sage old timer. I still find the notion that the only acceptable Jedi candidates are babies to be completely preposterous. If that's the case, the Sith should find ample recruits... "Hey, can't be a Jedi? say you're TOO OLD? Well come on over to the Sith, we'll show you what the Force is all about!"
There's two ways you can look at this. 1- Under ideal circumstances back in the hey-day of the Jedi during the Republic era, the Jedi trained new Jedi basically from infancy and they wouldn't rarely change their practices. However, once all but two of them have been killed by the bad guys, they're willing to overlook their standard training policies and have Yoda give Luke a crash course in Jedi-ology in the space of about two months since the fate of the entire galaxy is at stake, even though (under ideal circumstances) Luke would never have been trained as a Jedi. The Council calling Anakin "too old" when he was 10 years old kind of underscores the seriousness of the situation when Luke is trained at almost 22 years of age. 2- Lucas is a hack.
The best evidence leads me to put my faith in #1.
Quote
How would you have written Anakin's testing scene? Mind you, Anakin can't really jump around yet, move objects, lightsaber duel, etc. He'd already had the midichlorian test and won a race he wasn't even supposed to be biologically capable of competing in. And anyway, to humor Qui-Gon, the Council decided to test Anakin. Anakin didn't prove himself until later in the film... and only when Obi-Wan threatened to train him outside of the Council, if necessary. So knowing all that, the Council probably agreed to let Obi-Wan train Anakin to keep Anakin under some kind of control.
Well, since you asked, I would never have written Anakin as a 9-10 year old. He would have at least been a teenager, around Luke's age, but probably just a little younger. I would have had Obi-Wan discover his Jedi potential inadvertently, such as witnessing Anakin doing stuff naturally that took Obi-Wan and other Jedi years of study and practice to learn. A little scene like when Luke first practiced against the remote in ANH, only Anakin would fare much better, making it all look easy. The Jedi would look at him with a sense of awe and fear. So powerful, but untrained, volatile, a wildcard, Obi-Wan convinces the others that they should take him and make him a Jedi, or risk him falling into the hands of the Dark Side.
No offense, but there's absolutely nothing creative about any of that. Lucas's method worked, for me anyway, because Anakin was fairly brimming with power, but he was also a good person who wanted to do good things and had the type of innocence only childhood can bring.
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Oh, and Anakin didn't "prove" himself in ANY way at the end of TPM. Everything he did at the end was by accident. He took off, accidentally, he got into the fight, accidentally, he got shot, accidentally, he went into the ship and just happened to get into sensitive area, accidentally, then he fires at the battledroids, but ends up hitting the reactors (I guess)... again, accidentally
The Force was with Anakin. He knew enough about piloting to do well enough when R2 deactivated the auto-pilot. Anakin's expertise was piloting, mechanics and such things. The Force used Anakin. In ANH, Luke used the Force. The situations were pretty different.
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There wasn't a single thing Anakin did ON PURPOSE during that part of the film. It was all by accident. Please, compare the scene there with Luke's trench run. Everything Luke did was deliberate and with purpose ("Luke, you switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?" - "Nothing. I'm alright!") not... "Let's try rolling, that's a good trick!"
Luke received actual instruction from Obi-Wan, which is more than Anakin had to work with. Plus, Luke was just older, thus he might've been more inclined to pick things up quicker.
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Star Wars has crappy dialog. Always has, always will. TPM and AOTC were more of the same.
TPM, AOTC and some of ROTJ yes, but ANH and ESB have great scripts, the lines work and are delivered with conviction and believability within the context of their characters. I defy you to name groaners from those two films.
"I was going to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!!"
"Mos Eisley spaceport: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villai
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QuoteExcessive time investment into the script doesn't appear to be something that George Lucas could be accused of. A court would throw that out for "lack of evidence"
Pre-production on TPM began in 1994, so Lucas obviously spent quite a lot of time with it.
QuoteI select answer #2, case closed. Lucas likes kids and as such feels the need to dumb things down.
There's two ways you can look at this. 1- Under ideal circumstances back in the hey-day of the Jedi during the Republic era, the Jedi trained new Jedi basically from infancy and they wouldn't rarely change their practices. However, once all but two of them have been killed by the bad guys, they're willing to overlook their standard training policies and have Yoda give Luke a crash course in Jedi-ology in the space of about two months since the fate of the entire galaxy is at stake, even though (under ideal circumstances) Luke would never have been trained as a Jedi. The Council calling Anakin "too old" when he was 10 years old kind of underscores the seriousness of the situation when Luke is trained at almost 22 years of age. 2- Lucas is a hack.
The best evidence leads me to put my faith in #1.
QuoteBig surprise, you didn't like it. Considering your low standards and lack of taste, its not really a surprise. If Lucas's method works better for you, there's nothing I can do about that. If my idea was not creative, then what is Lucas'?
No offense, but there's absolutely nothing creative about any of that. Lucas's method worked, for me anyway,
QuoteHow was Anakin "brimming with power", sure he was a good kid, but there was no sense of foreboding anger or potential evil that came across in his performance or in the script. Just because Qui-Gon says he has a high midichlorian count or Yoda says there is much anger in him, doesn't demonstrate ANYTHING! There is no evidence to support Yoda's statement. "show, don't tell"
because Anakin was fairly brimming with power, but he was also a good person who wanted to do good things and had the type of innocence only childhood can bring.
QuoteAgain, the film produces no evidence to back up your assertion. What you have proposed is just another fan theory. If this was the case, why did no one mention it in the film "Hey, Anakin must've used the Force, it must be!"?
The Force was with Anakin. He knew enough about piloting to do well enough when R2 deactivated the auto-pilot. Anakin's expertise was piloting, mechanics and such things. The Force used Anakin. In ANH, Luke used the Force. The situations were pretty different.
QuoteAgain, all Anakin did was make a few preposterously lucky shots. Was the Force at work there? Just because you say it is doesn't make it so. The scenes in the film do not produce any reference to back up your opinions.
Luke received actual instruction from Obi-Wan, which is more than Anakin had to work with. Plus, Luke was just older, thus he might've been more inclined to pick things up quicker.
QuoteThose were the two groaners from ANH? That's the best you could come up with?
"I was going to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!!"
"Mos Eisley spaceport: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." (who the hell talks like that?!)
I'll get back to you with more on this after I watch the trilogy again.
- Trentobi
Luke's statement was perfectly within character and consistent with his other statements in the film regarding his friends leaving and his desire to go to the Academy. I fail to see anything wrong with that line.
Obi-Wan was describing Mos Eisley, and it turns out his comment was appropriate. Again, where is the problem with the line?
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Originally posted by: R2-G2
I select answer #2, case closed. Lucas likes kids and as such feels the need to dumb things down.
If you can't see the difference between Anakin being trained as a Jedi during the hey-day of the Republic to be just-another-Jedi and Luke being trained during the galaxy's darkest hour for the sole purpose of fighting Vader and the Emperor, you're a complete idiot and this conversation is over.
All I can do is thank God you're not writing the new Star Wars scripts. Your idea was a fanboy cliché showing absolutely no imagination and zero character motivation.
- Trentobi
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QuoteThere is no need to get uncivil here. Just because I've made you a little angry by making you defend your beloved prequels.
If you can't see the difference between Anakin being trained as a Jedi during the hey-day of the Republic to be just-another-Jedi and Luke being trained during the galaxy's darkest hour for the sole purpose of fighting Vader and the Emperor, you're a complete idiot and this conversation is over.
QuoteYou asked what how I would have written it and I told you in basic terms, we were only talking about the test of Anakin's Jedi ability. Where were Anakin's character motivations and where is the imagination in a blood test or a souped-up version of the Zener ESP card test? I haven't written a movie script based on the idea, its just an idea and one that I feel is superior to what was in the film, but hey, its just my opinion. I could go into it more and talk about the character motivations, but obviously, you do not want to have that discussion. I know you don't like me, but dismiss the idea on its merit and not because you have a personal distaste for me because I am disagreeing with you I wish you would put as much thought into analyzing the quality of the prequel films as you do into savaging my idea on the sole basis of trying to insult me.
All I can do is thank God you're not writing the new Star Wars scripts. Your idea was a fanboy cliché showing absolutely no imagination and zero character motivation.
oh, I'm still waiting for those groaner lines from ANH and ESB.